General discussion

So much for teachers' unions hurting education!

Charter schools lag their public peers.

>> Independently run, publicly financed charter schools perform no better than comparable public schools, long-awaited federal data suggested Tuesday.

Long considered a ticket out for students in poor public schools, charter schools have proliferated nationwide and are among reforms favored by the Bush administration. In Washington, D.C., one in four students attends one.

But Tuesday's report, which for the first time compares the performance of students in charters with that of public school peers in similar neighborhoods, finds that charter school students lag slightly.

The data show, for instance, that charter school students in 2003 were several points behind their counterparts in both reading and math in fourth and eighth grades. Standardized math scores in urban charters also lagged, but reading scores were comparable. <<

Reactions were excpectedly biased towards the viewpoint of the reactor, with the AFT calling for curbing the growh of charter schools, which divert resources from traditional public schools. While "Proponents say the study relies on flawed 2003 data," "raw 2005 data, posted on the education statistics center's website, show similar results."

As usual, it makes no sense to reinvent the wheel!

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!
Discussion is locked
Reply to: So much for teachers' unions hurting education!
PLEASE NOTE: Do not post advertisements, offensive materials, profanity, or personal attacks. Please remember to be considerate of other members. If you are new to the CNET Forums, please read our CNET Forums FAQ. All submitted content is subject to our Terms of Use.
Reporting: So much for teachers' unions hurting education!
This post has been flagged and will be reviewed by our staff. Thank you for helping us maintain CNET's great community.
Sorry, there was a problem flagging this post. Please try again now or at a later time.
If you believe this post is offensive or violates the CNET Forums' Usage policies, you can report it below (this will not automatically remove the post). Once reported, our moderators will be notified and the post will be reviewed.
- Collapse -
well we all see how well your

government run schools do!
why cany jimmy read, write or add!

and look at the collages they have to re teach them

- Collapse -
Yes, let's keep the inner city kids in failing public

schools. Let them eat cake. We don't need no stinkin improvements!

- Collapse -
So much for draining funds from the public school system

Let's not try anything new, status quo is A-OK. I'm not sure ANYTHING about Washington DC should be used to make generalizations about the nation as a whole. This appears to be what is being done here. Wonder what is allegedly flawed about the 2003 data. Would be interesting to know.

- Collapse -
Couple points...

The NCES study did a poor job comparing economic status between the charter school and public populations because the NCES relied on free or reduced lunch status as a proxy... which NCES admits is a poor indicator.

"NCES data rely on surveys of schools drawn from a nationally representative sample self-reporting the number of students who participate in the free and reduced lunch program as a proxy for poverty. When CER raised concerns in 2004 with NCES about its poverty data, that government data center acknowledged, ?free and reduced lunch is a rather poor proxy for poverty, but it is all that is available.?

Many charter schools do not participate in the programs or track such data, resulting in inflated economic statuses of the student populations.

Two, charter schools generally target low economic and low education populations, resulting in an overall lower ability population of students. Until chatrer schools are able to develop a continuously rotating population of students (as public schools have), their scores will be low.

Three, the term "charter schools" is unfortunately too broad and has been used for schools that are online-based in addition to other misfits.

- Collapse -
Hey dirtyrich ...

... do you get any union newsletters? I belong to the AFT and the newsletters are by far dominated by K-12 politics. There is no surprise as to which candidates they endorse which is a misuse of dues IMO. And there is no end to the studies they commission to prove anything but the government/union monopoly on education is maintained and no alternative is considered.

It's odd. Usually Democrats don't like monopolies that deliver poor service for inflated prices. But anyone that has checked their property tax bill (and/or town budget if it is not itemized on the tax bill) lately knows that's exactly what they get with the union dominated government schools.

Evie Happy

- Collapse -
not yet

I just recently entered the field (high school bio) and have yet to get all the junk mail. Personally, I'm upset that a good part of my dues (no option to withhold them) goes towards any political candidates without my permission. I'm all for elective donations through the unions.
I'm not anti-union, I just dislike the national unions because of their focus on politics and activism. The issues of job protection and reasonable pay and benefits (imo, the true purposes of a union) are handled by the state and local unions, so there is no real use of NEA and the AFT.

- Collapse -
The thing I resent most about the ....

... national teacher's unions is their influence in and advocacy over the curriculum. I can't think of any other union that has such a stranglehold over the operation of the "business" they are employed by as the teacher's unions do. Can you imagine the CAW having a say in/influence over what models GM is going to offer next year?

A labor union should first and foremost be for the protection/advocacy of the worker. How pushing the inclusion of radical leftist issues in the curriculum works into that to the benefit of the teachers is beyond me.

Evie Happy

- Collapse -
Democrats don't like BUSINESS monopolies. They LOVE labor,

and municipal monopolies. Those are the people THEY control, and/or are supported by.

- Collapse -
Headlines do not stories make.

Read but probably didn't understand the report. What stuck out to me was this part, Cautions and Interpretations.


CNET Forums