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General discussion

Single payer

Aug 8, 2018 5:14AM PDT

Non-profit.....sounds good but I don't think it should be free.

Perhaps a few brackets based on income.

Those in the lowest bracket get it free.

Others will pay a premium.

Discussion is locked

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Let me write this.
Aug 8, 2018 9:52AM PDT

One of the Non-Profit companies that care (?) for the children seperated from their parents at the border has a salary of 1.5 million USD.

My pfft for the day.

Besides that, medical costs are indeed out of control as it has become a for profit business. At least in the USA.

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No link from Bob, and Proffitt's reply seems to come from
Aug 8, 2018 3:26PM PDT

another galaxy. Happy
Clarification?
Henry George was famous for his single-tax economic ideas. Look 'im up.

Meanwhile, I came across this while looking for George, on the influential economist David Ricardo. Ricardo was one of those pests whose ideas were controversial ... until they proved correct. Happy
"Moreover, Ricardo also condemned protectionist mechanisms and advocated free trade by proposing the comparative advantage theory. He claimed that instead of producing all commodities, if nations focused on producing only ones in which they specialized in and traded the surplus with one another, international production would increase and all trading partners would be better off."

That statement, by itself, seems sensible. But tarriffing (?) is easier than splainin to an electorate.
And on the world level that takes cooperation, good will, knowledge of The Other, confidence in the future ... Oops. Never mind.

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Sorry for no links.
Aug 8, 2018 3:44PM PDT
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It's a long read, so I'm ignoring it. Hitler. Obama. Tariff.
Aug 8, 2018 6:39PM PDT

But, seriously folks, I did notice this.
"Southwest Key says its funding primarily comes from government contracts for youth services"
Sounds like a capitalist finding a niche and filling it. The increase in the size of the niche wasn't caused by the capitalist.
I'm not sure this is relevant, but $1.5 million is not high for a CEO, not by a factor of ten. Not by a factor of 100, looking at CEOs who merely tuck in bond offerings and leveraged buyouts for the night. Happy And CEO compensation is often heavier on the stock option side, which boosts the fin. sector guys considerably more.
I'm told the kids are well cared for as to food/clothing/shelter. Let's hope so.

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If I might add something to mull over
Aug 9, 2018 1:58AM PDT

That each of us has different talents and geography dictates which resources can be offered throughout the world is, unfortunately, an opportunity to hold others as hostage until the requested price is paid.

There is idealism and there is realism. There are those things that we can work toward but also those things that we must live with now. I don't think it's good to fret over our perceived shortcomings but, rather, view them as opportunities to explore and learn from. If we can view each challenge or struggle as a gift rather than a punishment, we could be happier with that which we do have and have achieved. Life is interesting. Enjoy it as much as you can. As Alfred E. Newman would say.....

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And you just described Obamacare in a nutshell...
Aug 8, 2018 4:54PM PDT

and it's a miserable failure.

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BOCARE
Aug 9, 2018 1:35AM PDT

Was an experiment into something that had never been done before.

It was an attempt to get more people onto the insurance rolls.

They knew up front that adjustments would need to be made.

One of the problems was we still had multiple for profit Insurance companies in the mix.

We were funding these places with tax dollars.

Non-profit single payer gets rid of that problem.

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Would your plan off as many choices
Aug 9, 2018 2:36AM PDT

as are currently available through the various private insurance plans?

Would you allow an elderly person to opt out of maternity care and receive discount?
Would you allow a person to opt out of drug treatment/rehab coverage and receive a discount?
etc, etc.

I do recall some decades ago talk about a government sponsored plan to cover certain "catastrophic" events. This would include cancers and such things that would happen through no fault of the insured but it would not cover such things as lung cancer for a heavy smoker. Would such an idea be worth reconsideration?

The ACA (Obamacare) plan was, essentially, all or nothing...conception to grave. Would your plan seek to do that? As well, non-profit just means there are no investors in the background and all income, other that that paid to providers and other "overhead" costs, goes to pay salaries for those employed by the company or organization. It does not dictate their salaries.

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It's not my plan
Aug 9, 2018 3:39AM PDT

The details of single payer would have to be spelled out up front.

What does it cover and what does it not cover.

Those details would be worked out by committee and hopefully published in plain English.

The premiums should also be shown in plain English.

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One of the biggest issue I see with insurance
Aug 9, 2018 4:19AM PDT

companies being in control of fees they'll pay to providers is that the "retail" price (that which can be charged to the uninsured) has gone through the roof. These costs are artificially inflated. For the most part, these inflated full retail prices show up in charges for diagnostics. Note on your EOB what is charged for some blood work and what the insurance contract schedule plus your co-pay adds up to. You'll often find 1000% or more discount to the insured. Something's not right with that picture and that's where I'd be going before looking at expanded insurance coverage. It's this difference in pricing that forces many people to panic and buy insurance. Fix that first.

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Retail
Aug 9, 2018 6:00AM PDT

If someone want's to go without health care coverage and they need a service then expect to pay what ever the provider charges.

I don't think we can go into a business and dictate the price of some service or item.

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I'm not advocating that
Aug 9, 2018 3:25PM PDT

I'm simply making the suggestion that it's been insurance companies that have been largely responsible for driving up the cost of insurance and making it impossible for most but the very wealthy to go without it. Those who are too poor to pay for insurance get medical care anyway but it's at the expense of those who do pay and, especially, those who are liable for the full freight charges. I don't see where coming up with a larger pot of money controlled by fewer people is a solution to much. Keep in mind that insurance is not healthcare.

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Insurance companies
Aug 9, 2018 6:19PM PDT

Are in business to make money.

Whatever that's going to take.

This is where a single payer gov run non-profit differs.

They are not in business to make money and we get to keep an eye on them as to salaries and perks and expenses.

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What a crock of liberalism
Aug 10, 2018 11:52AM PDT

"keep an eye on"?????? Are you kidding me? NOBODY in government is ever held accountable for the excessive spending, including benefits most don't deserve.....and as for government run healthcare......look at the total messes that have been made, including all the easy fraud, via Medicare, Medicaid, Obamacare, and the VA.

Privatize it all and get it out of the hands of the government at all levels; let the people who can buy it choose what coverage they want; purchase across State lines to keep the costs down by competition; and make those who say they can't afford a hospital or doctor bill PROVE they can't (especially when they're walking around in $150 sneakers and sporting expensive tats). Yes, there ARE going to be cases where the homeless or the very poor will legitimately need help, but make it a 'payment' plan, even if it's only $5 a month. Everyone should be responsible for their needs....

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Eye on
Aug 10, 2018 1:25PM PDT

If were not keeping an eye on them then that's our problem.

The person at the top has to make it very clear to the dept heads that they have a budget don't abuse it.

They have perks don't abuse them.

They do not have a gov issued blank check.

Any social program will have fraud.

Users will find a way to game the system.

Those users need to be found and punished and the hole that allowed them to do this must be closed.

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There are way too many government funded programs
Aug 11, 2018 2:19AM PDT

that are already being abused and the abusers left alone because it's more expensive to hire more government workers to enforce the laws than it is to endure the abuse. Why would total government medical care be any different? I'm not buying that idea and, FWIW, the last thing I want is to have the government take over the health care. Even those who were allowed to opt out would be affected because of the medical resources available to them would be impacted by such a government plan. Until we have AI enabled robots that can do all of the creative research needed to keep ahead of better technologies to cure ailments and keep ahead of new diseases that will surface, we will need creative people who are incentivized to enter medical practice. I don't think highly motivated people care much to be involved in highly regulated environments such as what government offers.

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That's your call
Aug 11, 2018 2:33AM PDT

I'll wait and see what the plan looks like and what it will cost.

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Cost versus quality
Aug 11, 2018 2:53AM PDT

You can look at the cost in $$ and I will look at the cost in quality.

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Pre-judge
Aug 11, 2018 4:49AM PDT

I'm not going to pre-judge a program that does not exist yet.

If you want to make that leap that's fine.

For me $$$ will be a factor.

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Here's a bill from another country to look over.
Aug 10, 2018 1:50PM PDT
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Good. But...
Aug 10, 2018 1:59PM PDT

Post was last edited on August 10, 2018 2:10 PM PDT

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So, he was Welsh. Hadn't known that.
Aug 10, 2018 4:50PM PDT

"He resigned when the Attlee government decided to transfer funds from the National Insurance Fund to pay for rearmament."
Hmmm. No wars on in 1951 except the cold one. Still rationing on postwar terms, I believe.
Interesting story.
BTW, his hometown name does have three vowels, but two are in the English part. Happy

Yes, I know about the w; just couldn't resist.

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AND
Aug 10, 2018 2:06PM PDT
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Well, it is your system. If it's that bad, then ...
Aug 10, 2018 4:53PM PDT

"keep an eye on"?????? Are you kidding me? NOBODY in government is ever held accountable for the excessive spending, including benefits most don't deserve..."

Isn't that why you spend so much on elections every two years?

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Up to a point I'm witcha.
Aug 11, 2018 2:01PM PDT

Old joke: What's the purpose of an iron foundry?
Correct answer: To make money.
Insurance companies had this difference: They grew out of different mutual aid groups, pooling their resources for when one member ran into trouble. That works until too many Katrinas. Next step, invest a percent of the funds pool so as to have an excess when needed. I'm sure you know this; I summarize it this way to show that the original "insurance company" was not a 'soulless member of the 1%'. All the members were of the same profession or religion with the same attitudes in their everyday lives.
FF* to today. How many Americans [to pick just one country] have the same attitudes as people even one neighborhood over? How many insurance companies, even the mutuals, spend a minute away from the books, organizing e.g. a fuller's guild picnic?
They're in business to make money, and the executive, up to the CEO, who forgets that loses his job.
There's an alternative. A system that cares so much for the down-and-out that it mandates allowing for gleaners. Put into law. Here's the links; read 'em yourself this time. I'm not your rabbi. Happy: Gleaning in your encyclopedia, and at Lev 19:9,10 and Ruth ch. 2.
Works for us, now.

* Explain to your kids that it's a video tape reference. Then, explain ... Oh, never mind.