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General discussion

Should I be disappointed?

Jun 21, 2009 5:03PM PDT

Today I upgraded the memory of my laptop from 3 to 4 GB, mainly because it took too long to load windows with images or also windows with many icons, and also because I use programs that usually use a lot of memory.

Anyway, in Control Panel - System it shows 4 GB, but in System Information it shows that it has 4 GB of memory installed, but the total physical memory is only 3 GB. Then I found this article http://blogs.technet.com/markrussinovich/archive/2008/07/21/3092070.aspx
and realized with Vista 32 bit I will never see 4 GB of total memory... Sad

Should I be disappointed now? Before, I had only checked the memory in Control Panel - System, I had never noticed the difference between installed and total memory in System Information. But obviously before I must have had 3 GB of installed memory and 2 of total memory, as the article says the system reserves about 1 GB for devices, so there has been a progress I suppose.

Bo

Discussion is locked

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Re: memory.
Jun 21, 2009 5:42PM PDT

You can run Vista in 1 GB. And obviously, it will have more than 0 GB then in use.

My advice: temporarily remove that new stick and see the difference and progress for yourself. Then please tell us what you found and how glad or disappointed you are.

Another interesting question: is the system faster now or could it be that there were other bottlenecks in your PC than not having enough RAM.

Kees

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Depends
Jun 21, 2009 11:52PM PDT

Depends on who or what you're disappointed with. The whole 32-bit memory limitation thing has been no real secret for over a decade. Ever since Intel rolled out it's first 32-bit CPU, the 386, anyone wanting to do the math could figure out that the limit for an unsigned 32-bit integer variable is right around 4GB. Then you subtract the few bits that are reserved for useful things like keeping Program A from clobbering data being used by Program B, which would trigger the General Protection Fault (GPF) error people familiar with Windows 3.1 probably remember all too unfondly, and you wind up with somewhere around 3.25-3.5GB of user addressable space. Again, this has been known since Intel first published the specs on the 386 probably over 20 years ago. So being disappointed in yourself for not knowing, or the glorious tech press, that is supposed to be made up of a bunch of experts, not having a clue about this until maybe a year ago... All perfectly reasonable.

IMO though, the 32-bit Vista is just slow period. It came on my brand new laptop, and there was a noticeable difference between it and my desktop running Vista x64. So I dumped it for Vista x64 for that reason, and that my laptop had 4GB of RAM, and I intended on being able to use it all.

If your system came with Vista, you could probably request a copy of the 64-bit version. IMO, it's worth it. Only catch is there's no upgrade path. You have to format and install fresh.

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The problem would be...
Jun 22, 2009 6:46AM PDT

Thanks for the replies.
I think if I upgraded to 64-bit the problem would be that some programs would not work. I am not sure how to find out what would work and what not...

Bo

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Almost all will...
Jun 22, 2009 7:03AM PDT

The exceptions are:
1.) Drivers: Find 64-bit versions in advance!
2.) Security software: Many are still not compatible, so you may have to switch.
3.) 'Tweaking' utilities and similar applications with shell/kernel integration.

Aside from that, you should be good to go, provided you're willing to reinstall everything from scratch.

John

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Reinstalling....
Jun 22, 2009 7:08AM PDT

... everything from scratch would be a problem. I have got really a lot of programs installed, and all organized like I want them... But thanks for the information, I will keep what you said in mind when I am ready to upgrade.

By the way, regarding the question whether I noticed a difference, yes, my computer is faster now. For example Word opened much faster than before today, and the items in windows do load faster too.

Bo

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Not quite...
Jun 26, 2009 8:41PM PDT

The memory mapped I/O (memory that gets stolen for use with devices) comes out of the addressable memory, not the actual memory.

So, if you have 3 GiB of RAM and a 1 GiB graphics card, then you still have 3 GiB of usable memory, and the last gibibyte of address space is allocated to the card. If you install another gibibyte of RAM, it cannot be addressed.

The solution is to install a 64-bit operating system; it needs to be done from scratch. I'm not familiar with Windows, but on Linux the transition is virtually "fait accompli" with few/no compatibility problems. On Linux there's also the ability to use PAE, which is "36-bit addressing" with 32-bit software, but I understand that desktop Windows does not support this despite the claims of many hoaxers Happy

If your laptop uses a Core 2 it can already support 64-bit. Original Core Solo or Core Duo processors are sadly only 32-bit. If your laptop uses an AMD Turion it is 64-bit and ready to go!

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Max RAM for Vista 32bit OS is 3.5GBs of RAM
Jun 26, 2009 9:30PM PDT
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And min ram.
Jun 27, 2009 12:50AM PDT

I've seen 4GB and over machines report as low as 2.75GB. It's the pits to try to explain why after the hundredth time so let's move on.

BEWARE that Vista 32 bit can fail to install on such machines. Read http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929777

This error is thankfully rare.
Bob

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Visat 32 Bit slow..added the extra 1 gbyte...no difference
Jul 7, 2009 12:02AM PDT

First of all...I am NOT a big believer in Vista 64 Byte...yes numerous programs, or drivers may not work. Vista is SLOw...so instead go to CNET forums area and look at all the solutions for speeding up Vista. Turning off as much services, Aero etc as much as you can.

Second Windows 7 is faster so reserve your copy of W7-home for $49.99 at MS website

And most importantly ..shame on you...CNET had dozens of these posts last year when user brought additional memory to help Vista and did not know 32 bit architecture can not use beyond 3 Gbytes.

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Let's not misrepresent things
Jul 7, 2009 1:58AM PDT

Let's not misrepresent things shall we?

Probably better than 99% of programs run just fine on Vista x64. About the only programs that won't, are the kind that need to access the hardware in a very specific way.

Secondly, Win7 is NOT any faster than Vista. What Microsoft did was tweak process priority settings so that the UI seems responsive even when the system is under load. This gives the ILLUSION of a faster system, even though if you take a stopwatch and measure specific tasks, there won't really be much of a difference that isn't within the margin of error.

For me, Vista x64 is quite responsive most of the time. The boot time can be a bit on the long side, but after it gets rolling, it's every bit as responsive as XP ever was. And we have to remember that when XP came out, people complained that it was slow, that the Luna UI skinning support was a memory hog, that programs didn't work with it (because it was the transition from the old DOS line to the NT line for consumers), that driver support was poor, etc. You name a complaint leveled at Vista, and I bet you can find people making the exact same complaints about XP when it first rolled out.

It doesn't do anyone any good when people misrepresent the situation. There are plenty of things to dislike about Vista, and also plenty of things to like. We don't need to artificially inflate either side with misinformation, hyperbole, and gross misrepresentations.