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General discussion

Schwarzenegger Denies Clemency For Tookie Williams

Dec 12, 2005 6:40AM PST

Stanley "Tookie" Williams' life will not be spared, California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger announced Monday afternoon (December 12), denying the convicted murderer and former gang leader's appeal for clemency less than 12 hours before his


scheduled execution

my heart breaks that it took 24 yrs to juice himSad

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1517949/20051212/index.jhtml?headlines=true

Discussion is locked

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The Hollywood apologists...........
Dec 12, 2005 6:48AM PST

will have to find a new poster boy.

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(NT) (NT) yup
Dec 12, 2005 6:54AM PST
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I am OUTRAGED ...
Dec 12, 2005 6:54AM PST

... that Tookie was given an opportunity to SPEAK to the public through one Tavis Smiley not all that long ago.

I'm a proponent of the death penalty, but the one argument against it I can wrap my head around is to take the spotlight away from this scum. No books, no interviews, etc. No more children's books and Nobel prizes and whatnot. Just let them fade away into obscurity totally isolated from society.

http://www.tavistalks.com/TTcom/TSradio/Williams112805.html

I'm glad to hear Ah-nuld did the right thing!

Evie Happy

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The right thing?
Dec 12, 2005 12:18PM PST

I thought Shwarzenegger professed to be Christian (that's what he said in promising to veto the gay marriage bill). It's NOT the right thing from a Christian perspective.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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(NT) (NT) its the letter of the law
Dec 12, 2005 12:37PM PST
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Yes, the right thing.
Dec 12, 2005 7:48PM PST

For starters, there is no uniform position regarding the Death Penalty for Christians. Some denominations support it, others do not. I do note that you are pretty supportive of free will for any number of tenets of the Catholic Church you choose not to support. As such, you should extend that courtesy for those that might make other selections at Luby's.

Doing the right thing, however, has nothing to do with Christianity or Christian beliefs. It has to do with doing the right thing within the powers of his office to serve ALL involved best. The job of Governor is NOT to overrule the voters of a state that enact a DP through their legislators. The job of Governor is NOT to overturn a jury's verdict and countless Court decisions based on one's personal belief. His job IS to be the final arbitor where a possible injustice might be enacted. Let's not forget that the victim's families and the victims themselves are entitled to the protections of the laws as this murderous thug is. Pity the celebs that rallied to this cause Sad It is one thing to be against the DP in ALL cases, but for most of them, this wasn't the issue.

Read the Governor's statement: http://www.governor.ca.gov/govsite/pdf/press_release_2005/Williams_Clemency_Statement.pdf
He did the RIGHT thing.

If Tookie found redemption, you'll see him when you get there right?

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Yes, it was right.
Dec 12, 2005 10:07PM PST

Shwarzenegger's religion has nothing to do with it. He followed the law and gave the death penalty opposers all the opportunity and more to change his mind. There was NO compelling argument to not execute this killer. His continued existence servess no purpose. Tookie got what he deserved, albeit too late by far.

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Not Christian? Try reading the Bible...
Dec 13, 2005 2:45AM PST

and you should have absolutely NO TROUBLE refuting yourself (even if you constrain your reading only to Mathew).

The writings about Christ show pretty clearly that he was not all "peace, love, dove" but was a strong advocate for law and observing law as well as self defense ahead of warmth.

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Here's what the Pope has to say about it, Ed
Dec 13, 2005 12:25PM PST
Pope outraged over 'Tookie' execution.

>> At the Vatican, Pope Benedict's top official for justice matters denounced the death penalty for going against redemption and human dignity. "We know the death penalty doesn't resolve anything," Renato Cardinal Martino told Associated Press Television News. "Even a criminal is worthy of respect because he is a human being. The death penalty is a negation of human dignity." <<

We're in pretty questionable company in using the death penalty -- places like China, Russia, North Korea, Cuba. IOW, all the places you so much profess to admire, Ed. As for this Pope, no one's ever accused him of being a bleeding heart liberal!

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!
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Has any Pope or Vatican
Dec 13, 2005 7:36PM PST

spokesperson ever historically apologized for their own reign of terror and murder? As ANY religious community/cult leader ever apologized for their past behaviors? Or did they just stop and have the world accept that as an apology with no 'punishment' for them either?

TONI

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How about what the Pope ...
Dec 13, 2005 8:58PM PST

... has had to say about any other life issue? Yeah, right.

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well i give a hoot about his opinion
Dec 13, 2005 10:58PM PST

we should send the poe the pictures from this killer to see.

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(NT) (NT) What would you expect to achieve by that?
Dec 13, 2005 11:13PM PST
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i expect nothing
Dec 13, 2005 11:20PM PST

the vaticans not my problem nor my concern.
if he wants to have all our killers im all for sending them there let him house feed the scum

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(NT) (NT) This sub-thread is closed !
Dec 13, 2005 11:35PM PST
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(NT) (NT) They'll use him as a martyr for the next 10 years
Dec 12, 2005 6:55AM PST
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so....ummmmmm
Dec 12, 2005 11:54AM PST

as a "martyr" does he qualify for the 72 virgins........


.

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New--worthy, IMO--poster boy: Cory Maye.
Dec 12, 2005 10:01AM PST
http://www.theagitator.com/archives/025962.php

"Let's summarize: Cops mistakenly break down the door of a sleeping man, late at night, as part of drug raid. Turns out, the man wasn't named in the warrant, and wasn't a suspect. The man, frigthened for himself and his 18-month old daughter, fires at an intruder who jumps into his bedroom after the door's been kicked in. Turns out that the man, who is black, has killed the white son of the town's police chief. He's later convicted and sentenced to death by a white jury. The man has no criminal record, and police rather tellingly changed their story about drugs (rather, traces of drugs) in his possession at the time of the raid."

There but for the grace of God go I - Mark
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Cory Maye
Dec 12, 2005 10:05AM PST

That sounds like a cause to get behind. Where's the ACLU?

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Such a waste.
Dec 12, 2005 11:25AM PST

In so many ways.

Dan

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yes your right dan a total watse
Dec 12, 2005 11:30AM PST

a waste of 24 yrs worth of food, and other stuff.
never mind the people this low life killed.
your right what a waste

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Wasting more doesn't make up
Dec 12, 2005 11:53AM PST

for what has already been wasted.

Dan

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ok dan ask the famiallys
Dec 12, 2005 12:09PM PST

of the killed people this animal what they think.

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But, Mark, waste as an
Dec 12, 2005 12:17PM PST

answer to waste is not going to improve anything.

Dan

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ok how about this we release him
Dec 12, 2005 12:38PM PST

into your custidy, if he kills, breaks the law after that you serve his time?

and you ask the dead peoples famially if they are ok with it.
till then hes juiced

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I haven't hear dnyone sugesting that
Dec 12, 2005 9:54PM PST

he should be released, Mark. That's a deeply flawed argument.

Dan

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well you want him to get
Dec 12, 2005 9:57PM PST

clemency, look at how much money it would have cost to feed the thug.
but its a mute thing now hes taking a dirt nap.

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There is a huge difference, Mark
Dec 12, 2005 10:07PM PST

between clemency and release. That is most obvious.

Dan

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but clemencey means feeding medical bills
Dec 12, 2005 10:22PM PST

tax payers supporting this scum.
death was deserved and took 23 to long

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Cost of DP is higher than prison!
Dec 13, 2005 12:53AM PST
Kansas Death Penalty Cost Report
Summary by Death Penalty Information Center

The State of Kansas recently issued a report estimating the costs of the death penalty in that state: "Performance Audit Report: Costs Incurred for Death Penalty Cases: A K-GOAL Audit of the Department of Corrections," (December 2003).

Conclusions

The estimated cost of a death penalty case was 70% more than the cost of a comparable non-death penalty case. Death penalty case costs were counted through to execution (median cost $1.26 million). Non-death penalty case costs were counted through to the end of incarceration (median cost $740,000).
Items:
- The investigation costs for death-sentence cases were about 3 times greater than for non-death cases.

- The trial costs for death cases were about 16 times greater than for non-death cases ($508,000 per death case; $32,000 per non-death case).

- The appeal costs for death cases were about 21 times greater.

- The costs of carrying out a death sentence (including death row incarceration) were about half the costs of carrying out a non-death sentence in a comparable case.

- Trials involving a death sentence averaged 34 days, including jury selection; non-death trials averaged about 9 days.

For death sentence cases, the pre-trial and trial level costs were the most expensive parts: 49% of the total costs. The costs of appeals were 29% of the total, and incarceration and execution costs accounted for the remaining 22% of the total.


or this covers studies from multiple states,

Information on Costs of the Death Penalty From DPIC