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General discussion

SATA HDD's + IDE HDD's in a system - Problems booting XP

Dec 10, 2006 4:53AM PST

I am having a problem starting XP on my system. I have 3 hdd's; one SATA and two IDE drives. The problem I am having is that Windows XP won't boot up. After the black screen containing the Windows XP logo at startup, the screen goes blank and the system freezes at that point.

My configuration is as follows:

Intel P4D; Intel D945 PWM;
1 - Seagate Barracuda 7200 RPM 320GB SATA Drive --> this is my main OS drive {connected to SATA 0}
2 - 300 GB maxtor IDE drive {connected to SATA 1 via IDE-SATA adapter}
3 - 200 GB Maxtor IDE drive {connected to SATA 2 via IDE-SATA adapter}


I have a SATA adapter on the 2 IDE drives, hence their connection to the SATA ports on the mobo. I have 2 DVD drives on the IDE cable.


I have ensured that with the SATA adapter on the IDE drives, the jumper settings on the IDE drives are all set to master. Prior settings of the jumpers to "slave" would result in no boot screen at all upon powering on. That mistake recognized and rectified, I still cannot figure out why XP won't load under my current setting.

The BIOS settings have been set so that SATA 0 is the drive to boot from (the true SATA drive). In the BIOS, the system is recognizing the other HDD's connected to SATA 1 and 2 without a problem.

SATA 1 has my old image on it (also with XP), and when I set SATA 1 as the drive to boot from, I get the same problem of Windows freezing at the black "Windows XP logo" start up screen.

Being pretty new at building systems in my spare time, I can't figure out the problem. Any suggestions? I feel as if I'm overlooking something pretty simple, but all the mobo drivers and the like are all up to date.

Thanks.

Discussion is locked

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Is this OS a "transplant"?
Dec 10, 2006 5:41AM PST

What I find many times is the OS was moved from some other machine. This rarely works. We get to do a repair install and follow the sata XP install procedure and hope that cures it. If not we wipe the drive and start fresh.

Bob

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Not and OS transplant
Dec 10, 2006 5:56AM PST

Bob, thanks for your reply. I am actually starting fresh from my SATA drive.

What happened was this: Old system's mobo fried. The old drive was still in tact--I had 2 IDE's, one was the OS, the other was storage.

I proceeded to upgrade, new mobo, cpu, ram, etc., and a larger SATA HDD to operate from. Before hooking up the old IDE's, I imaged the SATA drive as the sole drive on the system. It worked flawlessly. Then I pulled out the old IDE's from the old system and hooked them up to this new system. These are currently the one's adapted with the IDE-to-Sata adapter.

This is where the problem began. Now that these two IDE drives are hooked up to SATA 1 and SATA 2 on the mobo, XP won't boot, but when I unhook them, the computer boots up fine. The OS is on the true SATA drive, which is hooked up to SATA 0 on the mobo.

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Beyond OS issues, tell about the power supply.
Dec 10, 2006 6:04AM PST

With 3 hard disks that's 60 watts right there. I hope you have the big supply.

Does XP boot in SAFE MODE with the drives attached?

Bob

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Power Supply and Other Specs
Dec 10, 2006 6:27AM PST

My power supply is 500Watts (Ultra brand).

I have a 128 bit nVidia GeForce 6200 video card on it, and 1gb of ram.


I finally got it up and running in safe mode. I am now conducting a virus scan of the old drives (just in case), and then I will proceed to retry loading XP in normal mode.

Is 500 watts too low for this configuration?

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I think the PSU is fine.
Dec 10, 2006 6:55AM PST

Since it boots in SAFE MODE that's a good clue. It doesn't tell use where the issue is yet, but it does help.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/310353 notes the "clean boot" which could help narrow down if the issue is in the list.

-> The gritty details of the OS install are also needed. I can't guess if your BIOS is current, the motherboard drivers are the latest and other items. But that is where I look. I also skip the use of any memory optimizer, Intel Speed accelators until the machine is stable.

Bob

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OS install details
Dec 10, 2006 8:17AM PST

I'm not sure how many variations on OS installations there are. I didn't even know there were any. The installation I conducted was just straight off the XP Cd onto the SATA drive while none of the other drives (save and except for the optical ide drives) were connected.


The BIOS is the most current from Intel. I don't use memory optimizers or intel speed accelerators--at least none that I'm aware of. Is that sort of thing standard?

I'm trying to do a clean boot but it doesn't look like I can access the run menu while in safe mode.

I've heard that you can connect sata drives hot. I don't know how risky connecting the drives AFTER i've loaded up with just the OS drive would be, while the computer is on. Hmm...i guess I'll try figuring out how to do a clean boot.

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We might be close.
Dec 10, 2006 9:21AM PST

Since you only used the XP CD that may be "it." I'm always amazed when the machine's maker or documents don't tell the owners about SATA drivers.

I may have missed it, but check the maker's web site for those drivers.

Bob

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Tried Re-imaging
Dec 10, 2006 9:34AM PST

The clean boot didn't work.

Tried re-imaging the system while the two IDE drives were hooked up (adapted to the Sata 1 and 2 ports as before).

NOTHING. Upon trying to reformat using the windows xp cd, the process would freeze after selecting the option to install windows.

I suppose it might be the adapters i'm using on the IDE drives? I'm not sure.

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"Upon trying to reformat using the windows xp cd, the"
Dec 10, 2006 9:55AM PST

"Upon trying to reformat using the windows xp cd, the process would freeze after selecting the option to install windows."

That's exactly what should happen. Here's an example XP to Sata install.

http://www.seagate.com/support/kb/disc/faq/sata_detect.html

What you need to know is this procedure is "much like" what you see there. It's amazing you got this far without the SATA drivers.

Bob

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Amazing i've gotten this far?
Dec 10, 2006 10:23PM PST

Wow, i've been running another computer for a year now with a 300gb SATA Maxtor drive, with a similar spec Pentium D with intel extreme motherboard. I didn't even install a SATA driver, but maybe that one is running flawlessly because it's only got a single SATA drive. This current system only worked perfectly when the one single SATA drive was hooked up.


Anyway, as for this current system, I will install the SATA drivers and have a go at it. Can I do this by unhooking the 2 problem drives and then install them while XP is running with the single SATA hooked up, or should I do a clean install with the 2 adapted drives also hooked up?

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"a single SATA drive." is likely why.
Dec 11, 2006 12:30AM PST

But even then I find the performance to be lackluster on such systems. Remember that I encounter hundreds of systems and there is bound to be one lucky dog (you?) that got away without the proper OS install procedure.

I would DEFINITELY try installing the SATA drivers on the working OS and then seeing if that helps. Remember that I also follow the maker's notes about motherboard chipset drivers then the SATA drivers and so on. It's like a home's fondation (motherboard chipset drivers.)

Bob

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OK so i decided to reformat...
Dec 12, 2006 12:30PM PST

I downloaded the Intel utility at this address and tried to install without re-imaging the computer:

http://downloadfinder.intel.com/scripts-df-external/filter_results.aspx?strTypes=all&ProductID=2101&OSFullName=Windows*+XP+Professional&lang=eng&strOSs=44&submit=Go%21


It didn't work, so I decided to use the F6 method of installing the drivers upon installing XP, which I assume is what I should have done from day 1. Only now i'm not sure what choice I should select:

- Intel(R) 82801HR/HH/HO SATA RAID Controller (Desktop ICH8R)
- Intel(R) 82801HR/HH/HO SATA AHCI Controller (Desktop ICH8R)

My crude understanding is that "RAID" is for when you have two drives mirrored, and therefore would not apply in this situation. Before I put the other leg knee deep in it, am I correct that AHCI is the one to choose here?

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Intel(R) 82801HR/HH/HO SATA AHCI Controller (Desktop ICH8R)
Dec 12, 2006 1:00PM PST

The RAID is those other connections where drives are attached. Be sure you know which drive is attached to what.

Bob

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In answer to my post immediately above this...
Dec 12, 2006 1:03PM PST

OK, I'll respond to my own question here for those who are following this thread for some reason or another...

The answer is this:

NOTE: If you are using a SATA hard drive, the best choice is to set your BIOS to RAID mode and install the operating system using the F6 installation procedure; RAID mode allows your system to be "RAID Ready" and also enables AHCI. This mode provides the greatest overall flexibility and upgradeability.

Found at:

http://www.intel.com/support/chipsets/imst/sb/cs-015988.htm

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Intel(R) 82801HR/HH/HO SATA AHCI Controller (Desktop ICH8R)
Dec 12, 2006 10:17PM PST

What's the difference between these two anyway?

Intel(R) 82801HR/HH/HO SATA AHCI Controller (Desktop ICH8R)

Intel(R) 82801HR/HH/HO SATA RAID Controller (Desktop ICH8R)


My guess is that RAID is for arrayed/mirrored drives only? The intel site from which I posted said RAID mode is the most flexible--or does that strictly to a bios setting?

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What is RAID.
Dec 12, 2006 10:33PM PST

Some don't like that I won't duplicate ready web content, but the short answer is that on most boards you can connect drives to the RAID controllers but optionally use them as single drives or the RAID array. I stop short of reading the manual for members when we go this deep. The reason is if a member is going to do this then they must understand it or they may get in over their head and lose all their data when they make a false move.

During the XP OS install to SATA you've discovered the needed steps and drivers and how XP will ask which drive to install to. From there it's your choice. Some ask me "what should I do?" and my answer is you do what you want. There is no correct answer here. All part of the fun of home built and maintained machines.

-> I did have a thought that maybe you could have left the drives on PATA since there is no speed gain with convertors but I can't know why the decisions were made. My systems over the years have grown simpler since I don't want the headaches or the odd OS install. I do wish Microsoft would issue a Windows XP that had SATA good to go. Yes we can slipstream those drivers in but it would be for a specific board and outdated next week.

What is RAID? Look it up on Wikipedia but keep in mind it's not something I feel you will be using. Only the connections for single drives.

Bob

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RAID, etc.
Dec 12, 2006 10:43PM PST

Thanks for the reply Bob.

I guess I should've clarified, I know the general benefits of RAID and will eventually go that route, but this computer is not my main system, so the user won't really need that advanced a set up. However, since the motherboard had SATA ports, and I had two other PATA drives left over, I decided to put them to use. However, 2 optical drives are also connected so I picked up converters so I can have the drives on the raid ports while the optical remained on the IDE. Also figuring in to this config was the tower design. I really wish it was a full tower but it's a mid-size, and keeping the cables neat and organized and air flow efficient was part of the reason I adapted these drives and have them set up the way I do.

As for RAID vs. AHCI, I figured from the site that choosing the RAID over AHCI meant that the computer would work fine, and would leave me the option to create an array later on down the road, whereas AHCI wouldn't. Either way, I do have to read up on it but I will go the RAID route for my gaming and video editing system.

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Still Nothing
Dec 22, 2006 10:54AM PST

Well,

Finally got a chance to have another crack at the computer and looks like nothind discussed in this thread was able to overcome it.

I'm taking the same approach in terms of setup, and I'm currently back to where I began, having tried the options heretofore discussed.

One thing I have noticed however, on Intel's website,was the following:

To enable RAID mode:

Enter the BIOS
Select Advanced
Select Drive Configuration
Enable Intel

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Is there a BIOS update for this board?
Dec 22, 2006 10:57AM PST

I've run into the odd board that I've had to find a new home for.

But from memory, why not remove the PATA to SATA adapters and go back to old school PATA?

Bob

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PATA cables being used for 2 optical drives
Dec 22, 2006 11:23AM PST

Since I have 2 optical drives hooked up, I can't hook up the two PATA drives via PATA/ide cable. Even i were to have only one optical drive, my understanding is that it leaves me only one extra ide hdd I can install.


As for the BIOS update, there was an update and I updated very early on in my trials with the system. It dodn't really help.

Strange that there's nothing in the bios that will enable RAID or AHCI mode under Drive Configuration. I've scoured everywhere else in the bios but nothing could be found that's applicable to enabling RAID or AHCI. Intel's support site really blows. I can't find anything on point.

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Found Something different with this problematic system's M/b
Dec 22, 2006 12:02PM PST

The mobo is an Intel D945PWM.

As I said above, there's no option to set the drive configuration in the BIOS to ACHI or RAID.

In my other intel motherboard, an intel extreme 9 series, the bios is more or less the same--only there IS an option under drive configuration that allows you to configure SATA drives as IDE, RAID, AHCI.

This other piece of s^#t doesn't have that option for some reason.

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3 year warranty is nice.
Dec 22, 2006 12:21PM PST
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Partial success
Dec 22, 2006 1:36PM PST

Looks like it's working with one hard drive left in, with one of the smaller ide's unhooked. Looks like i'll just go with that. Could be a problem with that drive perhaps.

Intel will still get a phone call when their tech support is open though. Their online support and instructions with the board were terrible.