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Sarkozy and Merkle. Yeah, like this is gonna work.

by James Denison / December 5, 2011 1:59 AM PST
The first two paragraphs in this article sets up the obvious situation of future failure. Don't worry though, the stock markets are buying this pig in a poke, for now.

Let me see if I can translate this; If you create an economic problem in your country, the Eurozone will make it a bigger economic problem by punishing you, and that will make everything better for everyone. Gheezus are these people born stump stupid?! The game of economic musical chairs continue as Sarkozy and Merkle take the center of the dance floor to begin the next round of dosey doe.

PARIS (Reuters) - The leaders of France and Germany agreed a master
plan on Monday for imposing budget discipline across the euro zone,
saying the EU treaty will need to be changed in the search for a
sweeping solution to its debt crisis.

President Nicolas Sarkozy
and Chancellor Angela Merkel said their proposal included automatic
penalties for governments which fail to keep their deficits under
control, and an early launch of a permanent bailout fund for euro states
in distress.
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Managing budgets and deficits
by MarkFlax Forum moderator / December 5, 2011 3:06 AM PST

What to do, nothing?

Financial penalties are everywhere. If you overdraw your account at the bank, if you miss payments on the mortgage, if you fail to pay the minimum due on credit card accounts, you are charged extra. So why not nations?

Nations must manage their debt and their deficits and I believe, (but who knows for sure yet as nothing has been finalized), that the plan is if nations who fail to do manage their deficit apply for more loans, the interest rates will be higher.

How else to do it?


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Maybe they could consult Lincoln on it?
by James Denison / December 5, 2011 8:11 AM PST
Sarkozy and Merkel said
they would send off their plan on Wednesday, in time for Friday's
summit, and made clear their determination to drive through an EU treaty
change despite objections from some member states.

Lincoln's advice;

The Beginning of Lies

Apprehension seems to exist among the people of the Southern
States, that by the accession of a Republican Administration,
their property, and their peace, and personal security, are to be
endangered. There has never been any reasonable cause for such
apprehension. Indeed, the most ample evidence to the contrary
has all the while existed, and been open to their inspection. It is
found in nearly all the published speeches of him who now
addresses you. I do but quote from one of those speeches
when I declare that "I have no purpose, directly or indirectly,
to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States
where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no
inclination to do so." Those who nominated and elected me did so with full
knowledge that I had made this, and many similar declarations, and had never
recanted them.

Resolved, That the maintenance inviolate of the rights of the
States, and especially the right of each State to order and control
its own domestic institutions according to its own judgment exclusively,
is essential to that balance of power on which the perfection
and endurance of our political fabric depend; and we denounce
the lawless invasion by armed force of the soil of any
State or Territory, no matter what pretext, as among the
gravest of crimes."

I now reiterate these sentiments; and in doing so, I only press
upon the public attention the most conclusive evidence of which
the case is susceptible, that the property, peace and security of
no section are to be in any wise endangered by the now incoming

Justification for War

I hold, that in contemplation of universal law, and of the
Constitution, the Union of these States is perpetual. Perpetuity
is implied, if not expressed,
in the fundamental law of all national
governments. It is safe to assert that no government proper, ever
had a provision in its organic law for its own termination.
Continue to execute all the express provisions of our national
Constitution, and the Union will endure forever -- it being impossible
to destroy it, except by some action not provided for in the instrument

Criminalizing of Freedom & States Rights

It follows from these views that no State, upon its own mere
motion, can lawfully get out of the Union, -- that resolves
and ordinances to that effect are legally void, and that acts of violence,
within any State or States, against the authority of the United
States, are insurrectionary or revolutionary, according to circumstances.

The Second Big Lie

In doing this there needs to be no bloodshed or violence;
and there shall be none, unless it be forced upon the national
The power confided to me will be used to hold, occupy,
and possess the property and places belonging to the government,
and to collect the duties and imposts; but beyond what may be
necessary for these objects, there will be no invasion -- no using
of force against or among the people anywhere.
Where hostility to
the United States in any interior locality, shall be so great and so
universal, as to prevent competent resident citizens from holding
the Federal offices, there will be no attempt to force obnoxious
strangers among the people for that object. While the strict legal
right may exist in the government to enforce the exercise of these
offices, the attempt to do so would be so irritating, and so nearly
impracticable with all, that I deem it better to forego, for the time,
the uses of such offices.

After admitting all the Lies he later embarked on were wrong, his speech just become worse and worse. It's called the Cooper Union speech upon his inauguration if anyone's interested in reading one of the most convoluted excuses passing for reasoning they've probably ever encountered.

Europe, you are next!
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you say "nations"
by James Denison / December 5, 2011 8:17 AM PST

Change the word to "states" and then compare that to "union" as the one to provide punitive actions against "member states" and you will see the picture more clearly. Unless those who still are "nations" remove themselves from that "Union" now, then later they will eventually become subsumed into the "Union" and no longer be "nations", and one region will force it's power and will across the others. The "Union" will accomplish what Hitler & the Vichy govt failed to do. Is there anyone there named Lincoln?

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I see Mark, I'm not the only one...
by James Denison / December 6, 2011 10:14 PM PST

...thinking this way. Here's an article that came out just this morning. It sounds like I could have written it.

End Times For The Euro Zone

Lenin must be laughing in his grave.
The newest proposal by French President Nicolas Sarkozy and
German Chancellor Angela Merkel creates what amounts to a fiscal KGB in
Brussels to beat up on euro zone countries that break ranks on budget
policy. It's as preposterous as all the others that have come before.
The citizens of countries ranging from Finland to Slovakia are
not going to give up any more of their sovereign rights to technocrats
running an organization that has already failed miserably at its goal of
creating economic stability through currency union.
Anyone with a high school textbook can read about how centrally
planned economies are a relic of the barbaric Soviet era — in which
Merkel herself came of age in East Germany. (continues more into economic considerations in the article)

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Yes there are certainly concerns
by MarkFlax Forum moderator / December 7, 2011 3:27 AM PST

Our own Government and Parliament are discussing this now and is full of concern about the new proposals, and I did see that other EU nations like Finland, Ireland and others are expressing similar worries.

I don't know what the answer is, and the problem is, no-one else is coming up with anything else. Everyone says 'this won't work', 'that won't work', but no-one else offers any other relevant and workable solutions.

No, I don't think we will see the KGB or a Nationalist Socialist Europe in any way shape or form.


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"to form a more perfect Union"?
by James Denison / December 5, 2011 7:50 AM PST
Sarkozy and Merkel said they would send off their plan on Wednesday, in time for Friday's summit, and made clear their determination to drive through an EU treaty change despite objections from some member states. (jd-where have we heard this before? USA-CSA War?)

Sarkozy said the economic policy mistakes that led to the euro zone crisis must never happen again, accepting that France and Germany, the euro zone's two biggest economies, bore the biggest responsibility for finding a solution. (jd-we'll tax our textiles, you can't tax your cotton. Oops, that was the last time in a land far far away)

"In this extremely worrying period and serious crisis, France believes that the alliance and understanding with Germany are of strategic importance," he said. "Risking a disagreement would be risking the euro zone exploding." (jd-Hey, how about force?)

Sarkozy rallied behind her, saying it would be absurd for France and Germany to cover the debts of countries over whose debt issuance they had no control...President Nicolas Sarkozy and Chancellor Angela Merkel said their proposal included automatic penalties for governments that fail to keep their deficits under control, and an early launch of a permanent bailout fund for euro states in distress....ECB policymakers have been reluctant to buy up debt from distressed euro states, as this would take the pressure off governments to get their finances in order. But ECB chief Mario Draghi has signaled that a euro zone "fiscal compact" could encourage the bank to act more decisively on the crisis.(jd-"we won't cover your debts, just boss you around concerning them)
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Get Ready To Pay For It
by James Denison / December 8, 2011 12:45 PM PST
I wonder if they'll call it the Marshall Plan again? Nah, that would be too much. Maybe The Geithner Plan? Whatever they name it, seems Obama and company are just waiting for any deal to be agreed on in Europe for Bernanke to fly his money helicopter over and drop US money into the yawning financial pit of Europe.

With so much at stake on the summit's results, U.S. Treasury
Secretary Timothy Geithner was zipping across Europe on a three-day trip
to press the region's leaders to solve their differences.
Reforms to deal with the debt crisis are
"vital" but their implementation will take some time, Geithner said in
Milan, where he met Italy's new Premier Mario Monti.
Secretary of State Hilary Clinton, who was in
Brussels, said the United States was willing to offer assistance. "But
we do need a plan to rally behind, to know the way forward."
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