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Rules for what homeless can own ?

by itsdigger / October 28, 2015 7:41 AM PDT

Just when you think it couldn't get worse, the take away their boxes/homes

Chicago Homeless Rules: 4 Shoes, 2 Coats, 5 Blankets And No Potted Plants More Here<br>

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(NT) Still like Utah's solution
by Diana Forum moderator / October 28, 2015 9:52 AM PDT
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No...this can't be true
by Steven Haninger / October 28, 2015 10:42 AM PDT
A product of the Bush administration?

"And while the Obama Administration has put a lot of weight (and money) behind these efforts, the original impetus for them on a national scale came from the Bush Administration’s homelessness czar Philip Mangano."
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I can see that working in Utah
by itsdigger / October 28, 2015 2:49 PM PDT

where there is under 2000 homeless across the Whole State but, Here in Chicago alone , by itself ,there are somewhere around 6500 homeless people.

Do you believe (the pretty much bankrupt) state of Illinois is going to pony up any money to put these homeless folks ( not including the rest of the state's homeless ) up in houses ?

Chicago and Cook County is already chasing property and business owners out due to over taxing .
My city taxes are going up $500 this year and County taxes are going to follow suit.
Are the Chicago tax payers supposed to foot the bill for these homeless people by ourselves ?

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What their logic seems to be is that
by Steven Haninger / October 28, 2015 3:00 PM PDT

they'll save money they're already spending on emergency medical care and jail time. I guess they were previously costing 40 to 50 K apiece to care for them. Those two expenses bring up a lot of questions and the possible answers aren't all pretty ones. Why are they spending so much time in jail? Is it for crimes they commit or is it just an act of mercy to keep them out of the cold? Why are they spending so much time in the emergency rooms? Are they getting beat, frostbite or is it for drug overdose reasons? I believe the estimated savings was in the area of 16 K per person when they were given a free home or apartment.

You mentioned Chicago to be a completely different situation and I agree. In Utah, the concentration of homeless is around Salt Lake City. That's a very Mormon city and I would wonder if the expected generosity of Mormons is something of a lightning rod for the indigent. These are only thoughts and questions and not any type of opinion.

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I just did calculations
by James Denison / October 28, 2015 3:25 PM PDT

On creation of 8x8 foot with 7 foot to 5 foot sloping roof as temporary sleeping replacements for flimsy tents, built from waferboard 5/8 nominal and 2x4x8 foot studs, minimal requirement and before any roofing material it's under $300 in supplies. #30 felt is fairly cheap to cover corners against drafts if needed and provide roof area rain and snow protection. Rigid foam board 4x8 foot 1 inch thick is $14 and 10 of those will insulate the walls and ceiling to add comfort and heat retention in winter, so another $140 for the added comfort. All total, some nice homeless detached shelters just for sleeping in maybe have a thrift store couch and chair in for $500 per occupant, or couple is possible. Public bathroom facilities or port-a-potties placed nearby can be used.


8 foot square room is considerably more protected space than most homeless get today under the overpasses, elevated areas where so many congregate in Obamaville's.

Hmm, maybe they should walk around with briefcases with clock guts and wires stuck inside them, might get more attention from Obama. If you want welfare in America today, you should be female, black, and several illegitimate children, and for better medical have another bun in the oven too.

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That sounds pretty cheap
by itsdigger / October 28, 2015 3:54 PM PDT

but you mentioned other things like port a potty's and I looked into that Here and the minimum cost I can figure a month of 6500 people @ 50 people per port a potty is $ 26,000 a month ( my maths probably off )
Than there's property rental and probably a lot of stuff that I can't think of .

Also if the Chicago taxpayer's footed the bill for these 6500 people would it be like some kind of implied contract saying that we are responsible for them.
I think this could be more complicated than we imagine

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I would bet that Chicago
by James Denison / October 28, 2015 4:09 PM PDT

has plenty of open land areas near it which is already owned. I know Detroit sure has a lot of empty lots and open areas now.

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Other options
by James Denison / October 29, 2015 1:40 PM PDT

There are "potty chairs" used in nursing homes that the indigent could have to use in their small building and dump the sealed bag into a dumpster. Definitely a lot cheaper than porta potty rental.

Urine collection is done in some European countries increasingly for fertilizer use. It's NPK formula is about 10-1-2 and the first being nitrogen in a form easily absorbed and turned into useful nitrates for plants. I've done it for experimental purposes myself, makes a perfect liquid fertilizer and only a teaspoon of common household clorox per gallon while collecting keeps it from "turning" and creating an odor. My border bushes love it. Wink

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/human-urine-is-an-effective-fertilizer/

http://www.betterworldsolutions.eu/fertilizer-from-urine-festival-visitors/

There are also special toilets being sold now in those countries to collect urine separate from feces when one "sits the pot" and so the high nitrogen content won't be included in the feces going to sanitation departments, but as a liquid instead more easily used for fertilizer, and most urine is sterile already. They probably add a more earth friendly preservative than clorox though, maybe vitamin C, like used in blood bags.

Urine Diversion Toilets
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urine_diversion

Here's one person by what appears to be 500 gallon collection tank in a basement.
https://www2.buildinggreen.com/blogs/urine-collection-beats-composting-toilets-nutrient-recycling

You can ferment urine too and nitrate fixing bacteria will cause nitrate salts to precipitate out. In past that's been done to collect nitrates used in explosives. Contract with the right farming enterprise and the urine collection from the "homeless" might even pay for providing the service. Compare to the commercial liquid fertilizer formula, urine at 10-1-2 and the store stuff at 12-3-3.

http://5ef2f6f2bbcb68e27228-d3f83ca00ea8841562692ca4cf9a897a.r70.cf2.rackcdn.com/Labels/fertiRain12.pdf

The middle number is phosphorus and that only needs application every few years since it's retained better, longer in a soil. So the nitrogen and pottasium figures are very close and the urine can easily have added potassium using muriate of potash aka potassium chloride, which is soluble.

A gallon of 10% nitrogen solution in gardening is worth $5-6 in today's market, and that's not counting the extra phosphorus and potassium levels in urine. Hard to believe isn't it? Every gallon of urine has potential value of $5 per gallon.

Do the math. Here's a 20% solution in 2.5 gallon jug for $30

($30/2.5gal)/2=$6

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RE: My border bushes love it
by JP Bill / October 29, 2015 6:19 PM PDT
In reply to: Other options

What's your address?

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Helped in other forums this month?
by James Denison / October 29, 2015 6:32 PM PDT

Let me check....

Nope, not helped a single person in the other CNET forums this month.


You don't deserve my address.

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RE:You don't deserve my address
by JP Bill / October 30, 2015 3:59 AM PDT

To paraphrase the Soup Nazi "NO urine for your bushes!!!"

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$6 million dollars
by James Denison / October 29, 2015 6:20 PM PDT

Just to use $1000 per homeless to provide 8x8 or 8x12 insulated sheds to live in for awhile. That doesn't even cover waste disposal, even if potty chairs and plastic seal bags for feces taken to dump and urine collection devices are used.

Of course that's a drop in the bucket for the Feds, but stiff addition to a smaller city budget, but Chicago has a huge budget and they just passed 775 million more in taxes using homeless as the excuse. I'm guessing the homeless will remain so, other than a token gesture, and the new tax burden will continue, and they will all clap themselves on the back for figuring a way to sell more Chicagoan's on higher taxes that exceeds what would be needed to aid the homeless. That's something between 120-130 thousand dollars per homeless, every year. At that increase they could provide $1,000 apartments for each homeless person or family and at 6000 of them, not even considering some are families and not all individuals needing separate housing, that could be had for $72 million dollars for adequate housing.

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forgot link
by James Denison / October 29, 2015 6:26 PM PDT
In reply to: $6 million dollars
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/politics/ct-rahm-emanuel-city-council-budget-met-1029-20151028-story.html

"After weeks of discussion, debate and flat-out complaining by some, Ald. Patrick O'Connor told his colleagues it finally was time for Chicago to face up to its woeful condition. O'Connor, an alderman since 1983, said decades of financial mismanagement had brought them to the point where approving a budget stacked with $755 million in new taxes and fees was the lone remaining option."
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Reminds me of a "60s" song
by Steven Haninger / October 30, 2015 1:47 AM PDT

written by Malvina Reynolds called "Little Boxes".


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Maybe they need to apply these rules to ...
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / October 28, 2015 11:31 AM PDT

Renters and homeowners with mortgages. (You don't own it?)

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check out the sheds
by James Denison / October 28, 2015 3:40 PM PDT
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