General discussion

Rudy says

Cohen has been lying for years.

Cohen has been TheRUMPs mouthpiece/defender/fixer for years.

Cohen has been lying FOR TheRUMP FOR years?

A logical conclusion to draw from HIS statements?

Discussion is locked

Reply to: Rudy says
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The logical conclusion I draw is ...

wait for it
All of men's governments are staffed by liars.
BTW we just had our annual convention. One of the points made was about "fake news": Only Jehovah's isn't. Works for me.

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RE:Only Jehovah's isn't

Could YOU get back to US AFTER YOU have been/ARE there?

Your claim might be more credible.

Of course some may dispute that you are "there" when you make your claim.

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Good point. Can't do that on stupidphone.

Coming soon, from a desktop near me.

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I can give quick answers to your OP.

You guess correctly. We do say we ARE there. Grin
The only credibility I worry about is from Jehovah. You make your own choices on whom to believe after hearing about Jehovah from us. It's what we do.
Dispute??? Putin throws us in jail for having discussions like this. We're "extremists". Why should we care when you and Toni dispute our beliefs? Whoddya think you are, anyway? Happy

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"At last! My arm is complete again!"

Please read Mt 6:9,10. That's the government we have, now. The scripture is a prayer, in the form of a prophecy for a time when all the earth will have that government, but there's nothing to keep us - or you - from acting as citizens of it now. For example, Isaiah 2:4 has another prophecy that only we take to heart, and practice as if it was a command for us.
Two citations, for you to read, ponder and respond to.
Or not.

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Ok...I think I'm getting it.

Fakes news is for real and climate change is fake news. There's no Face Book or Twitter account here so I'm lagging a bit behind the rest of the world. I'd know nothing outside of personal experience if it weren't for SE.

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(NT) Relevance?
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Couldn't decipher your post...something missing

You mentioned a point made about "fake news" but said nothing about what point was made. I deduced from your next sentence that man's news was the fake news so it was real. Since climate change is such a hot topic in man made news, it must be fake. Sorry if you didn't see the relevance. I wasted too much time spinning my head with it.

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Got it. My mistake.

Fake news of the current type was mentioned at one point, in a relevant manner. The speaker said, almost off-the-cuff, that any news that doesn't come from Jehovah is fake in some way. You'll see that we have to believe that, given the other things we believe.
Here are two examples, torn from today's ... ummm ... webpages.
'Global warming is real'. IMO that's becoming more acceptable, and don't make up your mind until you've talked to the people of Tonga and Vanuatu at least. 'It's caused by man.' Maybe, but heres

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the news from stupid phones.

Cause doesn't matter. There are worse things that are universally agreed on, from man.
Rev 11:18 closes with a simple statement about all disfunctions on the earth, especially the man-made. Sounds like braggadocio, but to us it's a simple newscast from the near future.
Collateral damage in war is increasing; in fact, it's becoming a meaningless phrase; kill 'em all is the watchword. That's man's news, which other men can call fake. Does not matter. Ps 46:9 says Jehovah is "bringing to an end to wars throughout the earth." Sounds foolish, especially since no one uses 'bow and spear' anymore. To us it's a simple newscast from the near future.
Now, the practical value of tossing aside Breitbart AND Reuters for 'Jehovah and friends': We clean up after ourselves and 'learn war no more'. Jehovah will take care of all problems in a perfect [= complete] manner. Anything else we did to "help", protests and such, would be useless and would tell Jehovah that we're more qualified than he is to run our own affairs. That was tried before; it didn't work; it's now one of the two main themes of the Bible. Gen 3.

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Sometimes you sound like my

ex-BIL......he had a wife, three kids, lived with his (my) MIL, barely worked to support them (MIL was the only one with real income), and left the state to pursue a music career. Fell on his face (how many harmonica players have made it to the big time), came back and decided the only way to 'make money' was to become a preacher and let the congregation support them all. He and his wife memorized the Bible, much like JW's do, so they could 'argue/debate' and started his own church, went to different countries as missionaries, and as far as I know, he's still running his scam successfully. I haven't bothered to look them up in 40+ years since my husband (he married my husband's sister) died in 1977. His entire attitude that he voiced often was 'if God wanted me to work, he would send someone to knock on the door and offer me a job'. I wonder how his congregation, who DID work in order to support their preacher) would have felt about that had they known?

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Toni, like most others here you are

ignorant of almost all our beliefs and practices. Like them, you continue to flaunt that ignorance instead of doing the correct, intelligent, sensible, courteous, sincere, TOS-approved thing by correcting it when given an opportunity to do so.
[The extreme case of this "argumentation" style of yours was practiced by Herman Goebbels.]
Here is a link to refutation of one particular point of your ignorance. It's based on facts that can be established by one visit to a Kingdom Hall. BTW the link and the visit will show any sincere person just how far your relative is from Christianity. Let's hope he's not as charismatic as Jim Jones or Vernon Howell.
>As you've said many times, you will refuse to read it or visit, so that you can hold on to your cherished ignorance.<
Which means your ignorance will be willful. That, in turn removes you from any intelligent, constructive, sensible part in any discussion about us or even the Bible.
I can post the link as often as you post in ignorance.
At least, we're no longer terrorizing you by coming to your door with the Bible's promise of good government. We know this because I showed you the procedure by which you could get the terrorism stopped. Of course, you did follow those instructions.
You did, didn't you?

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You keep making the same assumption

You keep claiming I'm ignorant...…….I actually worked for a couple who were JW's for nearly three years. They were in the service industry and I saw first hand how they mistreated the employees and talked down to them as if they weren't worthy because they weren't JW's or willing to be converted. They regularly cheated them on their paychecks, overcharged for their uniform cleanings and made them pay for their own uniforms with their company logo on them), overcharged for their health-care benefits (even to the point of charging for health care benefits when they had dropped it), etc. Being from a small town with little or no job prospects, these young guys didn't question those deductions because any job here was better than none at all. Their abuse extended to their three year old son....the office was a room built onto their extravagant house, but anyone coming through the door could hear that little boy crying all day long from being 'forced' into sleeping or playing quietly in his room the entire day except for meals so that 'mommy' could 'work'....her version of work was to sit in my office and oversee everything I did although I was hired originally to take over the workload she had to give her time with her son. She showed no interest in being a mother...she was more interested in being a control freak and spouting verses from the JW book all day long. Any attention that boy got came from his father, who was only a notch below his wife in his fanaticism. I was abruptly replaced with one of their JW members....I became unworthy as well. But even he didn't last any longer than three months and was 'fired' as well. Turnover in employment was pretty much a monthly were placed for replacements weekly during the whole time I was there. They demanded obedience and loyalty but not only didn't give any kindness to anyone, they literally stole from those they demanded it from. I don't know how many, if any, were ever able to collect unemployment....probably none of them (I was denied it because she claimed my work was unacceptable) because I don't think any of those guys worked there long enough to be eligible for anything. Perhaps that was a deliberate pattern of turnover. They eventually closed their business, sold their house, and left this town.

My experience with JW's is first hand...…...and spouting verses, which you do regularly, is only a reminder of the distrust I have for it.

You mentioned a day or so ago in one of your posts you surprise that I 'agreed' with you and that you would be called out for that. You would actually be even more surprised to find out that there are many things that you and I agree's just hard to get past the JW verse or your nonsensical babble (have you learned that from JP?) to figure out what you have actually wanted to say.

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At least, we're no longer terrorizing you by coming to your door with the Bible's promise of good government. We know this because I showed you the procedure by which you could get the terrorism stopped. Of course, you did follow those instructions.
You did, didn't you?

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Your ignorance of Jehovah's Witnesses is not assumed.

It's demonstrated in your posts.
One particular demonstrated area of your ignorance is addressed here.
Taking it in, along with a visit to a KH, would correct your ignorance. What we've seen is that you would rather remain ignorant. It pleases you; I don't know why.
At least, we're no longer terrorizing you by coming to your door with the Bible's promise of good government. We know this because I showed you the procedure by which you could get the terrorism stopped. Of course, you did follow those instructions.
You did, didn't you?

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OK, here's one. No one apologizes these days;

not manly, I guess. We "walk back".
I read your posts on your former employers, and that's indeed a sad story. Inexcusable behavior.*
It's also true that we don't have ID cards or such. We measure membership by behavior only. The obvious "visible" behaviors are three: merting attendance, personal study and the preaching [what you call terrorizing].
No Christian treats non-Christians badly. Can't be done. But there's no "evidence" of it, so some do, and continue to call themselves JWs for whatever reason.
Except: Jehovah knows. In my 30-some years I've seen many "secret sins" uncovered, something you wouldn't know about.
What I gave you is a quick and effective way to educate yourself about us, which you refuse to use. One link; one fact. So far, you choose to retain your vitriol. The Bible says that's unhealthy. So does modern psychiatry.

* I'm assuming your story is true. I've heard some horror stories about us that turned out to be almost complete lies. I'm sure yours is true, but that doesn't correct the ignorance you do have.

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My story is true....but

the exact same story is told many times over regarding ALL religions and many politicians....people get 'involved' in order to actually have POWER and INFLUENCE over others rather than as a tool to better serve. They become convinced that their way is the ONLY way and that conviction becomes hypnotic to them and the INTOLERANCE while preaching the opposite becomes ingrained in them.

I reject it all.....NOT out of ignorance but because of personal observations and experiences......

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So, we're back to Toni's square one.

Having ignorance, offered a way out of ignorance, rejecting the facts that would correct the ignorance. We meet many like you. Here's one, for example, on this very thread.
"Could YOU get back to US AFTER YOU have been/ARE there?"
Did get back with accurate knowledge; rejected.

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"accurate knowledge'

is in the eye of the beholder.....what is 'accurate' to some is 'fake news' to the rest of us. I would think that by now you would have learned how to graciously accept rejection and stop pushing your 'accuracy' on people who have already rejected it over and over again. But, like all JW's I've encountered, that's not acceptable behavior....being pushy is in your DNA.

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(NT) You have the link. Use ir. Learn.
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(NT) And you just proved my point...bye
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Consider this as well when trying to determine

what is fake and what is not. I'm going to offer that, even when someone trots out written history, much of it is either false, misleading or incomplete. There was an old joke about a person who didn't speak until he became discontent so everyone thought he might be deaf and mute. The same is said of surveys...that people only speak up when they are unhappy. I could think that, if true, quite a bit of our written history follows that same model. When folks are happy, they don't write about it. When they have something to complain about, they're all to happy to be vocal about it and record it. When was the last time you read a news article about people who felt all was going well. We know more about war and discontent than anything else. Thus, I could believe we focus more on that than anything else rather than find where peace lives. We also hear, and I believe it, that people often do bad things with good intentions. Yet, we only write about the bad. That said, how much about recorded history is of value as far as shaping our opinions peoples actions at times when we not even present to get a good sampling of all who were there? A bit prolix? Yep...I know.

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(NT) Your bottom line, as I take it, is to ignore all history.
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Of course not

I'm saying that there is history and there is "recorded" history but the two might not be identical in their accuracy or completeness. When we study it, we should be cautious when making judgements or shaping our opinions based solely on what was recorded...especially when we discuss events or periods when the truly literate were few and, of those were, some were far more prolific in their writing than others.

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Review your definitions.

"history and there is "recorded" history"
Recorded in oral traditions or in writing, accounts of the same incident should match. Otherwise, one of them isn't history.
A person might see your "history" as like, say, RCC Magisterium, while "recorded history" might be, say, the Bible. My experience with both is that there are great gaps between the two, yet the Church teaches this should not be so.
86. "Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God, but is its servant. It teaches only what has been handed on to it. At the divine command and with the help of the Holy Spirit, [Magisterium] listens to this devotedly, guards it with dedication and expounds it faithfully. All that it proposes for belief as being divinely revealed is drawn from this single deposit of faith."
Ever since Luther and his kind it has been possible for literate persons to compare Magisterium and scripture side by side. RCC teaching authority [Magisterium, by RCC definition] has suffered ever since.
My advice? Mow your lawn, wash your car, wear nice clothes, don't rock the boat. Then you'll be recognized as Catholic, giving a witness to the world.

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Well...another digression

to show contempt. My point was an extension of a previous discussion of "fake news" and, itself, a bit off topic. But your comment has taken this way off topic again and worthy of another padlock, IMO. My advice...learn to draw people toward you if you want their attention rather than acting as to push them away.

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OK, we'll go the other direction.

Your take on news and history reduces history to pure opinion. Got a document from an incident in history? Might be fake; Could be fake; Must be fake. That's the sequence that has got world political discussion to the point it is now.
The document is "recorded history", but it's the Goebbels version that survives.
Getting attention is best done by the most blatant statements, truth not required. That's not my goal, but it serves today's politicians and fear mongers.
Follow any part of the Toni and Bill show. All sorts of "facts" and "documents" cited, but at the end the same opinions are retained.

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You take on my post is pure fiction

I was simply offering the possibility that written history may not be reflective of the whole truth...that others who lived through events that didn't or couldn't write it down would have done so with different flavorings. FWIW, I think I've learned the "color" of history more from the music and tales of common folk that were handed down orally. War, famine, belligerent monarchs and such had affects on people that didn't make our history books. What we can usually get from such books is names, dates, places, body counts, etc., but we can't get the true psychological effects on the various classes of persons who lived back then. Thus, we apply our own imagination as to how they must have felt and who the heroes and demons were. We use our own standards in this effort and we probably get much of that wrong. When standards change, history gets revised and, often, the heroes and villains are reversed. Who knows the truth of any era better than the whole collective of persons who lived through it? No one, IMO, and no one can write all of that down.

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I kind of wonder

What kind of Deal Cohen made with the Feds to cover his tracks.
That raid on his office seemed very convenient .
You give us this and we'll give you immunity seems like a great Deal to me .
I'm wondering if Cohen is laughing all the way to his own freedom ...

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That's actually iffy re: his freedom

If he was willing to tape Trump, how many OTHER clients did he have that were being taped without their knowledge? NY has a 'one way' tape law meaning he doesn't need the consent of the other party, BUT that only pertains IF the other party was actually IN NY at the time of the recording....including Trump. IF taped conversations had the other person OUT OF STATE at the time the recordings are illegal. Undoubtedly he will lose his license to 'practice' law since he's an unethical pig, but I wonder how many of his clients can bring charges against him, not only for taping them for nefarious reasons, such as blackmail or cutting deals with authorities, which makes him a spy for the government/informant as he was, ahead of time, creating his own leverage should he ever need it. Clients might be able to bring criminal charges re: the taping if they can prove that they were NOT in NY at the time of the taping, even if the government tries to indict any of them based on whatever Cohen has on them on tape.

"Rudy says" also that although there are other tapes, no others have anything to do with Trump. As for the dirty porn star lawyer, HE claims there are plenty more tapes, enough to impeach Trump.....HOW would HE know? AND WHO LEAKED THE TRUMP TAPE TO THE PUBLIC/NEWS STATION AT THE EXACT MOMENT LANNY DAVIS WAS GIVING AN INTERVIEW ABOUT COHEN....AND THE TAPE?

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