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General discussion

Rosie tied the knot ...

Feb 27, 2004 3:23AM PST

... the heterosexual male population can breathe a sigh of relief Happy

Joke!

Evie Happy

Discussion is locked

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One thing that Rosie (and other gay couples in CA) may not have considered....
Feb 27, 2004 3:42AM PST

....is that California is a community property state. It will be interesting, should any of these marriages fail, to see whether the wealthier partner (not Rosie, of course Wink)tries to contest the validity of the marriage to get out of ponying up half his/her assets.

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Re:One thing that Rosie (and other gay couples in CA) may not have considered....
Feb 27, 2004 5:34AM PST

Hi, Josh.

I don't believe getting married in a particular state is relevant to whether property is or is not community property -- that depends on the state where you have legal residence.

-- Dave K.
Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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1-1/2 way street?
Feb 27, 2004 5:43AM PST

I think that people who marry outside of community property states cannot avoid the community property laws. Celebs living in CA can't just do the deed in another state. But I do believe that if one marries in a community property state that is accepting all the benefits AND responsibilities accompanying a marriage contract in that state. I would think that under circumstances such as this, if the marriage is deemed legal in CA, it is still not recognized in the other states. So if she sought a divorce, it would have to be from a CA court.

Evie Happy

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Re:One thing that Rosie (and other gay couples in CA) may not have considered....
Feb 27, 2004 7:10AM PST

Hi Josh,

I wonder if they CAN get a divorce? What if the marriages are legal, but homosexual divorce is not an option? Boy, some folks are really gonna be sad when the hangover comes. Wink

Cindi

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LOL
Feb 27, 2004 7:13AM PST

Hi Cindi,

That happened recently. Can't recall where, but the couple married in Vermont and tried to get a divorce in another state. I think eventually some sympathetic judge found a way around the issue that they weren't technically married in the eyes of that State's law, but it took a while.

BTW, any good news on the house?

Evie Happy

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Yes, we sold it!
Feb 28, 2004 1:02AM PST

It's still contingent on the home inspection. They've got that set up for Tuesday afternoon.

Cash buyer, so we could close and be in Carolina in very short order! (If I suddenly disappear from the boards awhile, we're likely busy moving) Happy

Cindi

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Re:Yes, we sold it! -- CONGRATS! (NT)
Feb 28, 2004 1:05PM PST

.

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NT - Congratulations Cindi!!!
Feb 28, 2004 1:47PM PST
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Great news Cindi - hope the move goes well :) NT
Feb 29, 2004 2:48AM PST

NT

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NT Thanks, Dave, Blake, and Steve. :-)
Feb 29, 2004 3:12AM PST

.

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Terrific!
Feb 29, 2004 8:16PM PST

I owe you an email one of these days!

A cash buyer is awesome. Almost had one for the condo back when. Do you have NC digs picked out yet?

Evie Happy

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Re:Terrific!
Mar 1, 2004 12:39AM PST

Hi Evie,

Yes, Greg and I found a home when were there at Christmastime, we just hope it hasn't sold. If so, we'll pick out another, Greg has land there to put it on, utilites are already there.

Cindi

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(NT) Good luck, and an advance welcome to NC, hope you enjoy it here.
Mar 2, 2004 1:44AM PST
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I don't think gays worry too much about the law.
Feb 27, 2004 11:47AM PST

They just go with what feels good. Ever meet a guy who deserted his family for another guy? It is too bad.

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Failed Relationships...
Feb 27, 2004 2:32PM PST
Ever meet a guy who deserted his family for another guy? It is too bad. - Kiddpeat

Very strange logic KP. Have you ever met or heard of a guy who left his family for another woman? Have you ever met or heard of a gal who left her family for another man? Why do you consider your example worse? These are all examples of relationships that have failed for one reason or another...

In your example, the guy was probably trying to be something he wasn't due to societal pressures. Once he realized he couldn't continue living that way, he stopped living his lie and moved out. I can't imagine any married heterosexual waking up one day and deciding to become homosexual and I doubt that homosexuals can ever decide to be heterosexual even though they may try, just to fit into society...
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More like false pretenses.
Feb 28, 2004 10:11AM PST

The wife doesn't have a chance to compete. That's quite different from adultery, although adultery is nothing to write home about. The spouse and kida are left in the lurch with no hope, and the bitter aftertaste of deceit from the very beginning. Not at all comparable to a failed heterosexual marriage. The wife has lost to another guy! The husband has lost to another woman! The kids are just abandoned! Very different indeed!

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No Huge Surprise...
Feb 28, 2004 1:41PM PST
Not at all comparable to a failed heterosexual marriage. The wife has lost to another guy! The husband has lost to another woman! The kids are just abandoned! Very different indeed! - Kiddpeat

That's yet another wild leap of logic. You assume just because a man leaves his wife for another man or a woman leaves her husband for another woman, that the kids are abandoned? Wow. First the kids have the other parent still and the probability is pretty much the same that the departing parent will continue to be a part of his/her kids' life as before. That would be no different than if the departing parent left the spouse for an opposite sex partner. People tend to act the same about their off-spring regardless of their sexual orientation. There are both good and bad parents on either side...

I find it difficult to believe that a wife who loses a husband to another man, or a husband who loses a wife to another woman wouldn't have seen/known the little clues about their spouse revealing the attractions toward the same sex. I believe that most marriages built on lies were never really marriages at all. When a partner leaves a spouse for a same sex relationship, I highly doubt that the marriage was ever healthy because of the lie. It's difficult for me to believe that the final break-up would be a huge surprise...
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Have you ever known a spouse or kids in this situation?
Feb 28, 2004 3:27PM PST

Time to stop the theorizing and propaganda. I've not met a spouse who knew about it 'all along'. It's been hidden, remember? The kids are always devastated by the loss of a parent. Doubly so when it is all too apparent that its a one way street for the voluntarily, departing parent. This parent wants out even though the spouse and kids do not want the split. That intensifies the abandonment that is experienced.

'the probability is pretty much the same that the departing parent will continue to be a part of his/her kids' life as before', and how is this bit of legerdemain accomplished with the parent immersed in a new relationship?

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The same way as if the departing spouse were straight, of course.
Feb 29, 2004 10:51PM PST

Why would the affections of the departing parent vary based on their orientation? Do you feel that gays are not capable of loving children as well as straights are?

Dan

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Dan, you love red herrings don't you?
Mar 1, 2004 4:31AM PST

Neither partner should leave, and where did I say that the affections of the departing parent vary based on their orientation? I did say that the damage done can be more severe.

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If there's a fishmonger it's you.
Mar 1, 2004 5:03AM PST

You brought up the point that divorce is worse when one partner leaves because they find out they're gay. Is that still your argument?

Divorce is to be avoided in any family, but divorce for this reason is just as bad as divorce for most reasons.

Dan

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If it makes you feel better
Mar 1, 2004 5:33AM PST

I think anyone who's married to a spouse that declares they are gay and want to leave because of that, probably should let them go. It might protect them from HIV if this person didn't already give it to them.

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I didn't feel bad, but thanks for your concern. -nt
Mar 1, 2004 5:47AM PST

.

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Re:If it makes you feel better
Mar 1, 2004 11:37PM PST
It might protect them from HIV if this person didn't already give it to them.

They've all got rhythm too, y'know.
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Yes, it is worse for the spouse and kids.
Mar 1, 2004 6:03AM PST

That's what I said. Where did the bit about gays caring less for their kids come from?

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Re:Yes, it is worse for the spouse and kids.
Mar 1, 2004 10:15PM PST

You wrote:
***
The wife doesn't have a chance to compete. That's quite different from adultery, although adultery is nothing to write home about. The spouse and kida are left in the lurch with no hope, and the bitter aftertaste of deceit from the very beginning. Not at all comparable to a failed heterosexual marriage. The wife has lost to another guy! The husband has lost to another woman! The kids are just abandoned! Very different indeed!
***

You're saying that the kids are just abandoned by the gay parent. Why are the kids anymore abandoned in a divorce where one partner discovers they are gay? Why is the feeling of the family any worse than for drugs or overwork or just plain abandonment?

Dan

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because those other things provide a rationale as to why it happened.
Mar 1, 2004 11:21PM PST

Abandonment, of course, is abandonment, and is what a gay who leaves is doing. It leaves the family no means of understanding the loss, and no hope of overcoming the problem. Anger, drugs, etc. offer an explanation, a reason for the split. Abandonment sends the family the message that they aren't worth the necessary sacrifice.

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Re:because those other things provide a rationale as to why it happened.
Mar 1, 2004 11:36PM PST
Abandonment, of course, is abandonment, and is what a gay who leaves is doing.

Again, you're assuming that a man or woman who divorces his/her spouse because he/she is gay is never going to see his/her kids again. That's just plain silly. When I was in college I had a job, and my supervisor was gay. His partner was a divorced man with kids. He had a good relationship with them.

My own (straight) father, on the other hand, was a deadbeat dad who went to great lengths, including having his name legally changed, to avoid paying child-support. I haven't seen him in 30 years.

So which of those two men abandoned his family?

Anger, drugs, etc. offer an explanation, a reason for the split.

And homosexuality doesn't? You don't think a drug addict who refuses to get help is sending the family a message that they're not worth the effort?
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You lost me on the first paragraph. You are asserting things
Mar 2, 2004 1:36AM PST

that I didn't say or assume. Since the rest of your post seems to go from there, its hard to respond to.

As for your Dad, at least you had the mental defense that your parents argued all the time, and you were better off without him. It's easier to accept his departure under those conditions.

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You said that when a couple divorces because one of them is gay....
Mar 2, 2004 2:04AM PST

....that the children are abandoned. I gave you an example illustrating that this is not necessarily so, and also provided an example of a divorce in which homosexuality was not involved, but in which the children were deserted by their father. What part of it was confusing?