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Romney steps in it again

Romney agrees: U.S. businesses 'doing fine'

Nearly three months ago, President Obama was asked at a press briefing about the economy. "The truth of the matter is that, we've created 4.3 million jobs over the last 27 months -- over 800,000 just this year alone," he said. "The private sector is doing fine. Where we're seeing weaknesses in our economy have to do with state and local government, oftentimes cuts initiated by governors or mayors who are not getting the kind of help that they have in the past."

The political world ignored the context, went bonkers, and the Romney-Ryan ticket continues to reference the "doing fine" line just about every day as proof of, well, I'm not entirely sure. Apparently, we're supposed to think Obama's out of touch or something.

Last night, however, there was an unexpected twist -- Romney largely endorsed Obama's line.

Speaking at a fundraiser, Romney said that "big business is doing fine in many places," a remark that sounded similar to Obama's now infamous proclamation that "the private sector is doing just fine."

In fact, Romney's comments are arguably worse, because he went on to say big businesses are "doing fine" because they can utilize "low tax havens around the world."

Really? Like stashing cash in the Caymans and creating shell corporations in Bermuda?

My money says that Romney participated in that amnesty program in 2009 and that's why he doesn't want anyone seeing his tax returns.
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RE: My money says
My money says that Romney participated in that amnesty program in 2009 and that's why he doesn't want anyone seeing his tax returns.

Here's the latest version

Ann Romney: I love tithing. When Mitt and I give that check, I actually cry.

Mitt Romney : So do I, but for a different reason.

MR: Our church doesn't publish how much people have given. This is done entirely privately. One of the downsides of releasing one's financial information is that this is now all public, but we had never intended our contributions to be known. It's a very personal thing between ourselves and our commitment to our God and to our church.
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Oh my goodness

He's trying to use God as his alibi?


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actually a very valid reason

Bible says to give in secret to those in need, but those who do it publicly have already gained their reward. It's not a legal requirement for tax returns to be displayed for public office.

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I agree about not making tax records public

They should really have no bearing unless the person is guilty of tax evasion. I'd think that requiring a candidate to undergo an IRS audit could go a long way making these squabbles go away. I see no value in having a contest to see who will release more years of data than another in an effort to gain brownie points with the public.

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Ahhh, but that's just it

If Romney used an Amnesty program to get out of a tax evasion charge, that's something we ought to know, don't you think?

And no, James, it's not a legal requirement (nor is the presentation of a birth certificate, or two of them). It's just been a custom for the last 40 years or so, a custom begun by Romney's own father and which every candidate since then has followed until now.

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Romney should add a "privacy plank"

into his campaign, explaining how could he stand for protecting everyone else's right to privacy if he allowed his own to be violated to such a degree. He could make it a positive if he did that.

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(NT) but what comes under privacy besides your financials?
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I assume......

......that you apply the same standards of privacy to Obama's college transcripts. Yes?

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As I recall

My question has always been concerning possible fraud, as in how he represented himself for admission (affirmative action, student aid, slots reserved for foreign students, etc.) and especially if any monies or scholarships were received under false information given. It does bring up a point though, if we should have any academic requirements for someone running for President. Of course there are those it seems schools just "push through" which really does a disservice to whomever may hire them based simply on a degree given.

School records, especially at time of attendance, aren't really all that private anyway. For one thing it's obvious those given various awards, scholarships, academic designations are usually doing better in school than others, such as Bill Clinton receiving a Rhodes Scholarship. It could sure be a problem if someone was elected and about as intelligent as a tree stump.

How do you feel about office seekers giving voters an idea of how they did in school as one means to determine if they feel the person is qualified for office?

Really, it comes down to the electorate, whether it's school records or financial records, they choose what they are willing to have withheld from them when voting for a person.

Romney's best approach about keeping records private is to challenge Obama to a mutual exposition of records voters have asked for from both of them. I don't really think either, if made known, will make much difference come voting time.

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(NT) Then Romney would need to show his tax records
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(NT) No, because the IRS checks them
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"about as intelligent as a tree stump"

So I assume you were at the forefront of those wanting to see W's college transcripts?

And your questions about Obama's college admission go to exactly what I'm getting at, which is that the doubts about his academic record are racially based, whereas the doubts about W's academic record were based on his being a boob.

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(NT) enough doubt to go around.
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an audit?

good one Steve, since an IRS audit is one nightmare of the rich, middleclass, and working poor.

20 tax lawyers at a table and you at the other, that's about the way it goes at an IRS hearing.

Taxes may be a necessary evil type of thing but the IRS is always the bogey man.

I file standard returns, can't imagine what they'd audit, but I'd be really agitated if I got a notice of an IRS audit.

Of course, like most things, the rich have the edge. One they can afford the accountants and lawyers to barely skirt the limits, or hide excursions. Two, the IRS rather audit people that don't have accountants and lawyers on staff, it makes for much quicker successful "unpaid tax recover" reports and a good "conviction record" for the auditors.


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Whatever the downside, it can't be worse than

opening someone's complex financial data in front of a bunch of novices who may not be able to keep a simple bank account reconciled or know when they've overdrawn or can't possible pay down their credit card in a normal lifetime. The very wealthy employ accountants to do that work for them as the tax system is far more complex than standard form filers can even imagine. Why would or should we look at their returns when we'd have no clue how to interpret them?

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And that's what you think would happen if Romney

produced tax returns...

A bunch of people (novices) that make 14k a year would be writing assessments of his financial dealings?

Why would or should we look at their returns when we'd have no clue how to interpret them?

Using that logic...Don't ask for anything?

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Not what I think would happen

You'd have a bunch of news media types and pseudo financial experts creating banter about the return and generating a list of questions and suppositions that would just cause us to wonder. Anything that cannot be understood or reconciled in the minds of the rest of us becomes a matter for suspicion whether there's reason to or not. We fear what we cannot understand and think that it might be something evil.

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So don't tell anyone anything

just in case they don't/won't understand?

Hello mushroom?

and even if they do understand ...their words mean nothing.

Is this what you're talking about?

Amid the chatter, some Republicans note the document is largely meaningless. Mitt Romney is not bound to implement any of it if elected president. It's a vision document, not a party constitution.

New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, the convention keynote speaker, told WNYC earlier this week that most Republicans probably don't know what's in the platform, nor do they care.

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Would you like to see Romny's tax records?

If "yes", what purpose or enjoyment would you get from viewing them? Would you understand what you were looking at? Would it possibly alter your decision as to whether or not he's a worthy candidate ?

Who else tax records would you like to see?...or maybe you'd like to compare candidate's first kindergarten drawings as having some significance as to their blooming personalities.

Maybe it's not a bad idea to look at what a person has done to improve their own status in life if we're wanting someone to help us improve ours. Jobs and the economy are about money. Do we need more lessons in how to spend it or how to earn and save it?

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Every candidate for the last 40-odd years....

.....has released 12 years' worth of tax returns. Romney's own father started the tradition, explaining that just releasing one or two years' worth -- especially one or two years when the person knew they'd be running for president, wouldn't tell anyone anything.

You can see Obama's and Biden's returns right now by going to their website. It's all there.

If you're going to refer to kindergarten drawings you're not far off from those who have demanded to see all of Obama's school transcripts. That has NOT been a tradition and Obama is the first to be subjected to demands for school transcripts, birth certificates, etc.

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Then you want to see the tax records...

or just know they've been released?

Really, Josh, from what I see too often is that the only qualifier most voters want is to see the "D", "R", or other party designation after their name. Once they've seen that, they'll defend or condemn regardless of what the person has done or claims they'll do.

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If you can prove you're qualified to understand my responses

I'll respond.

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(NT) I rarely understand your responses or motives behind them.
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RE: I rarely understand your responses or motives

I rarely understand your responses or motives behind them

you have everyone else pegged.

from what I see too often is that the only qualifier most voters want is to see the "D", "R", or other party designation after their name. Once they've seen that, they'll defend or condemn regardless of what the person has done or claims they'll do.

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With all the villainous acts that Romney

has in his past record, why would he dare walking in public during daylight. Why did his mother even allow him to live. The man, from discussion here and in some of the media, is unfit to call himself a citizen of the USA. You'd never think that anyone could be as miserable a candidate than Romney until Ryan came along.

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Wow, then where does that leave Obama?

somewhere back in Kenya? Devil

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How far back do you want to go?

We all come from somewhere else if we go back far enough. Even if YOU want to quote the bible.

I can easily picture someone from Kenya denying a certain white person being a distant relative.

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(NT) race card again?
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with some it's "again"

with others it's "still"

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Your deliberate exaggerations aside....

.....he's hiding something. Period.

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