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General discussion

researching camcorders... long rec time, high quality, etc..

by pianoplayer88key Nov 6, 2006 4:25PM PST

Hi. I'm wondering if anyone has any recommendations on camcorders...

I'd like:
price under $1250 (but I may be flexible a little bit, as I am working now, and I may not buy this until early-mid June 2007)
decent resolution video (at least 480 lines, 720 or even 1080 lines would be nicer)
decent in low light (as in indoors at night, for example (for you still photography experts, the light levels might often dictate an exposure of 1/8", ISO 400, F/2.8 for a still photo, give or take a stop or two))
a fairly long optical zoom (prefer at least 16-20x, more would be nice)
ability to record at the highest quality setting for AT LEAST 2 hours continuously. Four hours (or even 6 or Cool would be really nice.
Also, should I go with some form of tape, or HD recording?
I don't want something huge (like one of the professional HD cameras that TV crews use, and btw what are those giants that they use at baseball games?), but it doesn't need to fit in my pocket either. That is a compromise I'm willing to make in order to get better quality without breaking the bank. (I probably will also be willing to make other compromises too - I just need to find out what is available, and I am having trouble finding it in the reviews, partially cause I don't know where to look.)
Also, manual controls would be REALLY nice to have, as well as a good LCD.

Also, what would be a good tripod to get?

Discussion is locked

8 Posts
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That kills any camcorder. How about DVRACK?
by r. proffitt Forum moderator Nov 6, 2006 10:48PM PST

Look up DVRACK (google.com) and see how I could meet your specs with an all digital soltution.

Bob

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R. Proffit's right...
by boya84 Nov 7, 2006 2:49AM PST

The reasons it "kills any camcorder" out there:

Record time: MiniDV is 1 hour at best quality. That includes whether you record in Standard Definition or High Definition (presuming the camera has this capability) video.

Record time: MiniDVD is 20-30 minutes at best quality. If you use double sided discs, you need to flip it when the first side is full. Compression will pull down image quality.

Hard drive based camcorders *might* provide long enough time, but not at "best resolution". Sony hard drive based High Definition camcorders (and Sony High Definition DVD-based camcorders) use a new compression method (AVCHD) - there are currently no codecs available from nearly any of the video editing application manufacturers - not even Sony - to edit video captured in that format.

http://www.sonymediasoftware.com/products/product.asp?PID=404&PageID=40

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVCHD

There is a software "converter" for an extra step if it means that much to you, but it is an extra step.

You seem to be looking for the old VHS full format camcorder - with new optics and electronics. I don't believe they exist. For sure one that would fit in your pocket does not exist - the VHS full format tape is bigger than that (unless you count cargo pants pockets).

You might be able to do something with a Canon camcorder using an external hard drive storage device, but the combination of the camera and the external drive(s) will take you out of your stated budget...

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=StandardDisplayAct&fcategoryid=102&keycode=camcorder_accessory

http://www.firestore.com/solutions/catalog.asp?id=3

The "giants that they use at baseball games" are typically not camcorders, just cameras connected by a thick cable (or wireless for the roaming folks) back to a BIG trailer with a bunch of monitors (1 camera/1 monitor so the director can pick the shots that the TV viewers see) and racks of tape decks and hard drives and video controllers (for all the special effects and overlay graphics and instant replays) and audio mixing board(s)... Anyway, I think the cheap broadcast cameras start at about $20,000, and don't forget a deck to capture the images - but neither will fit in your pocket - not even cargo pants...

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Lets come back down to earth!!!
by jcrobso Nov 7, 2006 6:38AM PST

Lets say your going car shopping, you want a new Corvette, but you only have $1250. Not going to happen.

Re think your request, for $1250 you can get an very good MiniDV camera, High quality, good zoom lens, record at 640x480, one hour in standard mode, 90min in EP mode. john

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HDD is the way to go.....
by whizkid454 Nov 7, 2006 6:51AM PST

I know all you die-hard miniDV fans are tired of me saying HDD is better and all that, but for this post, the only format is HDD. Look at the Sony DCR-SR100 or the HDR-SR1. These are two wondeful HDD camcorders. The SR100 is about $800-900. Great video!! The SR1(because its brand new) is about $1300-1500. SR1 is HD (1080i)!! Wonderful video!! SR1 has many manual controls and such as well. Also, close to your budget. Can record in HD for about 4 hours!! Definitely worth the extra money. You might just have to wait for the software to come out though which shouldn't be that long. :/ Good luck!!

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whizkidd 454, what exactly are you doing with that
by boya84 Nov 7, 2006 9:43AM PST

High Definition footage you have taken with your SR1?

Sorry I have so many questions - I really want to learn - and do not mean any of this as a slam anywhere or spread FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt) or anything like that - but I think everyone else may want at least some of this info, too... And sending these questions to your private email defeats the purpose of this discussion forum... anyway, here goes:

Did your UX1 come with a "converter" to translate AVCHD's MPEG4/H.264 to MPEG2?

How long does the translation take on a 15 minute AVCHD clip to get to 1080i HighDef clip that your editors can work with?

Can that same AVCHD clip with the same translator get to 720i/p or Standard Definition or does the video editor take care of the downsampling... or does the DVD burner app take care of the downsampling?

If there is a different step to do downsampling work to SD, what is it?

I presume you need to translate because Sony Vegas7, Adobe Premiere and pretty much all other Windows video editors or Apple's iMovie or FinalCut video editors do not yet read AVCHD files directly... or do you edit in your camcorder and not in your camera?

http://www.sonymediasoftware.com/products/product.asp?PID=404&PageID=40

Six months just seems like a long time to store video on another hard drive (not in your camcorder) for later editing... but maybe that is just me... I know you have had your camera longer than that, so apparently you are a much more patient person than I...

http://www.avchd-info.org/ these companies "have expressed support", but some of that support is for BluRay HD playback in new DVD decks - not codecs or translators for AVCHD on computers. I went to several video application manufacturers' sites (listed right after this paragraph) , and using their web site's search engine at the main home page used "AVCHD"... and no hits:

Adobe
Canon
Canopus
CyberLink (says PowerDirector will OUTPUT in MPEG4/H.264, but I can't find anything on accepting INPUT of that same format for direct editing, and they don't have a search, so it took me a while to read through their propaganda - um - product descriptions, so I *could* have missed something - I finally found a "search" in their FAQs, but using "AVCHD" returned no hits.)
Nero (says they support MPEG4, but did not specify MPEG4/H.264 - so I can't tell if they are AVCHD compliant - and there is no search function at their site that I could find)
uLead does not list the SR1 on their compatability chart
http://www.ulead.com/tech/general/compatibility.htm
and I could not find any search field...

The other thing I find interesting is that apparently Panasonic is working with Sony on AVCHD too, but they aren't part of this industry organization. Searching Panasonic.com returned 3 press releases addressing the "joint licensing" with Sony, but no specific product consumer announcements - which I guess does not mean *that* much - they could just be slow to market with their camcorders behind Sony... or they *could* just be focused on Blu-Ray DVD players - I can't tell.

I use Apple gear anyway, so I guess I don't "care" for anything more than understanding what other gear is being used and how it is being used - and all these folks make only Windows apps... And while Apple is not listed at the AVCHD web site, they are at the BluRay web site - so I don't understand why one and not the other... Very confusing.

http://www.blu-raydisc.com/

Or do you just copy the files to another hard drive for later editing when the AVCHD codec(s) are available in you video editor of choice?

I do agree that the SR1 has the longest record time... I think the SR1 [sort of] made the short list with the caveate that it would not be a good idea to record in HiDef because of AVCHD... And that would allow for longer record time in Standard Def (which any of the listed editors can work with)...

So... A little education for all of us, please?

Thanks!

Bill

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(NT) (NT) Oops... sorry - I mean your SR1...
by boya84 Nov 7, 2006 9:44AM PST
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Questions but no answers.....
by whizkid454 Nov 7, 2006 10:21AM PST

Im sorry but I do not own an HDR-SR1. I'm not sure where you saw that I said I did but I don't. Sorry for no answers for that long post. I would like to know the answers to those questions too.

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no worries - my bad
by boya84 Nov 7, 2006 11:53AM PST

I must have somehow transposed your SR100 ownership and SR1 recommendations... sorry.

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