Reformatting Hard Drive Multiple Times - Harmful or Not?

I'm posting again because as you can see from the last discussion, the responses I received were somewhat vague and ultimately left me with more questions than answers (see "Depends" thread). No one responded when I followed up and it appears that that particular discussion has now died.

So I thought I would post again on this forum to see if I can get more comprehensive responses.

If I've broken any rules, please let me know. That was not my intent.

If you use a DOS or Windows CD to format with, the wear/tear is EXACTLY the same as any other read/write operation.

Opinions will differ so you will read many answers.

bob

Thank you for replying. So these things I've been hearing about potentially damaging sectors and creating I/O errors when reformatting multiple times are irrelevant and untrue?

And what about what the other poster said how "low level" formats can damage IDE drives? And what is an IDE drive (vs. an SCSI drive)? How can I find out what I have?

(Please know I'm a kind of a novice, hence the questions)

Yes, you could create issues IF there was a lowlevel format available. But such haven't existed (or worked) since hard disk sizes went past 1GB. Only the factory and a special test jig does the true low level today.

While you may see low level in some tools, its there to buy off those who insist they want it.

Why the interest?

Bob

I'm sorry. I don't even know what a low level format is. This was something brought up by a poster in the other thread. He mentioned that low level formats can be harmful for IDE drives. I don't know what an IDE drive is either.

So my questions boil down to this -

1) Low level formats and normal formats vs. quick formats and full formats? Same things?

2) What is IDE drive vs. an SCSI drive? How can I tell what I have?

3) And what does all this mean in terms of potential harm to my own computer insofar as performing multiple formats?

4) What about these things I've been hearing about potentially damaging sectors and creating I/O errors when reformatting multiple times? True or False?

To answer your question, the interest stems from the fact that I've formatted my HD multiple times (for a variety of reasons which I outlined in the other thread) and because I'm very careful with and protective of my computer, I want to make sure I wasn't harming it. Plus, I think it's just good information to know.

a useful life of 48,000 OPERATING hours. That is when wearout becomes into play. The drives can be operated in any possible orientation.

There is simply no way that formatting the drive every couple of weeks will make a dent on that.

Hard drive failures are simply the luck of the draw. Kicking the drive or tower while the drive is running is somthing to not do. Not adequately cooling the drive is a bad thing. Other than that stop the worrying.

IDE simply "Integrated Drive Electronics" means that there is a circuit card phyically on the drive to control it. IDE, EIDE simply adds enhanced, and are backwards compatible. Back in the early days the drive electronics were located elsewhere. ATA and SATA drives are both IDE type drives.

SCSI is "Small Computer System Interface". I am quite certain that if you had a SCSI you would know it. They cost much more, require rather expensive controllers and no one would buy them unless they knew that they wanted the speed that they can attain. Normal mobos only have IDE or SATA controllers built in.

Low level formatting puts the drive back the way the disk was when you received it new. It is not a normal thing that users are supposed to do, thus just ignore it..

Quick formats simply make all the clusters to be identified to the system as available for use, even though there is still old data in them. Full format overwrites much of the data.

As I posted in another thread, Seagate is now warranting their drives for 5 years. They couldn't care less about you reformatting the drive.

Thanks so much, Ray, for the comprehensive response. After some investigation, it appears I have an ATA IDE drive as you predicted.

So what is the difference between low level formatting, which you say puts the drive back the way it was when it was new, and full formatting, which overwrites all the data? Is that not the same thing?

FYI - so I just got off the phone with yet another tech support rep for my computer. He said that the reason why multiple formats could potentially harm the computer is because when you're formatting, there is some lens that rubs against the disk at high speed. It is that rubbing, if done often enough, that potentially damages the disk and causes problems when the reformat process is trying to create new partitions.

a specific file sytem on the disk [either FAT, 16 or FAT 32, NTFS FAT = File allocation Table [either 16 bits allocated to the number of clusters allowed or 32 bits. Was 12 bits before that]. NTFS is a different file system and the latest that differs from the FAT system in capabilities for security and other aspects [it still uses clusters]. The file system is required in order for the operating system to know how to locate the data stored on the disk.

A cluster is the minimum space that data can occupy on a disk. The size of the disk and the number of bits in the FAT determine how many clusters can be on the drive and how big a cluster is.

Let's say the cluster size is 32 KB. If you put a 1 KB file on the disk, it will occupy one cluster [32 KB]. This is a simple fact of life and is called cluster waste or cluster loss. Modern drives have so huge a capacity, the cluster waste isn't even discussed as an issue.

Low level format does not create clusters, it simply writes zeros to fill up the disk, with no way to find a specific bit by any operating system.

The formatting FAT/NTFS are required in order to have some way for the operating system to find the data on the disk.

A low level formatted disk must be formatted [FAT or NTFS]in order to put data on it that is retrievable by an operating system. Again of LLF is of zero practical use to use everyday people.

Re the Tech support person. He is simply incorrect. There ain't no such thing as a lens in a hard drive. Lenses and lasers are in CD drives and they usually fail by the laser burning out, NOT by dragging on the CD!!!!

A hard drive can have one to four disks [platters] in them and have read heads on both sides of each disk. They are magnetic heads on arms that constantly move all around the platters when the drive is in use. If they ever drag on the disk surface the disk is damaged. This event can't occur very often if the damned drive can run continuously for 5 years.

The read heads ride closer the the platter than the thickness of a human hair, but they don't touch the platter due to the Bernoulli effect [check your physics book]. The gentleman is so incorrect it is embarrassing. The read heads are moving anytime the drive is being accessed and no differently than if the drive was being formatted. He is correct in one respect, if the heads drag on the platter the drive is damaged, sometimes irreparably. In rare instances it can happen and a cluster can get damaged. This will be detected when one runs scan disk, and scan disk will relocate the data and close the cluster out.
This is why one shouldn't kick the tower or move it while the hard drive is operating.

Thanks again, Ray. A bit technical for a novice like me, but I think I follow.

So can I now say with certainty that repeated formatting, regardless of whether it is a quick or full format (the 2 options provided by Windows when undergoing this procedure) will NOT potentially harm my hard drive?

And that warnings about potentially damaging sectors or creating I/O errors or whatever are erroneous?

What I gather from your responses is that it is the wear and tear that harms the hard drive, not the formatting process itself.

Re: the tech support agent - now you can understand why I'm confused and have so many questions.

formatting is a rather smooth movement of the read heads because they basically simply progress through the disk sectors in order.

A function such as defragging has the heads moving all over constantly, moving data from one place to another to clear space to put a program's files in a contiguous group of clusters. A real workout. LOL, and most users defrag far more often than reformatting.

Just one other piece of information Modern hard drives, when they are turned off, park the heads over a section of the platter, likely to never get used. If one manhandles the drive when it is off, and causes the head to strike the platter surface, there is little damage and it is to a place not needed. When it is off there is no Bernoulli effect and the platter is not spinning, so no long section gets dragged with the head scratching it.

Back when drives were 10, 20, 30, MB [yes Megabytes. LOL] one had to run a head parking routine to to do this. From 40 MB up it became automatic.

No matter what, get into the habit of backing up your important data frequently. Hard drives can and will eventually fail. Got two running over 5 years, but not continuously.

Now find something else to worry about. Enjoy.

Thanks, Bob, for the link. My drive is 120G, so I should be ok. Besides, I think you said that low level formats don't exist for most computers nowadays.

to computers, it is a hard drive subject only.

What is the real use of "low level formatting"? I understood that full format will clean the junk OS left behind, but then why LLF exist?

And LLF was for drives even older than that. Even today we placate end users by supply software that does what they want but behind the scenes does something else.

LLF is on the web for you to discover why old drives needed it.
Bob