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General discussion

Ray Harinec- opinion please

Oct 3, 2004 2:41PM PDT

Hi Ray (and anyone else who wants to jump in)

I'm ready to make my move for a P4 upgrade. I've conferred with my techies, and they're able to sell me an upgrade kit, P4 3.0 w/HT, 800 Mhz bus for ~$295. The use retail cpus too, not oem. I got my 'bro in law a 3.0 chip for $199; not bad, huh?

Anyway, I've been looking over chipset- you've recommended a 875, correct? Well, I came across this article on an 865 chipset, and when if you have the time, can you give me your take?
http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/roundupmobo/roundup-i865-jun2k3-p1.html

My techies like Foxconn motherboards, because they prefer stability over other features, like overclocking. I've looked at some Foxconn boards, and they don't look too bad; certainly not top of the line, but does the job. The made a system for my 'bro in law using a Foxconn. Foxconn's are cheaper of course, but they tend to like simple boards so they don't have to repair/replace their hardware for people that screw up. They trust me enough to not do something too hairbrained, so they'll pretty much order any board I ask.

They'll get me an Asus, my preferred board, w/Raid, Sata (ok, you've convinced me, even though I don't have any SATA HDDs, lol). I'd appreciated your opinion, which I value very much.

I also intend to get a full tower case, and 2 gigs of ram, so I'm looking at prob ~$500-600. I don't want to skimp, but I can't afford a real high end motherboard. I prefer stability also, but would like a bit of room to mess with OCing, but will stay with mostly default settings as I always have. As I've always said, I trust these guys- if a Foxconn meets my specs as far as RAID, SATA, I may just go for it to save some $$. I really don't know how important dual-channel is, as I believe both of us have agreed that the increased bandwidth is negligible. Anything else you can think of? I kind of foresee this happening in the next 2 weeks. If this doesn't happen by Thanksgiving, I may as well forget about it cuz the holiday season will be in full swing.

If your eyes aren't up to the task to the link I provided, I'll understand; I wouldn't want you straining your eyes. But any input is appreciated as always. I'd even consider a SiS chipset as they've seem to have gotten better, but I need an outside opinion independent of mine and my techies. Thanks much in advance.

Discussion is locked

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You are leaning on a weak crutch in me.
Oct 3, 2004 11:11PM PDT

I have read a number of articles that say the 865 chipset is a better chipset if one takes price into consideration.

Why is your BIL's chip lower price??? No HT?

My problem is that I have no one else to feed, so if I decide to get some computer parts, I don't factor the price in as strongly as most people would, thus the $220 Gigabyte mobo [of course that was a year ago when the 875p first came out].

The biggest problem that I find with many articles on the inet is that they usually don't put the date on them. The 875p is no longer a new chipset, Intel has 2 newer. Still the 865p is a totally adequate chipset. I don't recall reading of any problems with them.

I don't know if this is of any interest, but Intel chipsets only support up to ATA 100. They don't support ATA 133 because they figure that SATA will be used for faster drives [we know that none of the drives ever ran at 133].

Other than that, I always try to get a RAID controller that will also run both ATA and ATAPI. [this is my main input re a mobo]

I also have found out that a case with a top exhaust and side intake [as well as the front and rear] provide great cooling. Not very many to choose from.

There is a cheapie at newegg,[Maxtop 28.50 plus 16 shipping] but most people would say they are really cheesy, but I don't plan to use my computers as a football. I've built four computers using them and they are great. NEVER buy one with a Power Supply get that separate and get a good one [or a grossly higher wattage cheapie] [There's a Thermaltake server case for $98 LOL]

Remember, this input is coming from someone that has never played a game on a computer in his life, and his experience with video copying et al is all via a friend that is superb at such things.

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Don't underestimate yourself Ray, as your knowldge is
Oct 4, 2004 11:23AM PDT

invaluable, once you get out of geek-speak, Wink .

I've chosen the motherboard and the winner is:
ASUS "P4P800 SE" i865PE Chipset Motherboard for Intel Socket 478 CPU -RETAIL
Model# P4P800SE
Item # N82E16813131484

Specifications:
Supported CPU: Intel Pentium

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Looks like a great package. I think that
Oct 4, 2004 12:31PM PDT

you made a good decision and will be happy with it for years. It has plenty of growth room.

I have no reason to have a memory preference at this time because the "best" is constantly varying as new devices come out. Samsung has been one of the best for years, but their chips are frequently are used on another mfr's memory stick so the mfr [assembler] of the sticks name is on the memory. Also memory "rating" [various testers opinions LOL] is usually based on their overclockability, so not always meaningful for a user such as you.

What CL is the memory? [just for academic interest]

Kinda nice that they will assemble it for you.

I like the ASUS BIOS [my two systems have ASUS mobos] Just don't remember what type it is, just looked in the manual and it doesn't say what "make" other than ASUStek. We all know that they buy from award or AMI or whoever and then modify them.

ATAPI includes basically optical drives and any other type than Hard Drives. BUT it is a moot point because your RAID is only SATA RAID which is part of the IOCH chip of the chipset. You don't have [or need] a separate IDE RAID chip, but if you had it it would simply be to get more IDE ports. As we both read in Max PC RAID doesn't really help gaming.


I think that the side fan is great. I run them so that they blow room ambient air into the computer. Seems to me that it will stir the air around the CPU's HSF. The cheapie case that I was using comes with them blowing out, so I reverse it, but add an additional rear exhaust. I just ordered a case with top and side fans to put the stuff I have on hand into [the Barton and Soyo mobo]. I'll run some thermal tests with the side fan as intake and as exhaust. I have some remote reading thermocouples / thermistors.


[I have a fancy server case, Thermaltake I was going to use [totally stupid buy] The darn thing with nothing in it is almost too heavy to lift. I'm going to save it to some day put a 64 bit CPU with two processors in one CPU chip when they come out. Probably a Birthday or Christmas gift for someone. I wouldn't know what to do with it.

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Nice to get the R.H. Stamp of Approval!
Oct 4, 2004 2:44PM PDT

And I'm grateful for your reading through my lengthy post.

The CL for the memory, if it's the same stick as the one in my daughter's system is 2.5 for 133, 3 @ 200. From what I've read, that's pretty much par for the course, except for the really high-end memory, but I'm not spending $150 a stick w/heat spreaders. fwiw, on the circuit chips is stamped "Samsung"- I elected Samsung over Kingston because I was reading about different types of Kingston chips, and their quality seems to be all over the place. I believe my guys would have recommended Kingston over the Samsung if they felt it was better. I think the Samsung was a good compromise 'tween really high-end, expensive chip, and a reliable known brand- to the best of my knowledge. Bottom line is, my guys know I know enough when I've gotten something crappy, and normally they'll make an exchange if necessary.

If HDDs drop in price, I'm bound to fill up the other 4 drives, lol.

The tower is a real beauty. Black aluminum. Only downside is my optical drives are white. Maybe I'll paint 'em, lol.

Quite frankly, I didn't even realize I had only SATA RAID; well, I made my choice, and not switch gears. I've only read about RAID arrays, and the more I read about 'em, the less it appeals to me, so no great loss in that dept, at least for now.

So, what to do with my old system? There's still enough in there for it to be pretty functional. I've always been interested in Linux, or maybe I'll donate it to my daughter's school or charity.

Thanks so much for your input and suggestions, and taking the time to look over my specs. Now, I can't wait to get this rig home. The last coupla weeks has been a real education about stuff I've read about, but only had a nebulous kind of understanding.

Probably a Birthday or Christmas gift for someone. I wouldn't know what to do with it. Hey, if you want my address, just ask! Thanks again, Ray. Really appreciate your input.

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Just remembered. Plextor offers a
Oct 4, 2004 11:26PM PDT

SATA burner, so you have other options for the SATA ports. I'm sure that more will come.

Get the ports filled up. LOL And again, good luck.

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What chipset does the Foxconn mobo use?
Oct 4, 2004 2:32AM PDT

I don't think that the current CPU's can fully utilize the extra memory bandwidth that Dual Channel gives. I haven't read anything of detail about the latest Intel chiset/CPU combinations. They would certainly be out of your price range at this time.

[When are you going to win a Multimillion dollar lawsuit and get enough of a fee to buy any computer that you want. LOL]

BTW my cataract surgery was easy and the results great. The lens they put in seems perfect. Unbelievable how much brighter I see things with that eye.

My right facial nerve has not responded at all so the right eye still has some problems but not real bad. Taping it closed at night is a PITA, but at my age things could be a lot worse.

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Re: What chipset does the Foxconn mobo use?
Oct 4, 2004 11:43AM PDT

As soon as the techis told me Dell uses Foxconns, that quickly eliminated them as a choice. I started telling me about the LAN ports..10/100/1000, or something like that, and if I used it, I'd have to use cat6 cabling and redo my network; I just tuned him out, and said to go for the ASUS.

[When are you going to win a Multimillion dollar lawsuit and get enough of a fee to buy any computer that you want. LOL] Not anytime soon, lol. I made a choice when my daughter was born: see my children grow up, or be an absent father. I chose the former. I see no point in working 150+ hrs. a week, having no life, and most of all probably regretting not being an integral part of my kids' life. I know plenty of millionare lawyers; miserable, divorced, kids hate them. I work FOR the Court system as a salaried employee. Enough to pay the bills, wife doesn't have to work (though I wish she did! MORE COMPUTERS!), and the kids aren't being raised by nannies. Sure, I wish I had more money, but the joy of seeing my kids running to the door when I get home makes up for all that. They'll only be kids once, and I don't want to miss that, and wouldn't trade that for the world.

Glad to hear your operation went well. As I said earlier, I need new glasses (bifocals!); pressure in my eyes pretty good.

Sorry to hear about your right eye. But you're correct, things can be worse. I suffered a severe back injury 7+ yrs ago, will have constant pain for the rest of my life, but at least I can walk and do most normal things. It's good I have a high pain threshold, as I'm immune to pain killers.

Speaking of kids, I gotta get them to bed. Thanks much for your input. Will check in later! If you put an email addy in your profile, I'll send you a pic of my new system when it's done!

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This post makes me know that I am glad
Oct 5, 2004 6:14AM PDT

to be a forum friend of yours. Sounds like a great family and life.

I'll use profile to send you my email address.

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I'm honored that you consider me a friend
Oct 5, 2004 10:13AM PDT

And thank you for your kind words. My kids are my life! I'm indeed fortunate; how my wife puts up with my obsessions is beyond me.

So as not to turn this into chat, I'll mention I kind of regret not having seperate RAID. I'll wait for dual-layer DVD burners to come down, then of course be asking you what the benefit of having a SATA burner would be! lol.

I'll be getting new glasses soon, so less typos.