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Ranchers in Texas and Illegals

by Glenda / June 17, 2006 12:58 PM PDT
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(NT) (NT) the shocking electricity should help
by Mark5019 / June 17, 2006 1:02 PM PDT
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(NT) (NT) Ya would think so, Huh??
by Glenda / June 17, 2006 1:04 PM PDT
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WOW! 220Volts can kill.
by John Robie / June 18, 2006 12:32 AM PDT

Have been shocked many times with electric fences for cattle/horses and it will not knock you down. 220 Volts of house type current on a fence would be murder in Texas. Did a little checking other than Yahoo's quote, and Rancher Michael Vickers has said in another article:

"I have got seven and half miles and 220 volts of electricity. ... I have it damped down to where it don't kill anybody, but it does make them go in their pants," he said, adding that illegals no longer go over the fence, instead they dig under it.

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well i think
by Mark5019 / June 18, 2006 1:03 AM PDT

id not step it down

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(NT) (NT) And that basically qualifies as premediated murder
by Roger NC / June 18, 2006 12:28 PM PDT
In reply to: well i think
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when your
by Mark5019 / June 18, 2006 12:45 PM PDT

being invaded by a hoard of unlawful entry i feel its not.


if they came threw boarder crossing then they wouldnt get hurt

why let them come in few get hurt more turn back

works for me

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A 220 volt charge fence can't determine
by Roger NC / June 18, 2006 1:01 PM PDT
In reply to: when your

that whoever it kills is an 'invader' or not.

Not that it matters legally.

Arranging to setup someone's death is planning their death. Planning their death is premedation.

Now I don't know that I agree about traps that may kill inside a private business or home being first degree murder, but that's in general traps with lethal intentions are considered by the law to be planned murder.

It doesn't matter who it is, an intruder, invader, lost ET.


Roger

click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

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well your entitled to your opinion
by Mark5019 / June 18, 2006 1:03 PM PDT

i feel were under attack and when your under attack lethal force is allowed

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Not just my opinion, legal issues, not just Texas either
by Roger NC / June 19, 2006 12:17 AM PDT
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so be it
by Mark5019 / June 19, 2006 1:08 AM PDT

ill cry over the unlawfull invaders few die and court case is tried by legal amiricans not a big loss
a few invaders

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Roger is being logical.....
by John Robie / June 19, 2006 1:08 PM PDT
In reply to: so be it
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i comepletly understand
by Mark5019 / June 19, 2006 1:36 PM PDT

but as there invadeing i think force is needed

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What alot of people don't realize...
by tomron / June 20, 2006 8:25 AM PDT

is in order to change the goverment,you change the culture.Its not splitting the atom,its quite simply to understand.

Tom

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(NT) (NT) Sounds like suicide if one tries to climb it.
by caktus / June 20, 2006 1:43 PM PDT
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220 Volts do not kill!
by Edward ODaniel / June 20, 2006 7:21 AM PDT

I run 10,000 volts through my electric fencing to keep the critters in and although it is indeed a "shocking experience" to grab hold of it that is all it does or can do.

It is the amperage that kills (and my fencing only provides 1/16 amp). Normal household 220 service is 30 to 60 amp (that is for each circuit as the service box may well be rated at 265 or 345 amps for all circuits combined and most generally that is insufficient to kill UNLESS other provisions such as an extremely good ground (such as standing in water and unable to release the hot wire) and under those conditions 110 volt service at 30, 60 or 100 amps will do the job too.

Fencers PULSE and that pulsing is what allows one to "break free" from the current (and thus why an excellent ground such as standing in water tends to inhibit breaking free).

For fencing large acreages 220 volt electric fencers are the norm rather than some esoteric exception John.

Never had someone toss you the charged 12 volt capacitor (or tossed one to them) when you were helping them change their points in the good old days? Amps John, not volts!

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Yes, I know about electric fences,
by John Robie / June 20, 2006 8:49 AM PDT
In reply to: 220 Volts do not kill!

and amps as my Dad raised cattle and used electric fences. The only joke he ever played on me for my whole life was when he asked me to hold a bare electric fence wire when I was about 6 years old. He had already tested it, and just wanted to see my reaction.

We used battery powered, then 110V powered commercial electric fences. Yes, even 10,000 Volts with low amperage won't kill. Regular 220V house current is what I was referring to that you don't take chances, as it will kill and that is why it is not used unless stepped down with commercial devices.

Mark is talking about using 220V to kill, not step down or regular cattle electric 220V fences.

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mark is talking about defending our country
by Mark5019 / June 20, 2006 8:53 AM PDT

remember, why did you fight in nam to protect a country from invasion.
well its here now

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If familiar with electric fences...
by Edward ODaniel / June 21, 2006 4:15 AM PDT

you should have noted IMMEDIATELY that household or even three phase commercial 220 run directly to an electric fence would not work because an unpulsed current falls off rapidly (and even faster if run through brushy or grassy areas where vegetation will short the line to ground because that unpulsed current couldn't be low impedance which is what weed whacker fencers offer)--that is why electric fencers were invented and a side benefit of pulsing is that the miscreant is shocked rather than grabbed.

I didn't see where Mark spoke of a lethal fence. His remarks are easily understood to mean a shock they won't willingly go back for seconds and will warn others to steer clear of. Can you point me to the post where Mark referenced a desire for a LETHAL fence?

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Perhaps here?
by Roger NC / June 21, 2006 4:21 AM PDT
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Nope. Nothing there about lethal fence
by Edward ODaniel / June 22, 2006 3:34 AM PDT
In reply to: Perhaps here?

and we both know that household 220 would not, because of its unpulsed nature, provide sufficient current to power the fence.

I too wouldn't "step it down". I would use a 220 volt fencer that stepped the voltage UP which is actually what that rancher did (amps were stepped down and the current was pulsed).

Still haven't seen where Mark (or anyone else here) specifically advocated a lethal fence.

Personally I would hope to see the use of paint ball guns with INDELLIBLE, FLOURESCENT, GLOW IN THE DARK, INKS that cannot be washed off--only worn off. Would make it relatively an easy matter for law enforcement to pick them up.

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RE:........
by John Robie / June 22, 2006 5:49 AM PDT

"Still haven't seen where Mark (or anyone else here) specifically advocated a lethal fence."

IMO you are just attempting to whitewash. Mark has said several times before about mines for the Mexican border:

http://reviews.cnet.com/5208-6130-0.html?forumID=50&threadID=181734&messageID=1987514&tag=

http://reviews.cnet.com/5208-6130-0.html?forumID=50&threadID=177005&messageID=1943586&tag=

http://reviews.cnet.com/5208-6130-0.html?forumID=50&threadID=176039&messageID=1938350&tag=

There are mines that disable (blow off legs/feet) with with possible not being a fatality.

So, it seems to me you are attempting to make Mark a hypocrite, by saying he only wanted to 'shock' the "invaders" by not reducing the 220Volts.

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It seems John that you are...
by Edward ODaniel / June 22, 2006 7:54 AM PDT
In reply to: RE:........

trying to drag completely different threads into this one.

As I noted elsewhere you have to read what is there and not what isn't.

I have, in past threads, advocated electrifing door knobs so a sneak thief would still "be there in the morning" (which plainly means just what it says) but it has NOTHING to do with the discussion of electric fences nor 220 volts within this thread.

Contrary to your assertion about "id not step it down " this post indicating a desire for a lethal fence Mark rather clearly stated in this post
"if they came threw boarder crossing then they wouldnt get hurt

why let them come in few get hurt more turn back

works for me "

Hurt doesn't indicate death, it indicates a shocking experience best avoided. That was AFTER your post claiming 220 volts kills.

Now I did just now find a post where Mark mentioned lethality. That was here - http://reviews.cnet.com/5208-6130-0.html?forumID=50&threadID=184580&messageID=2012041 but do note that it was in response to Roger's post which ASSUMED electrocution which had not been mentioned.

Alles clar?

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We have different opinion on this
by John Robie / June 22, 2006 8:06 AM PDT

matter Ed.
Alles clar.

I do, however, agree on many of your posts outside this thread.

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Hmmm.......
by John Robie / June 22, 2006 1:43 AM PDT

I'm just now reading this after being off the net since yesterday afternoon, so the late reply.

Ed, your are just being augmentive.

An electric fence needs power, like I said, we used battery power and 110VAC for power. Yes the power is converted....naturally for an electric fence...huh. Battery and 110VAC as well as 220VAC is still available for power on electric fences. If you desire to hold a fence wire that I rig up with 220VAC, please pick a day where there is a little dew on the ground for a little faster way to die, after signing a release.

Mark? Well, I believe Roger already gave you the link. He has been quite clear on how he would deal with the undocumented ''invasion'' immigrants including a mine field (that would only injure? Come on Ed). His reply above did not refute my post. Would you like to answer and educate Mark on his question:

''remember, why did you fight in nam to protect a country from invasion''

I choose not to answer and get into it with a long post about Communism dragging out this particular post.

JR
BTW how long did you serve in the Army?

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John, if you want me to hold the wire...
by Edward ODaniel / June 22, 2006 4:11 AM PDT
In reply to: Hmmm.......

and you want to hook direct to household 220 or even commercial triple phase I am ready willing and able and will grab the wire at 3/4 miles from the power source. Go ahead and talk to someone at your local power company. (PS if you use copper wire I get to police it up for its salvage value afterwards.)

BECAUSE of its unpulsed nature John the voltage AND amperage will have dropped to a bare tingle (resistance increases as the conductor length increases)-- that is why power utilities have facilities to boost the power and kick it along their lines.

As for landmines, the thread that post was in started with a comment about ladders into an area with dangerous wildlife and if you look had a smile attached to the (NT) subject. You too responded to the post as an IDEA rather than a determined proposal of intent.

Army time - lets see now. Drafted in '67, later took a couple years off then retired in '95 - right close to 24 years before the medical board said I was no longer deployable world wide.

Now John, I am not being argumentative, I am pointing out that statements stand on their own and seeing what has not been stated is the fault of the observer rather than that of the person making the statement.

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I'd pay to see that
by JP Bill / June 22, 2006 4:25 AM PDT
if you want me to hold the wire...and you want to hook direct to household 220 or even commercial triple phase I am ready willing and able and will grab the wire at 3/4 miles from the power source.
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Your money is welcome...
by Edward ODaniel / June 22, 2006 4:30 AM PDT
In reply to: I'd pay to see that

but you would be well advised to check with your power compay or a qualified electrician before throwing your money away.

Ask them about voltage drop and resistance and try to remember this is regarding an electric fence subject to additional impedence factors and complicated by potential grounding issues.

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(NT) (NT) and dont except canadian make it usa bucks
by Mark5019 / June 22, 2006 4:36 AM PDT
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Response
by JP Bill / June 22, 2006 5:02 AM PDT

and you want to hook direct to household 220 or even commercial triple phase I am ready willing and able and will grab the wire at 3/4 miles from the power source.

Direct to 220 or 600 volts is quite a statement, many have died or had severe burns.

If you are saying you'll hold one wire and make sure you are isolated from ground when you say complicated by potential grounding issues.

Is this called a "sidestep' or "backtrack"

I understand voltage drop and resistance

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Neither a 'sidestep' nor a 'backstep', but...
by Edward ODaniel / June 22, 2006 8:31 AM PDT
In reply to: Response

your question does indicate a disturbing lack of knowledge of simple basic electrical circuits and grounding considerations for them.

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