38 total posts
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Billions in free advertising...
Apple would not be where they are right now without the pervasive support they receive from the media. Raffe is one example, Tom is another.
I don't think Tom's that bad
From memory, although Tom has a MBP, he primarily uses it as a Windows machine. Both types (WIndows/Mac) can work absolutely fine, as long as they are well maintained by their users. The opposite also is true, they can both suck if abused and mistreated.
Tom has a:
and constantly talks about Apple products.
I think constantly is a little excessive, the only time I think Tom mentions these is when it's *relevant* to the discussion, and from memory has his criticisms about all of them.
Re Re Tom
Tom runs Windows XP as the primary OS on his MacBook Pro. Try suggesting that to an Apple fanboy...
(NT) Yup, I agree!
I'm a fan of Apple's strategy (integration at all costs) and marketing ("Maybe you're cool enough to buy a Mac"). Also its industrial design. I'm a *user* (and critic) of Windows PCs -- a homebuilt desktop PC at home, a Thinkpad at work.
I can see how I may come across as a fanboy, but it's from the grass-is-greener perspective. My Windows PCs are always giving me trouble. I stick with them, though, because I know how to maintain them and I can fix them myself.
Apparently if anybody mentions anything positive about Apple
they are automatically a fanboy, regardless of whether its true or not (even if they use Windows PC's and Media Center's like you)
And what I heard you say was true... Apple sells a tightly controlled, vertically-integrated product that fits well into Apple branded retail store. Stating a simple fact is not "fanboyism".
Rafe, I respect ya, but...
You do quite consistently drop in the "just get a Mac" comments when they are not necessary. No, I can't point to chapter and verse, but I've heard it more than twice in situations where they were gratuitous.
How hard is it to appreciate a closed-architecture product? What's never said (or rarely said) is that Windows needs to work on an INFINITE number of motherboards/cpus/peripherals, software, etc., etc., etc. Along those lines, Windows gets blamed for poor third-party driver implementations, hardware issues and software that doesn't play well.
Why is it you can't acknowledge that? Why would you blame Windows for those problems? That's what's unfair about this discussion. Apple controls virtually everything save for third-party software. Let me be frank: If you can't get THAT right, what CAN you do right?
So, to give Apple kudos for essentially preventing the diversity that abounds in the Windows world? That seems a little odd, in my view.
You like it because "it works". That's all well and fine, but do you think for one moment that if OS X were licensed out to be used on other hardware that there wouldn't be issues such as what plague Windows users? If you were answer honestly, I'd say you'd have to acknowledge there would be such issues.
Your model of "what works" would also put tons of third-party peripheral makers out of business, as they wouldn't be allowed into the closed Mac universe.
That said, I do enjoy The Real Deal (see my comments in that forum). I just wish you'd stop with the "get a Mac" mantra. Microsoft ain't perfect; that's for sure. But Apple ain't, either. It's high time this genuflecting at the altar of Steve Jobs was placed in abeyance. You're free to harbor your own preferences. Please don't tell me what I should do.
Extending the definition of Fanboyism.
According to Urban Dictionary def2.
1. A person who is completely loyal to a game or company regardless of if they suck or not.
2. A pathetic insult often used by fanboys themselves to try and put down people who don't like whatever it is they like.
Now from the above definition, all the time I've heard Rafe say "get a Mac" he was doing it in jest or just being the devil's advocate to Tom, Molly or some other person. If Rafe owns a Mac that's cool, or if he owns a PC that's cool too, but please try not to extend the fanboy brush just because he was describing a system and comparing it.
We'll agree to disagree
First, to be clear, my comments above are not specifically about this latest show, although he did seem to be chomping at the bit to shoot down any logic behind a "Microsoft Store". But, he made valid points, nonetheless. I was referring to the entire body of work I've heard Rafe participate in.
As far as him saying "get a Mac" in jest, I don't quite see it that way. My perception is that it's one of those "why bother with the hassles of this thing you're dealing with; get a Mac!" comments when made, because it's usually in response to someone's issues with getting some configuration, process, or software to work the way they want or similar.
But anyway, that's just my take. Obviously, everyone sees things differently, and I respect those opinions.
Agreed. But each opinion is important.
"You like it because "it works". That's all well and fine, but do you think for one moment that if OS X were licensed out to be used on other hardware that there wouldn't be issues such as what plague Windows users? If you were answer honestly, I'd say you'd have to acknowledge there would be such issues. "
Driver bugs occur whether you control everything or not, and do affect mac users. Why.... just this recent story about video driver bugs in Leopard for latest macbooks...
I do not think much would change if Apple released OS X for generic PC's, they have a wide range of hardware to support already. The hardware in macs comes from various vendors, ATI, Nvidia, Intel, motorola, IBM... Controlling everything is not a magical cure for software bugs, they just happen.
vvtf. cought me off guard, ive never even considered that.
i was quite surprised to hear that. its one thing if you called V a fangirl, but this seems so odd. i am certainly no apple fanboy, so Im somewhat impartial. i really dont get it lol. well whatever. maybe ppl are a little hypersensitive/defensive of PC's
You talking to me?
Dr. K, are you referring to my comments about Rafe? If so, I don't know what's "hypersensitive" about it. If something's real, it's real, and obvious, so sensitivity really doesn't come into play. If I say the sky is blue and can demonstrate that it is, I don't think that makes me hypersensitive to people's opinions about sky colors, lol.
That said, where biases are concerned, it's pretty easy to spot them when you're hearing them come up time and time again. But, if you agree with said bias, it probably doesn't register as much.
As I've said to Tom, I just want equal-opportunity critiques. And I mean "equal" by the seriousness of the critique, not the amount of mentions. It's one thing to say "Vista sucks!" and another to say "Macbook Pros should come in black!".
I don't like any company (or person) put on a pedestal. Apple, by and large, gets favorable press. Someone at MS could pass gas on the bus and it would be "the shot heard round the world" in tech blogs and podcasts. I don't buy into it. There's plenty of good things about both, and plenty to criticize. Inordinate criticism of one company while another gets --for the most part-- a pass, is unacceptable. I don't think that's asking too much.
Now, on to more important things (off topic): Have you been to tastyspleen.net yet with your Quake 2 program ready to frag? If so, what's your nic so I can look for ya?
oops! not u specifically, i meant 2 post under rafes comment
sry bout that. i just hate fanboys and fanboy-haters. its so annoying. almost as bad as calling bands "sell-outs" guh!
sry for the confusion tho!
also, i lost my quake II disc :( :(
Collection is in a firesafe. No one gets to those. I even have my DOOM (one) diskettes.
Good news? Such are now cheap cheap.
It's very cheap...
Search Amazon.com (all departments search) for Quake 2. You'll see more than a few "merchants" are selling used Quake 2 discs guaranteed to work for a grand total of about $5.00 (that price includes shipping). Five bucks.
He was quite neutral, he was merely commenting on how apple's business model works.
I Thought the Same Thing
I took his comments to mean the business model. He's not someone I would place in the Apple fnnboy camp.
He is also willing to listen to opposing points of view. Witness the "almost rant" over noiseless cars until he realized that the blind would benefit from noiser hybrid autos.
Maybe the comment was based on a history of such comments (which, even though I have heard nearly every episode he has been on, I don't recall), but this particular episode was pretty analytical and fair. What he said was simply true, regardless of whether it happened to be positive toward Apple.
He wasn't praising Apple.
He was just comparing the Apple retail model with a Micro$oft Retail model and what might need to happen or what can be made differently.
Rafe is a fanboy because he defends Apple against Tom's criticisms. Tom is also a fanboy. Made me LOI.
Also, how come I never get criticised for constantly talking about my Xbox 360, Windows, and my Media Center PC?
Aw c'mon, you were LOL, not LOI!
When two "fanboy's" collide . . . :0)
Um, well, er...
If Apple made an Xbox-type machine, or a Media Center PC, I'd be with ya on that. But, given that they don't, you're using what's out there. So, it's only natural that you would talk about those products and not mention the non-existent Apple variant, loi. Yeah, there's the Mac Mini, but that's not a dedicated media center product.
As far as you constantly talking about Windows, if you mean trashing Vista, I know I have taken you to task for that, myself. Not because Vista is faultless, mind you, but because in my view the technorati has picked up the theme of "Vista Sucks!" and has continued to look for ways to reinforce that. It's tiring. Again, far be it for me to sing MS's praises, but what's fair is fair, and I think it's pretty indisputable that many in the tech columnist/podcaster world have an anti-MS bias.
And THAT'S WHY Molly is so important to the podcast. Not that she loves Vista (far from it), but she doesn't buy into the Apple hype, either. See what I mean? Fairness, man. That's all I want. Equal-Opportunity Bashing. As for you, personally, I think when Apple's motives are questioned, you are more likely to give them the benefit of the doubt vs. when MS says or does something. Just my perception, but I'm sticking to it.
Love the show!
Although I'm fine with XP. I'm running it on my MacBook Pro right now. There I go again... MacBook Pro.
I imagine, if Molly was always defending Apple, then you would hear me taking the other side. Just to keep things balanced.
Veronica used to play the Apple defender role. I'd often get in trouble with her for criticizing Apple.
You have to admit, though..
Rafe is probably eating up all this chatter on the BOL forum! Remember, there's no such thing as bad press! Ok, maybe that's a stretch, but you know what I mean.
And just so I'm clearly identified here: I am NOT MS's supporter-in-chief. There was a time when I hated them for what I considered to be "predatory capitalism", whereby they would take the ideas and work of smaller third-party developers and incorporate them into their OS as freebies. That, in essence, put these smaller companies out to pasture. But they got their comeuppance in an expensive legal way.
You are just Satan's Lawyer . . . :0)
I really do see you as the "but, on the other hand" guy. Molly usually just reacts from the gut and usually overstates her case (which makes for good entertainment), and your job is usually to either argue the other side (even if you agree with her sentiment in general) or at least point out where she has taken a good point too far.
Long-timers get the full picture, though, seeing you argue both sides of the fence enough to parse out where you really come down.
Can't say I noticed.
Everone admits what apple does well. Since it's worked for apple lately apple is riding high. Everone admits what apples screwing up, though they still admit that the product works well.. (iphone closed platform for example).
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