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General discussion

Question about Microsoft windows

Aug 26, 2014 3:34PM PDT

I am curious about Microsoft Windows. So I have a few questions.

Microsoft Windows needs an antivirus program because it is in danger of getting viruses.

Microsoft Windows also needs anti malware protection, antispyware protection..

Windows needs firewalls to protect from hackers.

Windows needs registry cleaners to clean the registry which gets messed up from installing and uninstalling software.

Windows has a defragmenter for defraging the hard drive which does get pretty bad over time.

Windows also needs a good cleaning program for the hard drive.

Microsoft requires the latest computers to run their latest operating system. The old computers just wont work with the newer Microsoft operating systems. Microsoft requires to much memory and system resources.

Microsoft requires you to constantly install drivers for various hardware.

My question is,

Why would anyone use such a crappy operating system if you need all this garbage just to keep it running?

A better question, why would people actually pay for it?

There are way superior operating systems available for FREE that are open source.

Linux does not need anti virus software because Linux does not get viruses.
Linux does not need a registry cleaner because nothing gets written to the registry when installing software. So there is nothing to clean.
Linux does not need a defragmenter because the Linux hard drive does not become fragmented.
Linux also does not need anti malware, anti spyware or firewalls or hard drive cleaners. Linux does not get that junk into its system and the Linux system is designed so secure that a firewall is not even necessary.

In Linux you dont have to worry about drivers. You plug your hardware in and it works. That's it. Everything works. Webcams, printers, scanners everything. You never need to install drivers because everything you need is already there.

Linux is so system friendly even a 20 year old computer can be brought back to life after installing Linux.

Other than that Linux looks just about the same as Microsoft windows. Its really hard to see the difference. Except you don't have all that other garbage installed that is needed to keep microsoft running.
Unlike Microsoft that cost hundreds of dollars, Linux is free and available all over the internet.

So my question is why are people still dumping money into an inferior operating system when Linux is much better, easier to use, more stable, more secure, and FREE? Is it because they have never tried anything else?

Discussion is locked

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Does that include virtual servers?
Aug 30, 2014 7:44AM PDT

I gather these are new systems ordered with Linux, not re-purposed servers or virtual machines. Throw those into the mix and Unix and Windows will likely look a lot worse off.

Where I work we have installed hundreds of Linux servers on VMWare. That would likely not be noted in these statistics. In many cases the business unit requesting the server has their choice of Windows or Linux and often they opt for Linux.

That does not bode well for Microsoft. Both Android and IOS are extremely popular while Windows portable devices are not doing so well. Tablets powered by Android and IOS are eating into the desktop PC market. Linux seems to be slowly taking over the server farm. Windows users are becoming impatient with all of the updates, patches, and emergency fixes that make them wait to sign in. Many users are not happy with Windows 8 and they are looking elsewhere.

One advantage Microsoft servers have over other systems is the graphical interface, which many shops do not run on their Linux servers. Instead of typing strings of commands on a black screen you can click icons and drag and drop things. It is much simpler copying files or reading log files with Windows than with Linux.

So, what is Microsoft doing to encourage people to stick with their server software? They are replacing the GUI with a combination of Metro style tiles and a command line interface. You will have all of the complexity of Linux and none of the advantages of Windows, but without the speed and reliability of Linux.

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The servers are doing OK.
Aug 30, 2014 8:05AM PDT

Mostly because of the low TCO. That is, you can get almost anyone from entry level to advanced to point and click manage those.

Posting in a rant however means we can go far.
Bob

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one figure was
Aug 30, 2014 11:04PM PDT

just for the top 500 servers. As for what makes people unhappy with the current windows offerings other than maybe windows 7, seems to be manifold. The main objection seems to be they are not an extension or expansion of XP. I hated all the popups on Vista, but learned to turn most of them off, then could concentrate more on what seemed clutzy approach to things, but especially didn't care that much for the new file manager approach. Windows 7 isn't so bad, but in making the networking to be easier for most home users, they actually made it more difficult for those who already had home setup that didn't fit the straight jacket approach they'd designed for home users. I had to use the "business" setup once I figured out that was the only way I'd get my home setup to let it into the system. AFTER doing it that way I was able to assign it back as a home system, but with the manual settings I'd forced on it. Windows 8 seems an extension of what I didn't like about Vista and W7 with some added yuck for the Metro. My favorite windows system however in looks was Windows 2000, more than XP, so maybe that's why I liked the more austere look in current Linux desktops and versatility for fixing it the way I like it. For instance, here's an example of my chosen login screen.

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(NT) Where's Jar Jar Binks?
Aug 31, 2014 3:05AM PDT
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he doesn't seem well liked
Aug 31, 2014 10:03AM PDT
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Jar Jar and Wil Wheaton
Sep 6, 2014 10:20PM PDT

They had a re-run of an Big Bang episode this week, where they were in line at the theatre waiting to see Raiders of the Lost Ark and Wil Wheaton and friends came by and gave Sheldon some grief. Wil played the part of Jar Jar, imitating him as he and friends got a pass from the line for quick entry, leaving Sheldon and gang sitting outside. I thought of this thread when I saw that.

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that desktop
Aug 31, 2014 3:29AM PDT

looks like some old Sega Genesis game like Sonic the Hedgehog Grin

Digger

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what key combination do I need
Aug 31, 2014 4:08AM PDT

to bring up and use the shooter? Devil

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(NT) It's just for looks, lol.
Aug 31, 2014 10:02AM PDT
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I'm just curious
Aug 31, 2014 10:34AM PDT

I'm just curious, and I mean that literally, no hidden agendas or gotchas.

I can't remember there being that many significant changes in Windows Explorer since Windows 95 introduced it. Sure the UI has been refined a little here and there, like when Microsoft started developing an allergy to menus with Windows XP, but if I think back to XP's Win Explorer and compare it to the Windows 7 Win Explorer, I'm hard pressed to come up with any substantial differences, unless you're bundling a lot of other things that have nothing to do with the file manager, in with Windows Explorer.

I do remember the popups you were talking about. Can't think of the name off the top of my head since they were renamed SmartScreen in Win 8, but it was a well-intentioned idea that wasn't implemented so well. The general idea, as described by some Windows developer, was to pop up this message every time the user did something potentially risky so they'd stop and think about whether or not they really want to do whatever. Of course it just ended up training people to click "yes" every time, same as people do with software firewalls that bombard them with a million and one prompts.

I will also grant that I was a little confused as to the need/purpose of Homegroups in Windows 7. Always struck me as a solution in search of a problem. The only potential benefit I see is that it would prevent people in, say a college dorm, from sharing a bunch of files on the campus network without really even knowing it. With the homegroup, you have to give someone a big long obnoxious case sensitive password, so it requires a deliberate act. Then again, I had absolutely no problems getting the old style networking to work with Vista-8. Worked exactly the same as it always has since at least Windows 2000. I could just ignore the homegroup stuff as much or little as I wanted.

But I'm still unsure as to what has fundamentally changed about the way Windows Explorer works between Windows 95 and Windows 8 because I'm not seeing it frankly. Then again I rarely look at anything above the file listings and just use keyboard shortcuts for a lot of things, so maybe that has something to do with it. Select files with the mouse, unless I want all files, shift-delete, enter, done. If I want to copy/move the files I'd use the copy and paste shortcuts, which frankly make no sense from a design POV, but are darn handy just the same. Cut/Copy the files I want, navigate to the destination directory, paste, done. Maybe you could expand upon that point a little.

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the location line changed as I recall
Aug 31, 2014 1:47PM PDT

I was used to it being more like a URL, but the format of it changed. I can't recall the exact nature of it now, but it was not to my personal liking. In fact in Linux I believe it's similar to that, but there is the choice between the URL type of location line or the little line of boxes. That alone was not the deal breaker for me, but part of a cumulative dislike that developed for the system. I thought Vista Aero looked great, liked the look of a lot on Vista, but after using a couple months and still not feeling an acceptance for it, I went back to XP and then started moving over to Linux a year before XP was due to end support. I'd tried Linux before and it wasn't up to what I wanted, not even Knoppix which I looked on more as a rescue and emergency disc than anything long term. My turn off them was all the odd and at times non descriptive names of programs in Linux, especially the battle between G and K names which made program names a bit too redundant and too similar to my liking.

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Do you download Linux distros?
Aug 27, 2014 6:44AM PDT

If so, did you ever notice the requests to donate? Do you send money? If not, why not?

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re: Do you download Linux distros?
Aug 27, 2014 8:56AM PDT

Yes, I install a new distro every couple of days just to see what they are all about.
So far my favorites have been Linux Mint with cinnamon desktop, Lubuntu, Ubuntu.
My least favorites have been zubuntu, puppy linux, zorin.

Yes, I have noticed the requests to donate.
However my contributions to Linux are between me and Linux and none of your business.

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(NT) My...we are snippy, aren't we. Enjoy yourself
Aug 27, 2014 9:32AM PDT
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If you want to discuss Linux
Aug 27, 2014 9:37AM PDT

you should make a post in the Linux forum and stop the nonsense here.

No reason to get crappy with other members as these guys have been doing this stuff for years and you obviously don't know what your talking about .

They help out Linux newbies all the time and are happy to help those that keep a civil tongue.

Digger

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re:If you want to discuss Linux
Aug 27, 2014 10:41AM PDT

I have no need for help with a Linux issue. If I did I would ask a question in the Linux forum.
Instead I choose to start a conversation in the Microsoft forum.
That is why we have to choose between General discussion, Question Tip, Alert, Praise, Rant when we create a post, is it not?

I am discussing Microsoft as much or more than Linux.
I am getting crappy with no one.

It may be your opinion that I dont know what I am talking about, however it's you that is spending money on inferior software.

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You sure haven't proven anything !
Aug 27, 2014 10:48AM PDT
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Sorry but it appears you are doing that old OS war game.
Aug 27, 2014 10:49AM PDT

Good luck in your discussion.
Bob

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I'm Done
Aug 27, 2014 10:51AM PDT

said what I wanted.

Digger

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When I see posts like this
Aug 27, 2014 12:13PM PDT

When I see posts like this, two things come to my mind.

First is the quote from Shakespeare... Was it from McBeth? Anyway, the line: "Methinks the lady doth protest too much" always pops into my head.

Then I always think about those people you see driving around in a pickup truck or jeep... But that wasn't manly enough for them, so they've jacked the thing up like 2-3ft (or around 0.5-1m for our European friends -- it's close enough, sue me) and put oversized tires on it, painted it "speeding ticket red", among other embellishments. It doesn't take much more than a layman's understanding of psychology to understand that they're clearly trying to distract from something.

Then I sometimes get a third thing to enter into my mind, which is the saying about how it's better to say nothing and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and prove it.

Maybe in part because I was one once, but Linux evangelists/zealots annoy the crap out of me. The insecurity that drives these people... I have to fight the urge to try and help them, because you can't help an addict until they hit rock bottom. It's not enough that Linux works for them and they like it, they have to base their sense of self-worth on the opinions of others. So the more people who think like them the more valid their opinion must be. Give yourself a gold star if you thought "bandwagon fallacy". It's one thing if someone walks into a Church/Synagog/Mosque and asks questions about that particular faith. It's a whole other thing if someone from that faith is running around actively trying to convert people. It's a distinction Linux evangelists are just as incapable of understanding as religious evangelists. We have a perfect case study right here. I don't give two craps what you believe, as long as you keep it to yourself unless I ask you about it. If you like Linux, good for you, but don't expect anyone else to care. Let it be enough that you like it and it works for you. Accept that what others like, and what works for them, may not be the same as you.

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"speeding ticket red"
Aug 27, 2014 1:30PM PDT

ROFL!!!

I always buy green, so I can pull into the woods and nobody see me. Decades ago I had a '66 chevy step bed repainted entirely "hunter green" for that purpose. Even my van today is dark green.

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Hmm,
Aug 28, 2014 2:14AM PDT

Do you have a bomb shelter full of C-Rats and wear camo's too James lol

Digger

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No, but...
Aug 28, 2014 3:42PM PDT

I used to drive from Tampa to Panama City to visit relatives and then bacak and Perry was a good midpoint with a lot of little trails along old US98 to pull off the highway into the woods for a leak and a nap undisturbed. A couple times my first choice for nappy time had stinking remains of a wild hog someone killed. I always had my pistol right beside me, just in case.

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take heart
Aug 27, 2014 1:18PM PDT
http://www.forbes.com/sites/rajsabhlok/2013/09/20/microsoft-kill-shots-how-ibmlinux-deals-the-latest-blow-to-redmond-empire/

I've enjoyed MS windows over the years, but they started moving away from what I wanted and surprisingly Linux began moving toward what I wanted, so by Vista I was ready to move to Linux desktop. I currently use the LTS Mint Linux 17 version, but used Kubuntu in the past.

Trying distros is a bit different than getting used to knowing and using one more deeply, but when you find one you want to use most, that's the time to make donation in appreciation. I like to set a price of $50 and therefore donate monthly in $10 till I reach that amount. After a couple years, do it again if still using that distro. No product in this world is free, or it quickly disappears. Feed what you want to grow.
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Microsoft is no longer king
Aug 29, 2014 2:27PM PDT

Where I work we have replaced most of our Sun Solaris servers with Red Hat Linux servers. Many of those are virtual machines but we have a number of physical machines, too. The Solaris servers host our Oracle databases, with Red Hat servers hosting the middle tier applications that run those databases.

A number of our applications could run on Windows or Red Hat and we are seeing an increasing number of them being put on Red Hat servers. Windows is by no means dead but it is not the only option any more.

A number of our users have bought Macs for their home computers. For many the tipping point was Windows 8. Many others got tired of the frequent update and patching cycles of Windows. While I admire the number of Linux "distros" and the features they offer, not to mention the price (free), I do not see them taking over the market. The Mac is poised to grab a much larger market share as Windows 8 languishes.

Apple has been lowering the prices on some of their lower end systems, making them more affordable. When I see that I can buy two HP laptops for the price of one Mac laptop and have money left over it is a no-brainer which I will buy. When I see a Mac laptop for $800 or $900, compared to my $600 HP, that presents quite a temptation to make the switch.

Microsoft should be very scared. If Windows 9 is not any better than Windows 8, my operating system version 10 will be Mac OS-X, not Windows. I suspect I am not alone in my thinking.

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Microsoft is all about money
Aug 30, 2014 7:24AM PDT

Microsoft's products usually work well but there is a price to pay. Setting up a complicated Exchange system can require the services of Microsoft's consulting staff. At our office they lived there for several months before rolling out Exchange 2007. It was not that long before another team set up Exchange 2010.

Nothing is simple with Microsoft. I once had their Home Server, which was a terrific piece of software based on Windows server that served as a central file repository and a mindless backup system. Everything was done from a client piece on a desktop; you could run the server totally headless and just turn it on or off.

When I replaced my desktop PC I decided to restore the data from the Home Server. Since the new system had the same name as the old one it should be easy. "Should" is the operative word ere because Microsoft would not let me connect with my data. Apparently I should have known to go into the computer's inner workings to learn the SSID name of my computer, which would begin and end with { } and have countless letters and numbers in between. Only if I set up the client and renamed my computer with that name could the restore be run.

Tell me please, Mr. Gates, how many people would know to do that? I thought backup software was about recovering data quickly so you could be up and running after a failure. I can do that with a number of commercial products. I am not so sure that the Windows Backup included with Windows 7 and 8 would do the trick without my playing a lot of games.

Of course, I could call Microsoft and, for a price, have the problem resolved.

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Microsoft's MSN Messenger to Shut Down After 15 Years
Aug 30, 2014 7:39AM PDT

Good news everybody....

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MSN Messenger has been effectively gone anyway
Aug 30, 2014 10:24AM PDT

Some years ago Microsoft urged me to switch to Skype. I did not do so.

One day my MSN account would not work. I was forced to switch to Skype and given a new ID> I was not able to import my buddy list so I lost all of those connections. Skype was full of ads and it did not work as I liked it. I gave up on MSN.

Is it any wonder they are pulling the plug? They killed their user base, forcing them either to Skype, now a Microsoft product, or something else. Many people opted for something else.

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Linux is not always free
Aug 30, 2014 7:50AM PDT

The Linux code is free. Support for it is not.

Red Hat is doing very well for itself providing a solid distro that is well supported. It does not have the latest bells and whistles but it does have a long life cycle and excellent reliability. A Red Hat version upgrade is a major undertaking for a large server farm.

You can download a free copy of CentOS, which is essentially Red Hat Linux without support.

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Linux is not immune either. "The Slapper"
Aug 27, 2014 6:00AM PDT