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PTSD

by JP Bill / June 10, 2014 5:15 AM PDT
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Your cases
by TONI H / June 10, 2014 6:56 AM PDT
In reply to: PTSD

are complete opposites of each other........the Marine in Mexico had gone to San Diego to get treatment. The one in Germany, getting better medical care right now than the 57,000 who can't even get an appointment for a first visit to get treatment, didn't have PTSD prior to his desertion. If he has it now, that's HIS fault.

Oh, and BTW, IF they determine, and I mean our wonderful idiot administration, that he has some type of 'Stockholm syndrome' and is unfit to stand trial, remember that that defense didn't stop Patty Hearst from standing trial, being found guilty of collusion, and serving time.

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I gather you missed the announcement today that Servicemen
by Rob_Boyter / June 10, 2014 8:57 AM PDT
In reply to: Your cases

can now get treatment through their family doctors. Of course that's a wrinkle introduced just today in order to deal with those 57,000 or more (as I understand it) by the Supreme Dictator Barack Obama. I must say, he's an awfully enlightened Dictator if he's adopted that solution to the backlog.

Rob

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I gather you missed
by TONI H / June 10, 2014 11:55 AM PDT

that there was a BILL in the House that was voted on 410-0 to give those rights to our military....It now has to go to the Senate for a vote BEFORE BO can become enlightened. In the meantime, our military continues to wait for that first appointment while a deserter has had 'emergency' treatment for a week (and according to doctors treating him there, he's in good health physically).

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(NT) So you condemn him before you hear the whole story.
by Diana Forum moderator / June 11, 2014 12:24 AM PDT
In reply to: I gather you missed
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I'm listening
by TONI H / June 11, 2014 1:55 AM PDT

to the men who served with him.....they would know better than anybody else, even while this administration's 'leaders' are calling them liars publicly.

But....aren't you accusing me of something that a good many here in SE did with the Trayvon Martin case?

There is no reason for this soldier to still be in Germany when doctors there said that he's in good physical health....except that this administration clearly doesn't want anybody talking to him, including his own family, as closely as the WH was in contact with his parents, you would have thought that they would have been flown over there immediately like has happened with other soldiers. Even one of the Congressional members in a hearing today with Hagel on the hotseat asked Hagel flat out why hasn't he been brought back to the States already since he's not physically unable to do so. The normal procedure in Germany is to get a soldier stable and bring them back right away for continued treatment. He's been protected/hidden heavily by this administration because they totally underestimated the reaction of the American people over this or he would already be standing in the Rose Garden.

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RE: are complete opposites of each other.
by JP Bill / June 10, 2014 12:14 PM PDT
In reply to: Your cases
the Marine in Mexico had gone to San Diego to get treatment The one in Germany, didn't have PTSD prior to his desertion. .

Does that mean a person can't get/have PTSD UNTIL/UNLESS they are diagnosed with PTSD?

If he has it now, that's HIS fault.


I know you will tell us "exactly when" people get PTSD.


AFTER your tour of duty is completed, WHILE you are on duty, When you arrive at the Drs office, I could go on...but
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Please go on about how you
by TONI H / June 10, 2014 8:06 PM PDT

are such an expert on again letting somebody off the hook for punishment and why. You have a Marine who traveled to a new city to make himself better by getting treatment. And you have a President refusing to get him back here, but willing to trade 5 of the worst humans on earth for a deserter who SOME are saying he COULD have PTSD but otherwise is in good physical condition according to the doctors who ARE treating him right now. IF he was savvy enough to send all his personal belongings home BEFORE he walked off that base and left his vest and gun behind with a note disparaging the USA and his EMPLOYER and IF he was actually overheard by other troops to have been asking locals how to get in touch with the Taliban, and IF the emails he sent ahead of time complaining about the US and IF his father really did email him back in capital letters to "FOLLOW YOUR CONSCIENCE"....does any of that sound like PTSD and his actions were on the spur of the moment or does it sound pre-planned to you?

In my opinion, this is a guy who made a decision to NOT seek out medical help for a condition of any kind when he COULD HAVE. This is a guy who had grandiose ideas of himself as a hero of the Afghani Taliban and when he found himself in trouble with thugs who saw him as a 'prize' of sorts instead of a hero type who wanted to help them somehow, he had to figure out a new way to survive for how ever long it would take, including playing soccer and having arms practices with his 'captors'. No matter what he eventually gets diagnosed with, if anything, he hasn't been punished enough.

The media is reporting that officials where he's located now are saying that he is refusing to talk to his parents.....after all they've done to get him back here????? I suspect that it's the OFFICIALS that are refusing to let him talk to ANYBODY until they have picked his brain as much as possible for tidbits of information they might get from him.....I suspect they are treating him right now much the same way other terrorist prisoners are treated, for as long as they can get away with it. Keep all visitors away, including possibly a lawyer....I wonder if they arrested him and gave him Miranda warnings like they do terrorists now.

This guy made this President look like the fool he is, and they aren't going to allow him to make it worse, just before an election. BO thought he would be seen as a savior.....he just picked the WRONG soldier to help. BO has ALWAYS been a picker of winners and losers, and has ALWAYS picked the wrong side, so why should this be any different?

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Perhaps, instead of spending money on research,
by JP Bill / June 10, 2014 8:37 PM PDT

they should hook them up with you.

"It's a discovery that potentially means we would be able to classify soldiers as to whether or not they have PTSD with very high accuracy, and take the guesswork out of it," she said. "PTSD is now diagnosed clinically, based on emotional and psychological symptoms. This research could lead to faster diagnosis based on an objective measure rather than having a soldier self-identify, which according to the Forces is an ongoing challenge."


"FOLLOW YOUR CONSCIENCE"

"If someone says listen to your conscience, they're not saying 'do whatever you want.' Your conscience is the opposite of the thing that tells you to do whatever you want to do. Your id is the thing that enables your darkest impulses. Think of it as the Fox News of your brain."

an expert on again letting somebody off the hook for punishment and why.

YOU'RE "the expert"...I wasn't letting anyone "off the hook" any more than you are putting people "on the hook". You weren't doing that were you?

MY op was about how difficult it was to diagnose PTSD, AND the article mentioned that British soldiers were executed for cowardice and desertion (it wasn't until 2006 that their families were notified they would receive posthumous pardons).

THEY let the people that were executed "off the hook"/pardoned...unfortunately they were dead.

Kind of an expensive "mistake".

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Re: does any of that sound like PTSD
by JP Bill / June 10, 2014 8:50 PM PDT
does any of that sound like PTSD and his actions were on the spur of the moment or does it sound pre-planned to you?

Are you saying people with PTSD can't "pre-plan"?
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Of course they can
by TONI H / June 10, 2014 10:46 PM PDT

They can also make a conscious decision to pre-plan going to a doctor/medic on base in order to get out of the service if that's what they want as a result....they don't pre-plan to desert and head into enemy territory unless that's what they intended to deliberately do and have considered it for quite a while....that's what this guy did and then carried out the plan. He was sympathetic with the enemy and made that pretty plain and obvious with his emails, his note that he left behind along with his vest and weapon, and his talking ahead of time with locals about how to contact the Taliban. That has no indication of a PTSD disorder, but rather resolution on his part....he followed his conscience and left his troop and others in danger without even a look back. If all he really intended because he was afraid, he could have easily turned himself in ahead of time by refusing to follow orders and be sent to a nice safe brig.....which is where I hope he finally ends up. He should also be tried for murder since at least six of his fellow soldiers died looking for him while putting other missions on hold.

In this administration where nobody is held accountable, this is one instance where it is should be a must.

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Re: his talking ahead of time
by JP Bill / June 11, 2014 12:15 AM PDT
In reply to: Of course they can
his talking ahead of time with locals about how to contact the Taliban.

AND his superiors/ fellow platoon members knew this?

And THEY thought?

Yes...He's OK for Duty?

If they didn't think he was OK...what was he doing out there all by himself or out there at all?

HE thought he was OK...and so did everyone else....UNTIL something happened.

.that's what this guy did and then carried out the plan.

Make everyone think I'm a Taliban sympathizer, and defect? THAT sounds like a plan someone with mental problems would hatch.
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His fellow soldiers
by TONI H / June 11, 2014 1:58 AM PDT

learned of the conversation he had with the locals the day after he 'went missing' (the term this administration continues to use instead of 'deserted') when the locals actually came and told them, so 'no' the soldiers didn't know ahead of time, but found out about it immediately afterward along with the note he left behind pretty much saying the same thing.

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PTSD or Mental problems?
by JP Bill / June 11, 2014 3:31 AM PDT
In reply to: His fellow soldiers

Or are mental problems one of the symptoms of PTSD?

Bergdahl had been acting a little strange, telling people he wanted to "walk the earth" and kept a little journal talking about how he was meant for better things. No one thought anything about it. He was a little "out there". Next morning he's gone.

Said Bergdahl's former squad leader, Greg Leatherman: "I'm pleased to see him returned safely. From experience I hope that he receives adequate reintegration counseling. I believe that an investigation should take place as soon as healthcare professionals deem him fit to endure one."

Acting strange?

Better things? Bring an end to the war? Talking with the Taliban and convince them to give up?

I guess they have to wait until he reports that he is having mental problems.

If only they had the device they are working on that I mentioned in my OP.

They could do a scan everytime before they go out on patrol.

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In one of your posts, you say
by JP Bill / June 11, 2014 3:52 AM PDT
In reply to: His fellow soldiers
his talking ahead of time with locals about how to contact the Taliban.

NO!!!!!!

In another post you say

learned of the conversation he had with the locals the day after he 'went missing'

That's right...they learned of a conversation he had with locals AFTER he left his post...The conversation was after..and they learned of it after....there was NO BEFORE conversations.

We search everywhere, and can't find him. He left his weapon, his kit, and other sensitive items. He only took some water, a compass and a knife. We find some afghan kids shortly after who saw an american walking north asking about where the taliban are.

He wasn't talking with the locals BEFORE he left...He was talking with the locals AFTER he left....
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The first reports
by TONI H / June 11, 2014 4:41 AM PDT

had him talking with locals ahead of his departure....but his troop didn't hear of that until after he was gone already. Later reports 'corrected' or 'manipulated' the news to now report that he talked with them as was leaving....and the troops STILL didn't hear of that until after the desertion. It doesn't matter either way since he had already sent his personal effects home way ahead of time, emailed his father/parents ahead of time disparaging the USA and the military (rec'd a response from the father ahead of time telling him to 'follow his conscience'....which basically was code for 'you have my permission and agreement that you can leave if you want to'), wrote a note to his troops as he left his gear behind disparaging the USA and the military.

Strangely enough.... coincidence....or proof of collusion....take your pick...............

Shortly after he 'disappeared' and knowing the maneuvers and strategies of his troop already, their vehicles began having IED's exploding ahead of their path. Unless he is willing to admit to giving the Taliban information in order to slow down his own troop movement, we may never know about that. I surely hope that he ends up in a court-martial.

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RE: their vehicles began having IED's exploding ahead
by JP Bill / June 11, 2014 4:58 AM PDT
In reply to: The first reports
their vehicles began having IED's exploding ahead of their path.

And That's a bad thing?

'follow his conscience'...

AGAIN with that?
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I don't know...
by Willy / June 10, 2014 9:11 AM PDT
In reply to: PTSD

In my recent reading of many books on the topic our actions in Iraq 1 & 2 conflict and then Afghanistan plus the past history, it boiling dow to what a "person can take" certainly derives from the character that person is when they enter service. No one and no one can understand the PSTD levels one has to endure and yet remain sane afterwards. As they say, "who don't know what it is unless you were there".

Since, you brought up, WWI, remember french soldiers actually mutiny during the latter part of the war as they themselves as falter for poor leadership. The British still relied on old battle tactics and the use of modern warfare certainly didn't help. Later wars provided yet more of a proving ground as new tactics were at least tried and a willingness to proceed with some regard for the men. That certainly not a kind leadership as the job still had to be done. Now, we have the modern age where knowing who your enemy is, is a constant problem having to follow the rules of engagement. Some guys go PTSD as they realized they fired on a auto that wouldn't stop and were only a family, that must weight on a person. I just finished reading a book of a USAF medical neurosurgeon Dr. that deployed in the 2nd Iraq war and served 125 days at post. His constant medical skills in need and seeing those if not his patients caring for military inflicted wounds and also civilian when brought to him. In a MASH type setup on a dirty floor with only plywood surrounding the OR and within a tent that had frequent rocket and mortar barrages, it weights on you. When he return home and later left service after 14yrs. and only those 125 days in conflict theater he developed PTSD. In private service he sought help and got only after realizing he had PTSD and allowed treatment. being a DR. and not seeking help may have been something in his nature until he really opened his eyes as to why he had night sweats and bed modes that are symtoms of PTSD. Oh yeah, he filled out the card of 5 questions upon exiting the Iraq theater. That card is about it or the beginning of seeking treatment yet many don't because heck, I want to go home feeling.

Let's be honest, that dumb a** got caught and became a POW and basically all alone. If for anything, he's allowed to act in his own defense to remain alive. We certainly don't know his conditions during capture but he lived. He had no one else to console with and buddy-up, again all alone, what would your do? As for that Marine, he broke the law crossing the border with weapons, well what do we do here when that happens? being a hardas* can only take you so far, so the rules for US servicemen changed the code of conduct because of Korea conflict and allow you to hold out as long as you can then give something that maybe meaningless at current time but allows you to live another day. That too, was a lesson passed on within the Viet Nam POWs that was officer leadership approved when it could be. -----Willy Happy on post

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