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Programs Crashing and Random Restarts

by AvivGuy / December 17, 2004 5:32 AM PST

I just got my new computer and finished installing it.
Now I have these problems:
1) Random Crashes - Rare, but my computer suddenly restarts, no message, no nothing. Just a plain restart as if I pressed the reset button.
**2) The more annoying problem - Software Crashes - This is the problem that really gets to me, programs (games mostly, but Internet Explorer and even the windows explorer) just randomly get "turned off", it just returns to the desktop, closes the program's process and gives you that "send error report to microsoft" thing, it has no information whatsoever as to what could be the problem and that's REALLY frustrating.

General mumblejumble to know about my computer:
AMD 64bit 3000+ CPU
KV8 Pro Motherboards
Maxtor 120GB (8M cache) (6Y120P0) Hard Disk
DVD X4/X40 LG
Geforce 6800GT 256MB Graphic Card
512 400DDRAM - ADATA Random Acess Memory
Windows XP Pro - no SP1 or SP2 installed.

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what power?
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / December 17, 2004 5:39 AM PST

No mention of the power supply and XP without SP1 or SP2 is invaded by worms within a few minutes of internet use.

This one will be tough for its owner.

Bob

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Power and SP
by AvivGuy / December 17, 2004 6:23 AM PST
In reply to: what power?

Well, I don't believe I have worms, I installed armor2net, which is a pretty good firewall, almost at the same second I got my internet connection working.
I also have a Mcafee antivirus and plan to scan with AdAware.
Besides that, Im just starting a SP2 update, even though I heard a lot of bad things about it (mainly that gives games lots of problems, and this is a gaming machine after all...).
BTW, I ran a memetest86 test (my brother suggested that) and after 7 tests passed with 0 errors, I think its safe to say the problem ain't RAM.
Oh, and I have a 420W power supply that came with the box.
Its a Raidmax Storm (the box).

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XP SP2
by jcrobso / December 17, 2004 6:37 AM PST
In reply to: Power and SP

My first amd 64 bit had similar problem I installed it with XP Pro at SP1, when SP2 came out I installed it and the problems went away. John

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SP2 Installed
by AvivGuy / December 18, 2004 3:05 PM PST
In reply to: XP SP2

And still trouble...
Programs still close, the computer still crashes...
Though one of the games managed to give me:
Engine Error:
failed to lock vertex buffer in CMeshDX8::LockVertexBuffer

Before crashing...
I'll try BIOS update, but I really doubt that'll help...

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That's a good clue.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / December 18, 2004 10:36 PM PST
In reply to: SP2 Installed

It points to out of date video drivers as well as a dated DirectX.

Many resiste updating such and such happens.

Bob

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I'd imagine you're right...
by AvivGuy / December 18, 2004 11:22 PM PST
In reply to: That's a good clue.

...If I didn't already have the latest drivers (fresh from www.nvidia.com) as well as the latest directX (9.0c)...
Though for some reason, dxdiag is having trouble starting up properly, it does work but it says:
dxdiag.exe - Entry Point Not Found
The procedure entry point HrIsIpStateCheckingEnabled could not be located in the dynamic link library netshell.dll.

Also, other programs get unexpectedly shut down without any kind of message, including Internet Explorer and Windows Explorer (except for that error report thing).
I tried updating the BIOS with the BIOS updating software that came with the motherboard, but it can't download the latest BIOS.
So... Whaddya say? (I know I sound kind of ungrateful, but Im currently annoyed at my PC so...)

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That's another clue.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / December 18, 2004 11:40 PM PST

You don't want to know that Spyware was implicated with "HrIsIpStateCheckingEnabled" messages.

Either that or just a corrupt OS.

Bob

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Spyware
by AvivGuy / December 19, 2004 12:32 AM PST
In reply to: That's another clue.

Well, I DO have spyware, atleast according to "spybot search and destroy" which keeps reporting a DSO exploit, claiming to fix it, but finds it again, one spyware check later...
AdAware found its share of spyware as well, and I don't know how much of that it actually removed...
Armor2net didn't block spyware so well I guess, so now it has spywareblaster to help it...
Oh, and Mcafee virus scan doesn't find a thing.
And I doubt its a corrupt OS, its freshly installed and newly updated to SP2 (as you know), it didn't give me any errors during initial install and I installed Windows several times from different disks and the same bug kept appearing...
Any ideas on how I can remove that spyware? Or perhaps other advice?
I'll run my crash-test for a while and come back for your pearls of wisdom (and Im not being cynical).
Oh, and by crash-test, I mean running a game 'till it crashes (I've stopped actually playing, I'll come back later to see my desktop again though \: ).

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The DSOexploit issue is well discussed..
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / December 19, 2004 12:45 AM PST
In reply to: Spyware

It's in the Virus and Security forum and a new version (beta?) was noted.

I defer to that forum on DSOexploit.

See what this automated tool finds -> http://www.hijackthis.de/index.php

Bob

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Report
by AvivGuy / December 19, 2004 1:23 AM PST

I really have no idea exactly what that report means, but it shows most files as safe, some as unknown and none as nasty.
The unknown files are "C:\WINDOWS\system32\savedump.exe" as well as other .exes that I know what they mean (armor2net, my firewall as well as my uguru software which came with the motherboard).
My game-crash test had the following result:
After 25 minutes of idling in the game menu and 5 minutes of actual gaming, I had an unexpected restart.
That made me slightly optimistic, because atleast the usual crash problem didn't appear, until Internet Explorer crashed while I was writing this message for the first time \: )

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"After 25 minutes of idling in the game menu and 5 minutes o
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / December 19, 2004 1:40 AM PST
In reply to: Report

"After 25 minutes of idling in the game menu and 5 minutes of actual gaming, I had an unexpected restart."

That is a good sign that drivers, spyware and such is not the issue.

Try this. Remove the case cover and see if it runs longer.

Bob

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Heating problem?
by AvivGuy / December 19, 2004 2:03 AM PST

Are you suggesting a heating problem?
I have a total of 6 fans spinning in that little computer:
Two fans on the back.
One fan in the front.
One fan on the processor (the standard fan it comes with).
One fan on the graphic card (the one it comes with).
And one fan on the side of the case.
Its also pretty hot, 25 degrees (that's the room temperature).
I don't know if removing the case cover will help, since a fan is mounted there but its worth a shot.
Unless you don't mean its a heating problem, and in that case I made a fool of myself.
*Removes the side cover and tries running the game*
(I'll idle for 25 minutes before I actually play, just in case idling and playing has different effects)

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Results:
by AvivGuy / December 19, 2004 2:37 AM PST

And the results are (drum roll):
25 minutes of menu idling, followed by 2 minutes of loading my save, followed by 10 seconds of playing the game, followed by game freeze.
This time the game didn't freeze completely, the sound kept reapting itself, but no reset, and I did manage to start up the good old task manager and close the game externaly.
How about these results?
I guess it pretty random how the game freezes :\
I'll wait for your response before my next move then.

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Then spyware and BIOS.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / December 17, 2004 6:38 AM PST
In reply to: Power and SP

The next most common items are spyware and the BIOS is not the latest.

Some use drivers that came with the machine... Which are out of date. Others rely on Microsoft for drivers... and Microsoft didn't make your PC.

Bob

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Tests such as removing the covers are ...
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / December 19, 2004 2:17 AM PST

Such suggestions are to sniff out where the issues are. When a forum member decries such "It can't be." then what are we going to do?

Its a simple test that could reveal what next to look at.

I'm unsure why one would resist ... simple.

Bob

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Now call the supplier and ask what part they want first.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / December 19, 2004 2:55 AM PST

You've done all the usual latest BIOS and driver updates and now its time to start exchanging parts.

Sometimes you forget to take the safest bios defaults, but you've been down that road.

Next? Call the supplier and ask what to RMA first.

Bob

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Ouch!
by AvivGuy / December 19, 2004 3:06 AM PST

Well, the BIOS didn't really update, it didn't find any update, even though Im pretty sure there is.
Calling my supplier would be a problem though...
I bought different parts in different places, living in Israel means that buying PC hardware is costs 1.5, so you try and save costs by buying out of country (my dad has coworkers frequently visiting the US that can fetch a part here and there).
I have my processor, RAM, Hard Drive and motherboards all from the same place in the US, Graphic Card is from a different store in US (might be the same, but Im not 100% sure) and the box, mouse and keyboards are all from Israel.
Would you suggest a long-distance phone call? Or perhaps send the parts with the co-workers?
I hate my rotten luck :\

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Building your own doesn't always mean you save.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / December 19, 2004 3:13 AM PST
In reply to: Ouch!

You build your own for its own reasons.

At this point you revealed you didn't update or know if the BIOS is the latest. I'm confused why this would be so...

Let me see the gigabyte web page and how many clicks it takes to find it...

1 for http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=KV8+bios&btnG=Google+Search
2 is for the first link which notes:
" KV8 BIOS 23
Version: 23 Released Date: 2004-11-10

1. Updated VIA SATA RAID BIOS to v4.3.1.
2. Added AMD Sempron CPU support.
3. Fixed an issue where the system always enters VIA SATA BIOS when users press TAB to skip the full screen logo.
4. Calibrated CPU temperature.
5. BIOS compile date: 10/22/2004"

With a date of November 10, 2004 it is unlikely your board has this.

No offense, but what does it take to get this done?

Bob

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Acutally
by AvivGuy / December 19, 2004 3:26 AM PST

What I said was that I couldn't update the BIOS.
I tried the auto-BIOS-updater that came with the motherboards, which attempted to download the latest BIOS and failed miserably.
When I started it, it said that is isn't recommended to install the latest bios because errors in the process of installing could cause damage, or as it said exactly "in case there is a careless operations during BIOS updating, the system BIOS may not function any more.".
Having read that, I was afraid of updating the BIOS, instructing it to auto-install to decrease the margin of error as much as possible.
I remembered reading my BIOS wasn't the latest (though I can't remember where) but I'm afraid of manualy downloading and installing the BIOS because I don't want to mess up my system.
I'll give the auto downloader another chance, and if it fails again I guess I'll have to look up and manualy download and install the latest BIOS.
Im sorry if I didn't make myself perfectly clear, but you can see for yourself how many words that takes Wink
EDIT BEFORE POSTING: OK, the auto-BIOS-updating program says "BIOS Build Date: 10/12/2004", which is not the date you gave me.
The BIOS downloader says it fails in finding the file (AKA, the latest BIOS).
Do you recommend updating manualy? Because it does sound a bit dangerous.

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More Information
by AvivGuy / December 19, 2004 3:38 AM PST
In reply to: Acutally

Well, I can't seem to find a way to edit past messages in CNET, so I'll just have to add this:
I tried refreshing the CNET forum, to check for any more information from you and windows popped up a message saying that an add-on required to view this site, macromedia flash player 6, had some problem and stopped working.
It asked if I wanted to continue viewing this page and I said yes, which gave the good old close-error-report bug.
I wonder, maybe its some sort of RAM or HD problem? Maybe the information in the virtual memory or the RAM got somehow corrupted during work and suddenly caused a problem?

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Out of date BIOS.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / December 19, 2004 3:59 AM PST
In reply to: More Information

There we stand.

Until you decide to bring it up to date, I consider this discussion on hold.

Bob

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Up to date BIOS
by AvivGuy / December 19, 2004 1:24 PM PST
In reply to: Out of date BIOS.

Well, I updated my BIOS yesterday, I got a CMOS Checksum Error after the auto restart after updating, so I tried manualy clearing the CMOS (with the CMOS clearing jumper).
I still got the Checksum Error, but this time I just chose to continue (F1).
My computer ran, I managed 10 minutes of playing before I had to go to sleep, so I left the computer on and in the game all night long.
It didn't crash!
I'm feeling really optimistic, I'll have to wait 'till I get back today before I can run more extensive testing, but I have a ray of hope for my computer.

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Spyware...
by AvivGuy / December 20, 2004 3:41 AM PST
In reply to: Up to date BIOS

...I assume that my computer is now fixed an working (because of that last testing).
Now I have a question:
Do you know of a program (most probably spyware) called Dr. Watson? If it is spyware, how do you remove it? And how do YOU protect yourself from spyware?

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Godamnit!
by AvivGuy / December 20, 2004 4:03 AM PST
In reply to: Spyware...

Well, apparently now problem was fixed...
I tried playing a game now and couldn't play for over 5 minutes, not even an error report popped up, it just closed itself
(**** **** **** **** **** ****)
Any advice now?

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Start with...
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / December 20, 2004 4:36 AM PST
In reply to: Godamnit!

Try this automated tool -> http://www.hijackthis.de/index.php

Its still possible you have a temperature sensitive part. Some will not leave the case cover off to sniff that out. Or the power supply is just not holding up. Tomshardware noted how terrible the lies were at http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20021021/

Because of these items:

1. No spyware allowed.
2. If you use P2P software, your machine is not considered stable.
3. And why I add 100 Watts to "what should be big enough".

Bob

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Started...
by AvivGuy / December 20, 2004 4:52 AM PST
In reply to: Start with...

...Hijack this found no nasty files, only one suspected to be nasty (which was my homepage setting, which I set myself and is pointing to the website I want it to).
It found several unknown files, all of them besides "D:\PROGRA~1\NETWOR~1\COMMON~1\naPrdMgr.exe" are files I know and trust (firewall and a piece of software that came with the motherboards).
If I could give you the .log file somehow I would...
Also, besides a certain game crashin, I had the MSN Messenger crash, followed by crash of some unkown program called Dr. Watson, which I didn't install myself and never heard of, I suspet its spyware or some sort of virus, but before deleting it I would like to be sure its a virus (like you telling me it is).
And regarding the power supply - can a faulty/weak power supply cause only certain processes to crash? I'd imagine it would only be responsible for random restarts (and I haven't had one of those since BIOS update).
It is quite possible though that my power supply is insufficient, I don't know how much power my components need, but a 420W isn't that much (if I recall correctly, my hardware parts are quite the power guzzlers).
And as far as temperature goes, I tried the open-case test, and it didn't help at all, and the limited temperature information I can get (the program that came with the motherboard gives out no values for temperature, even though it should) points to no heating problems (the graphic card isn't even half way to its heat threshold).

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nap* is Mcafee.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / December 20, 2004 5:07 AM PST

But you note something odd. Why would MSN Messenger be running during a game?

Simplify the machine. Eject what you can, when you can.

As to the power. A long time ago it was noted that some CPUs and systems take big gulps of power and subsequently crash. This gave rise to the "Athlon rated" power supply. At the time I found that just tacking on another 50 Watts would give the same results.

If this was my machine, the usual cleanup of running programs and services as well as a whopper power supply (or unplugging anything I can do without) is what I would do.

I fear we are reaching the end of what can be done without changing hardware. It's usually one piece, but finding it is never simple.

And again, if the cover is on, another item that kills many is that parts can become temperature sensitive and fail at ... much less than "half way to its heat threshold".

Again, more clues are needed as well and changing out parts.

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OK
by AvivGuy / December 20, 2004 2:06 PM PST
In reply to: nap* is Mcafee.

First, MSN Messenger wasn't running during a game, I was just talking on MSN, while on the desktop.
I'll try and look for processes I don't want during a game.
I'll give the case door idea another chance.
I'll reinstall windows once I'm able (my other PC is quite old and its HD is quite dead and I need to backup my files SOMEWHERE).
As to changing parts:
I tried switching to my old Geforce MX 420, which didn't help one bit.
I tried a memtest86 which told me my RAM was fine (but I have nothing to replace the RAM with to be sure).
Other than that, its only the hard disk, the power supply and the motherboards that could cause trouble, because those are all the components left (not including the DVD, which should be harmless in this respect).
I'll give it all a try once I get back today.
Thanks.

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You've wasted a turn...
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / December 20, 2004 8:12 PM PST
In reply to: OK

It's very odd you would share a hijackthis log that was not the same as when it crashed (minus the game). This is troubling and shows you don't understand how important this can be.

Shaking my head a little and feeling sorry that you haven't found an item yet....

Bob

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Eh...
by AvivGuy / December 20, 2004 9:49 PM PST

...Im not sure I understand what you meant by what you said.
Do you mean that Hijackthis should be run immedeatly after the crash or...?
And I really didn't find a thing, it was either safe or unknown, and the unknowns are all known (uGuru and Armor2net) and one potentialy nasty (which was just my homepage, as it should be).
I have some free time now so Im going to give the open case idea a shot now.

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