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President Jobs or President Gates

So, who would make the better president? V seems to think Gates because Bill is a philanthropist and she thinks the country needs more of that. Tom really didn't have an opinion.

So, let's consider Molly's preference. Since we KNOW it isn't because she has some weird anti-Mac thing going on (that would be beneath her) it must be one or several of the following:

Molly wants a leader that squashes any threat, no matter the legality of such actions.

Molly wants a leader that takes 5 years to get something done and even when it's declared finished, it's not even close to what was promised in the first place.

Molly wants a leader who has no clue how to come up with innovative solutions to a problem but rather stays the course, takes heavy losses and hopes their big, fat bank account will ultimately get them through it.

Wow, Molly wants a president just like the one we currently have.

Honestly, who do you REALLY think would be a better leader? A charismatic Jobs who can motivate people to believe anything or Gates - somebody who sits back, watches everybody else do it better, surrounds himself with yes men and slowly watches hie empire rot away.

-Kevin S.

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(NT) Gates

In reply to: President Jobs or President Gates

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(NT) Gates for President

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Jobs!

In reply to: President Jobs or President Gates

I hear Gates does a lot of charity and has a fancy house somewhere in Seattle?

But... I'm gonna go w/ Jobs. For a man who started with nothing, help co-create an empire then somehow getting fired (persay) and returns back to the company he help create to make it better. I'm gonna say Jobs is the man.

Plus, his name is "Job" and who doesn't need one! ? Happy

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(NT) Gates!!!! for president

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Jobs actually cares about the consumer...

In reply to: President Jobs or President Gates

... so if he were president he could knock down all of these crazy bills from the RIAA and MPAA, and net neutrality.

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Agreed

In reply to: Jobs actually cares about the consumer...

Gates and company have done little more than make deals with the devil. Since they've agreed to pay Universal blood money for every Zune sold, it's opening the floodgates for lawsuits or expectations that every other company will do the same.

Gates' "brilliance" in leadership has been little more than being the provider of a mediocre solution at the right place and time and ensuring that dominance by squashing the competition - usually outside of the bounds of free trade. Like I said, a Gates presidency would be the status quo.

People have shouted the same for dorks like Ross Perot, Michael Eisner and Lee Iacocca - the CEO of a Megacorp Should Be President argument. It's dumb. Please stop it.

-Kevin

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Would Prez Gates mean VP Ballmer?

In reply to: President Jobs or President Gates

Then I'd vote for 3rd party candidate Larry Ellison Wink

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hehe

In reply to: Would Prez Gates mean VP Ballmer?

I'd guess as much since, like our country's current leadership, I always got the feeling Balmer has been the one who has really been driving the car for the past few years.

-Kevin S.

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How about linus?

In reply to: President Jobs or President Gates

Linus Torvalds would make a good president 'cause he'd make everything free.

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Gates - Shrewd businessman; Jobs - Visionary leader...

In reply to: President Jobs or President Gates

Gates - Shrewd businessman; Jobs - Visionary leader...

I choose Jobs as president. Although, keep the meds handy if he goes off on someone in the bathroom - I've heard of that happening before.

If they could serve on the same administration, I would say Jobs as president and Gates as Sec. of State (for the hard bargaining in international politics).

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Who's your daddy?

In reply to: Gates - Shrewd businessman; Jobs - Visionary leader...

Though I've never understood quite why people think Jobs isn't more brilliant with business than Gates. People just look at the sheer number of PCs and somehow think that's a mark of brilliance.

Jobs came back to Apple and pulled it from near collapse and obscurity into a company with one of the largest tech mindshares in the industry. It is highly profitable, has billions in cash reserves, stock that continues to climb and when Jobs talks to the Movie and Record industry he says "who's your daddy?"

-Kevin S.

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so...yeah, same here...

In reply to: Who's your daddy?

I think Gates success is mostly due to being a shrewd businessman.

Jobs inspires those around him and creates success from having folks.

I'd much rather work for someone who inspires the best from me rather than prevents the worst from happening. Forward progress by looking forward, not by looking over your shoulder.

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Neither

In reply to: President Jobs or President Gates

Leading a corporation is very different from leading a country. The conditions of leadership and the conditions of the enterprise are totally different.

I'm not saying a corporate leader is disqualified for any reason, but just as being a successful military leader does not assure you will be a successful President, so does being a successful corporate leader not assure you of the same thing. In fact there are some conditions of being incorporated that lead me to think a corporate leader has an uphill battle to prove they are capable.

A corporation is a legal entity chartered by the state. The actions of the corporation do not fall on the responsibility of any single member. In fact, the corporation is treated legally as a fictitious 'preson' thereby absolving the individuals of responsibility for the actions of the corporation as a whole. The leader of the corporation is beholden legally to the interests of the stockholders, a small group of people with a lot of money. Stockholders almost universally demand a profit and usually in a short-term timeframe.

The government is supposed to be beholden to every citizen, not just the rich. Additionally the aim of government is the opposite of a corporation, it is the welfare of the people. The government is not supposed to turn a profit, but in fact, shouldn't be in the business of making money at all, except in so much as it must pay for its role in protecting the welfare of its citizens.

So in my opinion, the profit-motive works very well for business but is not the way to govern. The government should protect the right of its people to make money, and therefore not be in the business of profit itself. Also, the immunity from individual responsibility that the corporate charter represents, may be a good thing for business, but would be utterly abhorrent in government. Our government should be of the people, by the people, but not a fictious 'person' of our oen.

No doubt, Steve Jobs and Bill Gates are smart men, with altruistic sides, and excellent ideas. But they have both been in a world that does not consider people first, and pursues profit for a small group at the primary. That is not how I want my government run. They would have to do a lot of proving that they can work outside that framework before either of them would get my vote.

-Tom

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QED...almost...

In reply to: Neither

I really enjoyed reading that, Tom! I have an example of a counterpoint, sorta:

I remember Rudy Gulliani once saying that when he became Mayor of New York, he viewed all the NYC Burroughs and neighborhoods as businesses and the voting public as stockholders. He proceeded to rid the city of a horrible crime rate (at least for a big city) and enable the different neighborhoods to increase their value based on competitive advantage or other means. I'm not sure if what works for NYC won't work for smaller cities...I think the fundamentals will still apply well as long as the voting public vote in their own best interest based on whatever personal, community, or societal values they have.

Lou Dobbs has said that the politicians and other countries just look at America as an economic engine - for the most part, I agree. But ask any immigrant why they come to America, and you'll mostly likely get an answer of "for the opportunity to make the kind of money I can only dream of from where I come from".

Further, Jack Welch (who I really didn't get at first, not soo much anymore) has said that most corporate boards are chicken about moving forward for fear of their name being smeared if there is a "failure" - most visionary CEOs have an uphill battle with their boards. I think it's unfortunate that failure is soo chastised in corporate America business - I would link it to impatience and over-competitiveness in the marketplace. Mid-term strategy for a long-term goal is the way to go. Short-term strategy are mid-course corrections to enable Mid-term milestones to be achieved, and also to deal with financial emergencies.

Now it seems that America's economy and societal characteristics are not complimenting each other as they once were and in fact, they're distancing themselves from each other. I see the results of the recent elections as a reaction to get into a balance once again - as a taxpayer I look forward to working towards that.

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Well said, except...

In reply to: Neither

I was making a similar point in one of my posts above where I mention (in so many words) that I always find it absurd that people pick CEOs of mega corps and think they will be a good president (like Perot, Iacocca and Eisner - my examples). And it's dumb.

I don't put Jobs in that same category. He has been a successful business man but Number 1: we know he is a very charismatic individual, hence the term "Jobs' Reality Distortion Field." Number 2: we also know that he has stuck to his guns regarding his vision for a better way of (computing) life when it has probably kept the Macintosh market share to a fraction of the PCs (thank god). He refused to open the platform and make it become the chaotic jumbled mess of infinite configuration that is the PC world. And... that cost him market share.

He also went to bat for the people by not budging on the delivery of music for 99 cents. He ultimately seems to get what's good for most consumers. And don't blame the DRM issue on him. As you've all seen, that comes from the movie/recording industry.

So sure, Tom. The easy way out on this is to glop Steve Jobs in the same category as Bill Gates and make everybody happy by saying they are equally bad choices because they are flip sides of the same coin, right? Not even close. But your argument about what the government should really be doing is sound and I believe in it. I just personally think Jobs has proven he governs (leads, rules, whatever) in a way that he feels will give people a better way of life, even at the expense of market share. He's not even close to being a saint but he does what leaders do; he makes people around him get the job done. Consumers everywhere have benefited from it, whether they buy into his vision or the ripoff that tries to copy it every 5 years.

-Kevin S.

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hmmm...nice points...

In reply to: Well said, except...

hmmm...now I see myself putting Gates, Jobs, Wozniak, as heads of different agencies instead of president because of their lack of legislative experience...

Sec. of State: Gates
Dept. of Education: Wozniak
EPA: Jobs or Torvalds
NASA: Jobs or Torvalds

Other great nominations can probably be found here: http://www.ted.com/

say...whatever happened to that Fantasy congress league - are write-ins allowed?...hmm...

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Jobs would add a few features every 6 months

In reply to: President Jobs or President Gates

and stop supporting the old versions. Plus taxpayers cant afford to pay $2000 for a MacBook while a Dell would do the same for half that.

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Gates

In reply to: President Jobs or President Gates

He'd be more universally compatible and a little less proprietary!

Oh, and the Europeans already dislike us anyways, so why disappoint them.

Happy

Griz

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(NT) nice! :)

In reply to: Gates

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(NT) I for one welcome our Corporate Computer overlords.

In reply to: President Jobs or President Gates

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