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General discussion

"Pope Benedict XVI called Sunday for an end to all wars

Jul 22, 2007 1:31PM PDT

Pope Benedict XVI called Sunday for an end to all wars, describing them as "useless slaughters" that bring hell to Earth.
...Benedict did not cite any particular conflicts in his comments to several hundred faithful who gathered in Lorenzago di Cadore's main piazza for his traditional Sunday blessing.
...He reminded the faithful that God put man on Earth to take care of his "paradise," but that man sinned and began making war."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070722/ap_on_re_eu/pope_peace

If his words have any effect it will be good news for the next set of civilians who would have been caught in the next crossfire.
Will RC priests who are chaplains in the various armies be stopped from praying for 'their side'? Will Protestant and Muslim chaplains be required to follow suit?

The world awaits ...

Discussion is locked

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The Paul apostate thing was
Jul 28, 2007 3:49PM PDT

one of the endless rant-by-rant threads. ("Please explain.") Of course, he certainly was an apostate from Judaism as practiced then.

I thought your typo was a typical slip of the mind, but LOL funny. In this context the two are antonyms. Easy enough for a reader to spot, and the correct word was obvious. (They're the same for the first 5 of the 7 or so letters.) Made my day.

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Apostate Thing?
Jul 29, 2007 7:43AM PDT

Doug, "I thought your typo was a typical slip of the mind."
Are you picking on Steven? :

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I meant not,
Jul 29, 2007 9:01AM PDT

'typical of Steven' but

'common to all of us from time to time'.

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Keyboard all fixed
Jul 29, 2007 9:28AM PDT

full of cookie crumbs again. Happy

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Low Key?
Jul 29, 2007 8:13AM PDT

"Christian peoples are supposed to be willing to accept death for their faith but radical Islam calls for it's people to seek it."
WEIRD, isn't it!

-Kevin

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Edw. Gibbon reports on some Roman-era
Jul 29, 2007 9:16AM PDT

ones who went out of their way to seek their own deaths for religious reasons. IOW they might go up to a local official, in times of active persecution, and say, 'I'm a Christian; whatcha gonna do about it?' I don't find that tactic in my bible- just the opposite. Gibbon didn't think much of it, either, realizing that could be counterproductive to the spread of the faith. That, in turn, would be contrary to explicit instructions: Mt 28:19,20.

As I mentioned elsewhere, the method of Muslim extremeists is actually sensible, if their religion is true: They leave a short, miserable life of poverty and oppression on earth for Paradise. A no-brainer IMO. And I don't see such a big difference in statements currently being made nationwide at military funerals: 'Well, at least good Soldier Schweik is at home with the Lord [Jesus], as a reward for defending his country'. If that's true then it's also a no-brainer to sign up and volunteer for either of the two fronts. [And by any standard, Allah and Jesus are two different people; I think that means at least one side is ... dead wrong.]

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Edw. Gibbon reports on some Roman-era?
Jul 30, 2007 7:56AM PDT

Doug. I will leave that subject alone. Dead wrong? Too controversial, especially today to comment on.
Too risky also. Do you have life insurance? Ihope so. Too many extremists around that can find you at any given time.
You have to be careful with certain posts.

Who invented the internet? I know. Do you? And why?
Clue. It was not England.


-Kevin

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Extremists. Like these?
Jul 30, 2007 5:37PM PDT

Acts 19:23-34.
Or these?
Acts 5:17-42.

The first cited were godless pagan idolaters; can't expect any better from those.
The second were the leaders of the mainstream religion of the place and time, and an arm of the Empire as regards to religious matters. So Peter was disobeying church and state.

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It has been one week.
Jul 29, 2007 9:34AM PDT

In that time there have been many good questions raised and many good comments put forth. I also sensed a general view that we're not fond of war. (Or, at least, of getting killed in one.)

Has anyone asked these questions of the Pope or offered him the comments? (Applies to non-RC as well. His theology says that he stands in for Christ as shepherd to all.)
If yes, has anyone received an answer?
For the RC's, what has your local priest said?
Has there been any detectable lessening in wars anywhere?

Was Stalin right?

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As you probably already know
Jul 29, 2007 10:37AM PDT

part of the mass included prayers of intercession sometimes called "prayers of the faithful". These aren't canned like some. The list can be lengthy. Exact authorship of each entry isn't given but surely the priest must approve of what is to be asked. I cannot remember a time when the inclusion of the 'ending of suffering from war' was absent. As well, it's common to ask that world leaders be 'moved to make wise decisions that will bring about the end of tragedy and suffering of the innocent'. Such is the generally phraseology of the petitions. There is no mention of leaders by name or country. Nor is there a suggestion of exactly how God should do this. As for the pope, we trust his awareness of world events and realize his limits. His leadership role and worldly mission varies greatly from those who control armies and arsenals of war.

I used the term "prayers of intercession". I fully expect a rise from the eyebrows on this one. Happy And I'll stick my neck out and put words in the pope's mouth here but, I am willing to bet, he'd tell us that no individual's sincere prayers....yours, mine, the popes, anyones....are heard by God with a louder voice.

As for your question about "...detectable lessening of wars...", I'd say we need to leave out the word detectable. We can't know that. Perhaps a brewing conflict has been avoided. Perhaps it wouldn't have even come to a head in our lifetime. Some measurements of our work and actions aren't ours to take.

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(NT) I'll take that as "No". Anyone else have more success?
Jul 29, 2007 11:47PM PDT
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It should be fair to ask the same questions of you...
Jul 30, 2007 2:44AM PDT

...and I see four that are fair game. I'm not sure what the Stalin reference was for so cannot respond to that. But just who, in your mind, is not doing their job here?....and who is?

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Stalin, they say,
Jul 30, 2007 7:02AM PDT

was told to beware of making the Pope angry. He replied, "How many divisions does the Pope have?" World leaders still pay no more than lip service to their fellow head of state.

I myself have had no success at ending war, nor do I expect any. That's Jehovah's job.
"Jehovah is a manly person of war. Jehovah is his name." Ex 15:3
"Come, you people, behold the activities of Jehovah, how he has set astonishing events on the earth. He is making wars to cease to the extremity of the earth. The bow he breaks apart and does cut the spear in pieces; the wagons [war chariots] he burns in the fire." Ps 46:8,9
"And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite." Dan 2:44
And don't forget the "place that is called in Hebrew Har-Magedon".

Jesus left Benedict and me a model for prayer, "intercessory" or not: "YOU must pray, then, this way: "'Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified. Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth....'"
How can I act in harmony with that prayer? Not by throwing in with men and their governments and religions. I can do that by obeying the one who taught it:
"And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come." Mt 24:14
"Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things." Mt 28:19,20
"We are therefore ambassadors substituting for Christ, as though God were making entreaty through us. As substitutes for Christ we beg: "Become reconciled to God." 2 Cor 5:20
When we take the Kingdom message to a door and it is accepted, that person no longer takes part in men's wars. No to be more a danger to you or a Lutheran or an atheist. That's my job. The churches' methods have produced men who will pray to their god for bad cess to their country's co-religionist enemies. After Benedict's statements I thought there might be a change in his thinking; you report none that you know of.

The book I use predicts an increase in problems, not a lessening. (1 Tim 3:1-5, Mt 24:4-12)

What has your priest said to all this?

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Faith:
Jul 30, 2007 8:48AM PDT

Doug, Two elderly Jehovah's Witness's came to my home about twenty years ago here in New England.
I always greeted these two gracious ladies every time they stopped to greet me. After about two years of talking to them I asked them? Would you really want to see God's work?
Surprised, they followed me out to the font of my garden.
I showed them all the Daylilies that I was growing and hybridizing.
They just stared at and viewed all the beautiful flowers in my garden.
These two woman became my friends for years after seeing the beauty of nature and the Lords work and never quoted scriptures ever again to me. These two ladies just wanted to see the Lord's work in my garden year-round.
I miss these woman still today.

-Kevin

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(NT) I guess, in that instance, Stalin is correct
Jul 30, 2007 10:56AM PDT