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General discussion

Poll: Would you consider buying a hybrid or alternative-fuel car?

May 2, 2007 6:46AM PDT

Would you consider buying a hybrid or alternative-fuel car?

-- Yes (Which one?)
-- No (Why not?)
-- Maybe someday (What's holding you back now?)
-- I already own a hybrid or alternative-fuel car (Which one, and what do you think of it?)

Discussion is locked

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Very true.
May 20, 2007 1:49AM PDT

You are correct. However, the point I'm making is if EVERYONE in the US was driving an electric car, they would all have to charge their cars every single night. That would add millions of KwH to the demand. Our current infrastructure could not support that kind of demand. This would force us to build many power plants.

Natural Gas is limited. Coal is being phased out. Nuclear lol the eco-nuts would go crazy if we tried that. Wind, Solar and Hydro power is no where close to providing enough power to fill that gap. Not to mention people would charge their cars at night, when Solar and Wind power would be minimal.

So what do you suggest? My guess is, the demand for oil would be lower, thereby lowering the price. I would wager new power plants would run on Oil since it's the only thing availible.

I understand that *currently* we don't use much oil power generation. But you have to look ahead to the future of the energy market. Moving to electric powered cars would change the whole dynamic of the market. Things would not stay the same if you make this sort of large shift in energy useage.

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Hi Andy, we meet again.
May 20, 2007 4:22AM PDT

I agree with you on the Oil fired power generating, for the most part solar, wind and Hydro can not take up all the slack of such a demand, but can I make a point?

The Solar home systems generate power during the day and store them in battery banks, to run the home or charge the car at night. Also it is my understanding that when demand is lower it is cheeper to provide electricity. That one of the current problems producers of electicity have is balancing the load. As transmission lines get hot, they get less efficent, and conversly require more power to force the needed energy to the homes. If you had storage battries in the homes providing a buffer, be they charged from solar on the roof (best scenario) or power at night during a lower demand cycle you are begining to level out the peaks and valleys in the demand curve. You pick up significant savings in not delivering during peak demand, avoid the dreded rolling blackouts of early the early 2000's in California, and help delay the need for more powerplants.

Hope Life in Ohio is treating you well, and I look forward to your reply.

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It's not that bad Andy,
May 20, 2007 5:15AM PDT

Drink Lots of Beer before you watch it and it is more than mildly entertaining. Have you seen this new ad campagin from Shell? The one about slant drilling to smaller pockets of oil from a single rig? They act like slant drilling is something new? The technology is nothing new, it is used all the time but the spin doctors and smoke and mirrors folks at Shell's ad agency makes it sound like wow, the whole globe is just a giant oil reserve and all we need to do is find all the little pockets and suck them dry!

It really looks like a direct response to the Movie "Crude Awakenings" that I suffered thru at a friends house one night but of course an Inconinent Truth had to probably had started it. I call it that cause it has more BS and leaky lodgic in it than a 90 year old on Red Bull. If they are having to call spin doctors, they figure the public is actually paying attention to the problem, and that scares them.

I have a friend who is so left she almost falls off the table, and after viewing I.T. they were all fired up to sell their gas hog pickup and get a Hybrid. It has been a year, and no hybrid has shown up in thier driveway, and it ain't cause they cant afford it. I am really dying to ask her why, but I dread the two hour discussion on what is really wrong with the government, and bush, and Iraq, and.....
so I don't ask.

Me, I personally put my 1994 Nisan UD1800 up for sale, and bought a Ford F-250 Turbodiesel. It burns cleaner, tows nearly as well as the UD-1800 but I don't get a Jake Brake because of the Variable Geometery Turbo on it. Sad

I need a truck to tow my stuff, but I went with one with good power and good emissions for a diesel. In reality I am not as safe with a lighter truck towing my trailer, and even with the better tow/haul transmission mode which downshifts for braking as you apply brakes, and the intergrated trailer brake controller to my trucks antilock system, I still would like the safety of a Jake Brake, but I am willing to take that minor increase in risk, for good mileage, a better ride, and lower emissions. After the Warranty is up on this thing I will put a Gale Banks Powerpack system on it and increase my mileage, and reduce emmissions due to better combustion. And when I need that extra horsepower, it is there in six easily adjustable levels of power enhancement.

No I will not take a $10,000 hit to my bottom line to scrap my Nisan, but right now till it sells I am not driving it so it is not polluting. Now if someone wants to pay me the value of it to take it off the road, I am all ears.

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more handwaving about costs
May 20, 2007 6:24PM PDT

Although I can't say I'm well versed in electric cars since I don't have one (I only have a Prius), I don't know where you're getting your $100 at the pump vs. $100 at the outlet.

Compare the 2003 Toyota RAV4 EV at http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/sbs.htm to say an 07 Prius and 07 Corolla. The cost to drive 25 miles in each is $0.60, $1.41 and $2.35 respectively. Even if I up the KwH price to 0.12 (what ripoff PG&E charges where I live w/taxes), the cost for the RAV4 EV is $0.90.

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Hybrid? Maybe when the Volt comes out
May 2, 2007 12:55PM PDT

I wouldn't buy one now because they're so UGLY! The Honda Insight was bad enough. The Prius is in a whole new category of ugly. I'll buy a Volt if it's better looking than the Honda/Toyota cars. I'm a Chevy girl anyway. Meanwhile I have my flawless 6 cylinder '95 Camaro and my little Mercedes C230K. They get OK mileage for now.

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An alternative Fuel Vehicle???
May 2, 2007 1:03PM PDT

No I would NOT consider buying a hybrid or alternative fuel car!

Why? Economics...simple: The old pay me now or pay me later reasoning. Consider - I own a 2001 pickup with a V8 getting 14-16 in town and 19-22 on highway. If I were to "upgrade" (term used very loosely here) to a hybrid or alternative fuel vehicle, it would cost me in round numbers about $30,000 (after licensing, tax, and purchase) plus I would STILL have to purchase gas (or electricity) for motive force. The way I figure the numbers, I can buy a lot of gas for $450/mo I would have to spend in payments.

Give me a Chevy V8 any day!!

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Nope wouldn't buy one
May 2, 2007 1:15PM PDT

Not to mention the price of cars these days, I wouldn't buy one cause they are purely a transitional car. The big guys up top are too afraid of the economical impact of converting straight to alternative fuels so they introduced hybrids to "cusion the blow". Why by some expensive new car when you will just have to buy another one down the road when the conversion is complete?

But personally I will never buy a new car anyways, they are all cheap tin cans anymore, no quality metals, plastics or electronics. Just like everything anymore, cheap, cheap, cheap and very expensive.

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It's always been that way!
May 3, 2007 5:19PM PDT

Inexpensive cars have always been cheap, to keep the price down. If you want something luxurious with high quality and lots of fancy stuff, you'll have to spend at least $40000. Obviously you're not in the market for such a car. Neither can you justify buying a hybrid for about $22-26K. I suggest getting a horse-driven carriage!

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Funny
May 4, 2007 8:57PM PDT

I meant ALL cars. I am talking about quality of parts. Solid plastics, tough strong metals, the stuff old cars were made of. Now even your fancy very expensive cars are made out of cheap materials. Just look at an old part compared to a new one, sure the old one is heavier, but we now have stronger lighter metals. But instead we replace all that metal and durability with cheap model plastic that in 10 years is all bleached or worn cause it was painted. So tell me how a new car starting at $20,000 minimum is worth it when an old car that cost $5,000 when it was new is built with tougher stronger parts that STILL WORK!!!! Old stuff lasts forever, this new crap you will be lucky if it works when you buy it. It doesn't matter how much you spend, the quality of the materials these days is utter garbage.

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I agree
May 5, 2007 7:12AM PDT

Teslaman is right. I few years back I owned a Chevy Lumina when the alternator blow up for the second time. Working at a dealership has it's advantages. One of the car guys there brought out an old alternator from the early 80s. The difference was amazing. Mine weighed a ton less, but the metal was thin and weak. Whereas the old one was very thick and tough. He told me he replaces all the new ones on his cars with old ones because they do not over heat. The thin metal on the new ones doesn't have the surface space to cool it enough, and they ware out. I put the 80s alternator on my car, and it lasted till I got rid of the car. I bet it's still working where ever that old Lumina is.

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Flawed logic!
May 3, 2007 5:02PM PDT

If you are not in the market for a new car, then I would agree with you. But people who are looking for a new car, should seriously consider getting a hybrid, especially a Prius. I just bought a new Prius Touring Edition for 26K plus taxes and fees. That was almost 4K off the sticker price! It has leather, navigation, JBL stereo, Bluetooth, Sirius radio, etc. A comparably equipped 4-cylinder Honda Accord would run me about the same, maybe a little less. Yet according to Consumer Reports, the 4-cylinder Accord gets 24 mpg combined and the Prius gets 44 mpg combined. Now that gas is over $3.30 per gallon in southern California, I'd say the Prius is a pretty good buy. Don't knock it 'till you try it! But then most people who drive big pickups and SUV's are not really interested in hybrids, like the Prius. That's just fine with me. There will always be a market for trucks. But I can't help but smile when I get 40-50 mpg and guys who work with me get 14-18 mpg in their big pickups. Enjoy your pickup. I know I enjoy my Prius!

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Hybrids
May 2, 2007 1:10PM PDT

I currently own a petrol Lexus, and they are now bringing out some very impressive petrol/ electric hybrids. I would certainly consider one when I change over in a couple of years, even if there is no significant price saving

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Maybe...
May 2, 2007 1:11PM PDT

When they come out with one that has the power to pull a fully rigged boat, then I'll consider it.

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look at the toyota highlander it can pull a boat
May 2, 2007 2:11PM PDT

there are already hybrids that can pull a boat or a trailer so that not an issue any more the main issue for me is I want a large vehicle that can also be pluged in so I am waiting for a large vehilce like the toyota Highlander that is plugable so i can run an efficent vehicle to and from work and shopping and deal with the higher cost when going camping were i need the larger space

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towing?
May 2, 2007 3:16PM PDT

Sorry but I believe he meant a vehicle that would tow over 5,ooo pounds. A Highlander would die if it tried that every day. As someone who need a vehicle that can tow with little effort there are not real hybrids available. My next vehicle will be a diesel.

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A gas powered highlander can't even pull a boat...
May 10, 2007 1:40PM PDT

I drive for a very large delivery company and we use all sorts of alternative fuel vehicles. I remember driving a CNG truck one time and it was so weak you couldn't even do 55 on the highway (not to mention it took almost 10 miles to reach 55 mph).

I'll wait for the better technology to come along and let the rest of you fund it while you're buying the current (limited) technology.

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It may be able to pull a boat, but not much of one...
May 16, 2007 4:48PM PDT

When I refer to towing a trailer I mean a TRAILER! While you may be able to tow your runabout or small ski boat with a highlander you can't safely tow a 26' Trophy or a 29' travel trailer. I am strongly considering a Prius for my wife and for around town driving and even some long distance stuff where I dont need cargo capacity. I too would rather wait for a Plug In Hybrid and am sort of put off by the $10K it would take to do an aftermarket mod to a new Prius.

This does not mean I am going to sell my F250 Power Stroke Diesel. It can Safely and LEGALY tow my 5th wheel, a travel trailer or a boat/trailer combo exceeding 10,000 lbs and has been built to do so. If you drive a newer F250 with Tow Command intergrated brake controller and the Tow/Haul mode in the trany you will NEVER want to tow with anything else. Now having said that, I am more than happy to run it on biodiesel, and am not totally against the idea of french Fry oil, but since I will be adding a Banks Powerpak upgrade I will leave it to Gale Banks and Boys to tell me what I should run in my truck.

PHEV's have a great advantage, and coupled with a solar panel array on your roof, you can drive virtually pollution free for the first 100 miles or so. I read recently that some users are looking at the ability to sell excess power back to the electic company. It is a little like time shifting on a Tivo.

You come home at 5 pm, with a hybrid that has been set up to run a bit more agressively on gas, and you plug into the grid. The electric company draws power from your vehicle to help meet local demand during peak hours, and then late in the evening when demand is low, they charge your car back up to capacity at a lower cost to you than you charged them during peak. it has to do with how much power you can move over the grid and the ability to have it when you need it. Anyway I know nothing is free, and even the solar arrays on the roof are far too expensive without a subsidy from the state or feds or both. But we need to do something, because if we do nothing we know what eventually will happen.

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Highlander Hybrid
Jun 1, 2007 6:59AM PDT

I strongly considered a Highlander Hybrid when I got my last SUV, but the difference in mpg from the hybrid to the non-hybrid models was not great enough to justify the difference in price.

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Electric Cars are the real answer
May 2, 2007 1:12PM PDT

I believe that electric cars are the future of transportation. The distribution system is already in place - almost every home or business already has electricity, and it's easily attached to almost any electrical device (such as an electric car).

The only thing currently preventing electric cars from replacing cars fueled with any other fuel is a high-capacity, quick-charge, reasonably priced battery. Nanotechnology research seems to show promise for creating such a battery (hopefully in the near future).

I think most driving is less than 150 miles per day, so even in the short term, some batteries may be capable of supplying power for that mileage in the reasonably near future.

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Hybrid fuel??? HELL yes!!!
May 2, 2007 1:13PM PDT

I converted a 1976 Ford pickup to run on 85% Ethanol about 10 years ago. . . . It's simple to do.

I go to the gas station, buy 5 gallons of OVERPRICED FUEL and mix it with my "home-made" mixture. . . . It works fine.

I use solar power to do the distillation process and feed the "mash" to my chickens (relatively FREE eggs and a chicken dinner every once in awhile) and everyone is happy EXCEPT the Gas Station owner.

Lynn
Iowa

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(NT) - and that occasional chicken!
May 2, 2007 1:24PM PDT
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Finally
May 3, 2007 4:47AM PDT

Lynn,
Finally, someone who really gets it and does it. Everyone is so concerned about how many mpg they get as opposed to helping the environment. Shouldn't that be the main reason that we want to change from gas to an alternative fuel? Think about the planet before yourselves for a change. Hurray for you Lynn!

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uhm .... why can't I do both?
May 3, 2007 5:13AM PDT

"Everyone is so concerned about how many mpg they get as opposed to helping the environment."

Those two things do not seem to be mutually exclusive to me ... it seems like I get the latter by doing the former ... but I do agree that it is a shame that so many people scoff at the newer technologies if they are forced to alter their lifestyles slightly or won't save a bundle of money ...

Regards,
Greg

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Mainly because I don't buy the 'sky is falling' montra.
May 5, 2007 7:22AM PDT

First, very few of the people who claim to care about the environment act like it outside of their personal issue they support. For example, Al Gore. You all should drive tiny uncomfortable two seat midget mobiles, while I fly around on a personal jet burning thousands of gallons of fuel.

Further, it's amazing how many environmentalist I meet that are just as hypocritical. One railed against me about saving the planet, how we should shut down Las Vegas, because in his own words "everything is worth it, to save the planet". So I asked him where his house was, so I could see no lights on at night, and see his car, make sure it was a tiny slug midget mobile. He whined to me that "my family doesn't fit in those tiny cars". Oops, I thought anything was worth it to 'save the planet'.

Further, there is little real evidence that producing CO2, a normal naturally occuring gas in nature, is going to destroy the planet. Remember a lie repeated enough becomes truth. We're all going to die if we don't stop making a natural harmless gas CO2. Gimme a break.

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Yes.. and not for for the "economy"....
May 2, 2007 1:13PM PDT

... but for the "ecology"!! When you consider how current gasoline engines pollute the MOST when they are just idling in gridlock, or when accelerating in stop-go traffic, I'd say it makes the MOST sense to have an electric/hybrid vehicle!! Sure, the overall math may not be "cheaper" on your pocket, but hey, I'd be a li'l happier to know that I AM trying to give back something by being a little less polluting (the very fact that I'll have opted for a "personal transport" as against "public transport" is bad enough in itself!!).

So how come no body seems to be looking at the Lexus hybrids..? Just curious!

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My Civic gets 38mpg on the freeway
May 2, 2007 1:14PM PDT

Why would I go with a hybrid? My '98 Civic already gets about 38mpg on the freeway which is where I do most of my driving. I live about 62 miles from where I work. So biking to work or walking or jogging or riding a horse is not an option. I am forced to pay the outrageous price that oil companies have FIXED for the consumers to pay. You might say, "Well you could always move....." That really isn't an option either. I own my house where I live and in order to buy a house closer to where I work I wouldn't be able to afford the mortgage. Basically, I am screwed between big business and the greenies....

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Hybreds are transitory
May 2, 2007 1:16PM PDT

Hybrids have a history.

When steam was introduced to sailing ships they used both sail and steam for a time. When jet engines were introduced, aircraft were built with both piston and jet engines. Electric and internal combustion engine technology will be the same. Hybrids are be transitory and pure electric power will take over - probably rather quickly.

All that's really needed for electrics is fast charge times. A 200 mile range is acceptable if the vehicle can be recharged in 10 minutes. Batteries with even faster charge times are now in the labs. Once the car builders see electrics are the future, vast sums will be spent on battery research and range will increase further.

Would I buy a hybrid? No. I'll wait for the practical electric.

Bill D

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Hybrid? NO! Diesel/Biodiesel? Of Course!
May 3, 2007 9:03AM PDT

"Once the car builders see electrics are the future, vast sums will be spent on battery research and range will increase further."

The problem there is the 'vast sums' part. That translates to consumer loss. Electric is alright for golf carts and forklifts. 200 miles isn't very far. 10 minute recharge? Where? At a power station? Another service to pay for. And the electricity has to come from somewhere. Stick with liquid fuels, the infrastructure is already in place. Force regulations on pricing. New vehicle prices put them out of reach of the average worker. My trucks are paid off, why would I want another monthly bill?

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No new cars--yet
May 2, 2007 1:18PM PDT

In 2004, I bought a 10 year warranty, attached to a Sonata. So, my next purchase is planned for 2014 or thereabouts. However, the price of a hybrid was 2X the Sonata price tag. Hm. What would YOU do?

OTOH, the mileage and silent driving features of hybrids are fabulous.

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Hybred Choice - The Ford Escape
May 2, 2007 1:20PM PDT

Every hybred, except for the Ford Escape makes the owner suffer daily in some way or another. They either have no room or are sooooooooo ugly that you have to sneek up on them just to get inside. And the EPA is finding the real world mileage is much worse than the lab tests show. Next year's Toyota will show it's mileage down considerably from this year's for this reason. At least the Escape is a real vehicle, designed first for comfort and utility and secondly married with a fuel efficient power system. It may only be rated in the mid 30s for MPG, but you don't have to sacrifice your normal life style to achieve the benefits.