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General discussion

Poll: What nationality's carmakers build the better car?

Jun 20, 2007 8:25AM PDT

For the average consumer, what nationality's carmakers build the better car?

American (Why?)
British (Why?)
Chinese (Why?)
French (Why?)
German (Why?)
Italian (Why?)
Japanese (Why?)
Korean (Why?)
Swedish (Why?)
Other (What is it?)

Please remember to be considerate of other members when posting your opinions and replies. Thanks!

Discussion is locked

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Poll: What nationality's carmakers build the better car?
Jun 27, 2007 8:19AM PDT

Hi Lee,

This poll has been very interesting to follow. I read replies about unions, managment, politics, economy, and other less rational reasons and wherefores. If I may, here's my 2 cents.

The Japanese do build the "best" people movers in the world right now. "Best Car" is almost impossible to define. I have owned, sold, and worked on cars from almost all arenas, except the ex-Communist block, though I did ride in a Skoda once (an experience to say the least). From my perspective here's what I see:

American - Up until the Japanese auto invasion, American companies bascially competed with each other. There was no reason to be truly inovative, as people wanted style and comfort and Americans were happy up through the early '70's. Then a strange thing happened, the Arab oil embargo and gas prices increased. Yes, American manufactures responded with the Pinto, Vega, Rambler and the like. Cheap, frugal, cheap, frugal.....Yet the manufacturing processes were the same: The sales force goes to engineering and says "build us a car with 4 tires, 2 to 4 doors with automatic that gets 25 MPG". The bean counters have their say on the cost of production, and off to the production line. Invaribly, the car wouldn't be right and a recall would be made to fix what should have been fixed before it was built. This started in earnest in the 70's and hasn't quit yet.

Japenese - these guys build the best "Little American Cars" in the world. They follow the same track as American manufactures up to the point of the pieces that go into the car. Once the car is "spec'd" the engineers take the car apart and "spec" every nut and bolt that goes into the vehicle. The thought process is, if all the pieces work, then the end product will work too. Guess what, they were right. That's the reason American car recalls out number the Japanese recalls by a fair margin. Their cars are very appliance like; whereby they start, run, are in general frugal, and run reliabily for quite a long time. The cars, in general have little character or "soul". Most have little sporting nature, unless it's a specialty car like a Miata, or 350Z. The people who buy them, Mr. and Mrs. Average driver, don't mind a bit. It gets them where they want to go with very little fuss or bother.

Italians - THE exotic capital of the world. Their technology matches anyone in the world, including Japan. Yes, I remember the old Fiats - break or rust, but usually both at the same time. You had to "care for" these little guys. Nothing the average American wants to do. We'll get a chance to see how far they've come, as Alfa will return to the US in '08 or '09. Ferraris and Lambroghini today are reliable and usable vehicles. Ferrari started making street friendly cars in the mid-90's starting with the F355. Audi bought Lambroghini around the turn of the century and they have improved greatly with this partnership. The old Countages would break sitting still.

Swedes - The last Volvo to be the reliable people mover was the old 240 series discontinued in '93. Ford bought Volvo which ensured their viability going forward. But the new one's are not of the quality of their current offerings. Saabs - they're GM and haven't shown any more that the US offerings.

Koreans - these guys are coming on strong. they've copied the Japanese (which isn't a bad thing at all) and are able to offer a quality "people mover" for less as their labor costs are less than the Japanese.

Germans - Up until 1995 both Porsche and Mercedes Benz made some of the best vehicles in the world, bar none. But starting in 1996, there was a change in manufacturing philosophy, where volume and Duetch Marks were more important than the product's quality. Both Porsche and M-B suffered through a decade of low quality. One of the reasons why Lexus and Infinity have made such in-roads into previously controlled markets that Benz controlled. The good news is that both of these marques have seen the falacy of their ways and have worked hard to improve quality.

British - unfortunately for them in the 60's and 70's they followed American manufacturing policy. Cute, fun, out-dated, un-reliable. BMW tried to bring Land Rover out of the dark ages, and finally gave up. Jag is owned by Ford and has benefitted or they would have been out of business years ago. VW bought Rolls with a tentative future. Bently has survived, but neither of these grand marques are much of an impact in the US market.

French - these guys don't care, and neither should anyone else.

The rest of the world doesn't impact the US market, though I saw where India has a truck they'll introduce here in the States. I doubt if their market share will be much.

So, there's my rose colored glass look at the question of who makes the best cars. What do I drive? you may ask. Well, I have an '03 Sierra Denali P/U truck with only one recall for the tailgate; and a '95 M-B E320 with 58K miles on the clock - no recalls and couldn't be happier.

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Bull's-eye, ALovitz.
Jul 1, 2007 11:02AM PDT

Your posting is exactly what I would have written given the time to do so. A quick add-on for the American manufacturers: Folks, do not be mislead when you read or hear that American cars have been improving in recent years. Not only is that not saying much, but does that mean the Japanese haven't also been improving in recent years?

One country that, as of yet, has been overlooked is China. Prepare for the Sino-Storm to flood our shores in 2008-09. There are a few companies already on the way, one which will "build" their cars in Tijuana, Mexico, to take advantage of NAFTA. (Thanks, Clinton.) The Chinese are very aggressive in the industry and are already making decent cars and will copy Korea's ability to adapt quickly to our market.

One drawback of Chinese cars is that they only come in red.

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what nationality's carmakers build the better car?
Jul 1, 2007 9:49AM PDT

Japanese like Toyota and Nissan because of durability and dependability.

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Japanese, all the way!
Jul 16, 2007 1:26AM PDT

My first car was an original Honda Civic, back in the late 70's. It lasted me 15 years. My next vehicle was a Toyota pick up truck. I had it for 20 years with 200,000 miles on it. What killed it? The gas tank rusted out and a new one couldn't be welded to the frame. I now have a Ford Escort for the past 1.5 years (it was cheap!). Been in the shop 6 times for faulty radiator, broken timing belt, broken pig tail, faulty distributor, etc.

Next car will be a Honda Fit.

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Certainly not Jeep
Jul 18, 2007 7:15AM PDT

Look at the posts in this forum from all the poor souls who have Jeeps that won't start, keep stalling, etc. The question is, would they be considered Canadian or American since Jeeps are (were) made in Canada?

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Easy, Japan
Jul 25, 2007 4:00AM PDT

Japanese carmakers took up the top 5 spots on last year's JD Power ranking for mechanical reliability. They make the most reliable cars and some of the most appealing ones (Lexus, Infiniti, Acura).

Saying Americans or Germans make a better car is just uneducated.

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AMERICAN, easy
Aug 15, 2007 3:15AM PDT

Read the MSN front page story about car reliability, see how many American brands there are tied with Japanese? Besides many "Japanese" cars are actually made in the U.S.A. Japan no longer has the lead. American cars have caught up with the quality of Japanese cars. I think Japanese car prices are going up while quality is slipping, while American car prices are better with lower prices. All in all AMERICA is the winner. German cars are also very reliable but also quite expensive. Me being American I feel alot better driving and American car.

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What's really American?
Aug 21, 2007 4:46AM PDT

There are so many "American" cars that are built in Mexico and Canada, are these really considered "American"? Many Japanese cars are completely built in the U.S., and the only Japanese componenets are the engines and transmissions that are shipped from Japan. American car companies had to get involved with the Japanese because the Japanese components are what are making the American cars reliable. But, on the other hand, I've had Japanese cars, like my old Isuzu Trooper, that got involved with GM because Isuzu didn't have V6 engines, and the Isuzu cars were simply dumping grounds for the crummy GM V6 Citation engines, transmissions and electronics...thus the Isuzu turned into a crummy American car that broke down. I have to laugh at the latest wave of American car advertising (like Saturn's) that state "Rethink American." Ha! This is just one more attempt at trying to convince the consumers to give GM yet another chance. How many years have they produced junk? And what makes them think that this year will be any different? It's not only GM. Ford and Chrysler have the same track records. My father-in-law has a Ford F-150 pickup that has had spark plugs blow out of the engine block! Thinking this was a unique circumstance I did a Web search and found that this is common. How about the great American icon of ruggedness...JEEP? Sheesh. What a pile. Read the forum here to see all the poor souls who have Jeeps that won't run. This is a tiny slice of Jeep problems. German cars have their problems too. Audi and VW are plagued by mysterious problems. I had an 2000 Passat that would just wouldn't start. I had it towed into the dealer to find that some sort of oil drain had plugged and the engine has an over-ride to prevent it from starting. After unscrewing spark plugs, the pressure build-up would vent and the engine would again start. Then, 6-months later I had BOTH catalytic converters go bad. Luckily it was under warranty. Audi had mysterious overheating problems as well as electrical problems. There isn't a perfect car made, but for the time being, I'm placing my bets on the better Japanese cars, like Honda, Acura, Lexus, etc.

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well said
Aug 22, 2007 2:25AM PDT

Well said, Dan. It is hard to gauge where your car actually comes from these days but I don't think I would buy an American car now or in the future.

Japan makes the most reliable engines and some of the best luxury cars (Lexus, Acura, Infiniti) and Germans make great driving machines with mediocre reliability in the engines. American cars don't do performance well and they can't seem to master reliability.

Hell even Hyundai has surpassed American car makers in terms of reliability.

I'm a Lexus owner and when I buy another car it will definitely be a Lexus, Acura or Infiniti. Maybe a BMW if I find a good deal.

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I'm not so sure
Aug 23, 2007 12:36AM PDT

Cadillacs aren't luxury cars? People buy De Ville's and Escalade's for no reason? The new Chevrolet Corvette can "outrun" all other cars on the road in terms of acceleration (0-60) and top speed, except about three cars. And those three cars (all of which are Italian, not Japanese) are either supercharged or turbocharged, have at least 75 more hp, and weigh less. Do you see more old GMs, Fords, German/Italian cars, or Japanese cars on the road these days? GMs, of course! Talk about reliability!

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What?
Aug 23, 2007 12:12AM PDT

Have you had any problems with GM vehicles other than disliking their commercial? I can understand the Ford's spark plugs popping out because Ford is a crappy maker of cars, but GM has not had any problems. Also, although American vehicles might be made in other countries (GM has plants in Detroit and Mexico), they are still designed in America and the quality control is monitored and maintained in the US. Do you see more old GMs, Fords, German cars, or Japanese cars on the road these days?

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old cars
Aug 23, 2007 12:34AM PDT

I see way more older Japanese cars on the roads these days than old Ford and GM cars.

Face it, Japanese automotive engineers are just more proficient at designing reliable cars. Take pickups for example. Toyota and Honda just recently got into the large pick-up market (compared to GM and Ford) and they kick GM and Ford's butts in mechanical reliability. That just speaks volumes on how terrible American cars are these days. Two companies that have been making large size pickups for decades gets tromped by Toyota and Honda that were new to making that class of truck.

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old cars
Aug 24, 2007 1:56AM PDT

No way. Japanese cars are the everyday cheapies that try to look high performance. What is one model of an old Japanese car you see on the road today? I got a few for GM: the Chevy vans (10, 20, and 30 models), the old pickups (models from the 40's occasionaly seen), and old Corvettes. Mechanics? Come on, be realistic! You really think you can fit a good-quality high performance engine under those little Japanese hoods?

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Re: What
Aug 23, 2007 5:12AM PDT

First off, the reason we all see more American cars on the road isn't because they outlast the Japanses, it's simply because there are many more of them on the road. Quality has nothing to do with this. I've had many Japanese vehicles for 6+ years and for well over 100K miles with no issues other than what is normally expected to be replaced with so many miles. But, no unexplained expensive repairs. I had a Camaro that started burning oil at 50K miles. I changed the oil every 3K miles and I keep my cars in meticulous condition. Another Camaro had front windows that never closed tighlty (bought new) and the dealer explained "That's the way they are. We can shim the windows but they be loose on the other side." I had an Isuzu Trooper that was very reliable...except for the GM components they put in it: Engine, Transmission, steering, engine computer. I had the car towed into the dealer about a dozen times because it wouldn't start. I brought my keys back to the dealer and got a new Trooper. It started, but the transmission would blow fluid out and create a white smoke wall. This was common in the GM V6 models. They fixed it by putting in a longer tranny dip stick. Didn't solve the problem. Then the torque converter died. Under warranty they replaced it with a Japanese torque converter. That worked great and I sold it the next day and bought a used '90 Toyota 4-Runner. I had that for 6 years. Not one problem, ever. The GM commercials bother me only because I've had several GM cars over the years with horrible luck. I joke about their commercials because they are saying "Trust us now. Our cars are better than the ones we sold last year." Yeah, right. By the way, I had many Chrysler and Jeep cars, and all were rolling junk piles. The joke about Jaguar cars "You need to own two...one to drive while the other is in the shop" applied to these crummy cars. I'm making my statements based on 40 years of car ownership, most of which were spent owning American cars. It wasn't until the last 17 that I owned Japanese cars. Other people may have the opposite experiences that I've had, but based on my family and friend's experiences, they've had similar ones as I have.

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which one
Aug 22, 2007 8:49AM PDT

none.

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(NT) Japaneese
Feb 3, 2008 3:50AM PST