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General discussion

Poll: What nationality's carmakers build the better car?

Jun 20, 2007 8:25AM PDT

For the average consumer, what nationality's carmakers build the better car?

American (Why?)
British (Why?)
Chinese (Why?)
French (Why?)
German (Why?)
Italian (Why?)
Japanese (Why?)
Korean (Why?)
Swedish (Why?)
Other (What is it?)

Please remember to be considerate of other members when posting your opinions and replies. Thanks!

Discussion is locked

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Re: America
Jun 21, 2007 9:37AM PDT

Heartland schmartland. Quality is what counts.
Consider this:
My first car was a Nissan Sentra. I had it over 82,000 miles with only one problem - a leaky radiator. This car still had much life left in it when I traded it in.

Next was a Saturn Wagon. Two recalls and a few stops in the shop to fix problems such as a horn that didn't work, a faulty sensor, and a motor mount that gave out after about 70,000 miles. I owned it until it started needing major repairs, but I did get 139,000 miles out of it.
This was supposed to be the high quality American car, and it was good, but the Nissan was better in quality.

Then came another Saturn Wagon. Three recalls, and trips to the shop to fix a broken latch on the cargo floor, a piece on the front passenger door, and the electrical system(twice). These were minor problems, but it showed that there was some sloppiness in workmanship.
I had the car for 96,000 miles.

Now I have a Toyota Highlander. I have yet to take it into the shop for repairs after two years and 35,000 miles. This car feels solid and has a quality feel to it.

The Saturns had already visited the shop for repairs by two years and 35,000 miles. My experience indicates that the Japanese car makers pay more attention to quality than the American counterparts.

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One More...
Aug 19, 2007 3:44AM PDT

Oh, wait... I forgot one: an '87 2-door Caprice that has 210,000 miles on it and had popped a tire, had regular oil changes, and the computer failed only once (but the car could still run)! WOW!!! 96,000 miles... that's incredible... give me a break! A car better last 100,000 miles!

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Good!
Aug 19, 2007 3:41AM PDT

Someone (you) finally has things understood!

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please move there and eat rice
Jun 22, 2007 10:48PM PDT

please move there and eat rice

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British!
Jun 20, 2007 1:25PM PDT

Two words: LAND ROVER.

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You must be joking!
Jun 20, 2007 2:31PM PDT

Owned a Discovery, an ex-girlfriend a Range. Both rubish, lots of electrical problems! British car industry is dead and died with TVR mate!

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British
Jun 20, 2007 5:01PM PDT

.....Land Rover....I use to own dealerships that sold them....They are useless now. The R/R is far to expensive and why do you think that Nissan/Toyota 4x4 are all you see nowadays in the Middle east...The British car industry died along with Morris, Triumph, Riley. The only one to survive is Morgan...The reason?...They didn't pander to the whims of footballers/media personalities.

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Land Rover?
Jun 20, 2007 5:21PM PDT

You must be joking. They are one of the vehicles
most likely to be in the shop.

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Thanks
Aug 19, 2007 3:47AM PDT

Thank You!

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A few words...
Aug 19, 2007 3:46AM PDT

hunk-of-junk... owned by Ford ("Found On Road Dead" or "Fix Or Repair Daily")!

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Japanese
Jun 20, 2007 1:35PM PDT

One word, Toyota

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Definately Japanese
Jun 20, 2007 1:45PM PDT

The Japanese make quality cars that are also not too pricy. They make effecient cars that make a lot out of not much. (typically Japanese right there)The Civic, ... nice


PS: i do have to admit that the Golf is pretty sweet at liek 16 000. Yet **** have the yaris(echo of the future) for liek 13 keys.

1-Japan
2-Germany
3- Korea (THE ACCENT, THE ELANTRA, THE SONATA all great deals)5 year waranty, accent for under 15 000, )
4-Italy (not for average consumer, more like rich man)
5- China... When those new chinese super production made cars will come out, it will be the''first car'' it would sell under the price of a used one, but would be new.

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American
Jun 20, 2007 7:02PM PDT

One word, "loyalty"

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yeah you tell em
Jun 21, 2007 12:24AM PDT

that's right, I mean come on "Model T"

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one word, 3 syllables...
Jun 21, 2007 4:07AM PDT

FERRARI

here's another word, 4 syllables...

LAMBORGHINI

If we're talking about the best cars, it makes sense to mention the names of the very best cars.

Not to say that Japanese cars aren't well built, they are and they certainly excel in areas like fuel efficiency, pollution control, etc.

However, I seem to notice that Japanese, Korean built vehicles don't stand up too well to cold canadian winter climates and salty roads. Lots of body rust on newer japanese vehicles that are maybe 2-3 years old, their heating systems usually suck and on cool nights (not necessarily frozen nights), problems with condensation on the interior of the windshield of most japanese imports leads me to believe they don't perform any research & development in a colder climate.
Domestic vehicles (chrysler, ford, gm, etc.) don't have these problems, I have seen domestic cars that are more than 10 years old without rust that operate in our climate, I could never say the same about a japanese car.


Just my 0.02 cents, feel free to agree/disagree.

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best cars
Jan 8, 2008 11:25AM PST

Ferrari??? Lamborghini???
must be out of your mind!!! However I'm Canadian as well and I absolutely agree with you on the dismal state of most import vehicules after a few years on our roads.I happen to be an alignment specialist so I get to see the underbodies on thousands of cars a year.I have to say that as far as the quality of steel is concerned G.M and ford are of the highest grade,chrysler however is just terrible as far as corrosion resistance.As for the "****" imports ... they are terribly lacking,and absolutly require annual rust proofing to keep from falling apart.

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Toyotas aren't really that reliable
Jun 21, 2007 5:10AM PDT

The reason why Toyotas are so reliable is because they have no engine. If they had an engine they'd be quite unreliable. Even the new camry has a like 230 hp engine but it was rated BELOW AVERAGE! (by Consumer Reports).
Toyotas are about as reliable and as fun as a wooden chair.

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Pick one...
Jun 25, 2007 5:31AM PDT

Either give some stupid reason, explaining why they are reliable, but they are bad anyway OR say that they are not reliable. Doing both just makes you sound stupid. And since your on CNET anyway read some of the reviews on the 2007 Camry. Yeah theres a car thats lacking power.

And if your going to credit consumer reports like you have actually read them maybe you shouldn't be trying to make a point that Toyotas are unreliable. They are the most reliable manufacturer between the covers.

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They are reliable.
Jul 22, 2007 5:12PM PDT

But I do find them horribly boring. If that doesn't matter to you, and reliable is the key for you, then buy a Toy, it's the best choice.

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Japanese!!!
Jun 20, 2007 1:39PM PDT

The fact the Japanese make a better quality, more cost efficient car, is no secret. And the reason is just as simple. Instead of trying to cram a white elephant down our throat like the American car companies, they actually listened to the consumer and are giving him what he is asking for. Detroit is still turning out big gas guzzling SUVs at a time when the consumer is asking for a more cost efficient vehicle. Toyota already has 2 hybrid cars on the market that are moving off the new car lots faster than they can turn them out. There is NO reason the Americans couldn't do this too. When will they ever learn.

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Japanese are simply the best....
Jun 20, 2007 1:39PM PDT

In recent years, I've owned the following:
Buick Century 2000...good basic car.
Volvo XC90... a true piece of junk; would never buy another
Audi A6...very fast, very cool. Not the most reliable, and very expensive to fix.
Ford F-250...American muscle. Good for towing. A one dimension vehicle.
Saab 93 convertible...very cool, very fast, very fun. Like the Audi, not so reliable.
Toyota Camry Hybrid...basic car, but exceedingly reliable, it is my favorite car. Everything works, and it works very well. It is the best car I have ever had. If you don't buy a Japanese car, explain to yourself why you didn't when you have a big repair bill.

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The full questions was...
Jun 20, 2007 1:39PM PDT

"For the average consumer, what nationality's carmakers build the better car?".

Sheesh, much as a gearhead like me likes Land Rovers & the feel of a Quattro or M5, give me a break. The average consumer wants a car that is affordable & reliable. No one ever claimed that modern Land Rovers are reliable & no one in their right mind would call an Audi affordable - either to buy or even more to repair every other week. Even VW's constantly have little stuff breaking after 3-4 years.

I hate to say it, but the only choice for Joe Consumer is Japanese. Drive a Corolla or Toyota Pickup for 300,000, a Maxima for 250,000 & similar with Hondas.

The Americans are beginning to get that the Q word is important - I just hope it's not too late.

My 2 cents. Always humble of course...Wink

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There not better just a different pile
Jun 21, 2007 5:00AM PDT

the only answer is japanese. HMMMM

So how come my sunbird has 490,000 km's on it and still runs perfect. Or my 96 Sunfire has 300,000Km's and still on the road.

Oh wait we also have some plymouth voyagers with 400,000 km's that we beat the snot out of and they still run.

Plus they get awsome mileage. Wow you people will believe anything. The imports are using marketing techniques to make you think there better. When in reality they are not.

I know because I worked at a import plant. There made out of the same stuff.

the only reason why they might get better mileage is cause they put a realy small engine into them.

but strange there trucks dont get better gas mileage than americans.
And what about the corvette 30mpg with 505 HP. Now that is impressive.

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Thats right
Jun 25, 2007 5:37AM PDT

Thats why the engineers wear $5,000 suits and you put the pieces together in a factory. Who are the ones we are replacing with machines? Yeah love the people with their stories of 200,000 mi American cars, all I know if that I have never seen a Toyota need $3,500 worth of repairs at 65,000 miles, but I have with a Mercury.

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Beats me.
Jul 22, 2007 5:48PM PDT

I saw a Buick for sale that had 280K miles on it. 3800 V6 is a good engine. As for me, my Lumina with the 3.1L V6 went 180K miles before I get rid of her.

It's difficult these days to tell what is an import and what is a domestic. (in my view) I noticed it after working at the Cadillac dealership. Two Caddys come in for repair. Both need the same part, an alternator. One caddy comes up $1200, the other comes up $300. What's the difference?

The Catera is actually an Opal Germany built car. The alternator is imported at around $1000 per unit, $200 to install on the import motor. The Fleetwood has a Chevy 350 running it. Alternator is $150 at most, and easier to install.

Point is, you can't really say that domestic manufacturers make domestic cars, or the import manufacturers make import cars (read Honda).

Ultimately I think American autos will fail.

Japanese autos have a huge advantage, in that the people of Japan and Japanese government sees auto makers as a benefit. They actually support the companies who provide jobs and income to the country at large.

In America, we see the evil companies as greedy blood sucking, money grabbing infections that hold down the working man. We tend to beat the crap out of auto makers with regulations, taxes, unions, and demands, that they invest in expensive projects ($400 million lost on the EV1 project) while we pass capital gains taxes and tariffs on exports.

There is simply no way American companies can fend off government supported imports, while having the crap beaten out of them, by their home team at the same time. Just look at the "Who killed the Electric Car?" film. Note how *all* the manufactures canceled their EVs, yet who is smacked and beaten repeatedly about it? GM. Domestic Autos will fail, millions will go unemployed, and it will be the publics fault. At this rate, it would take a miracle to change the direction of things.

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For the average consumer clearly Japan
Jun 20, 2007 1:41PM PDT

The key part of the question to me is "for the average consumer". If you are talking about luxury cars, pricey German, Italian and British cars still manage to top the Japanese, in overall appeal and price tag, not necessarily quality. Clearly however, the Japanese have the average automotive market cornered due to time tested reliability and quality that comes from great design and manufacturing. I have two words to sum that up: Toyota Camry.

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Toyota
Jun 20, 2007 1:58PM PDT

TOYOTA! TOYOTA. If you have doubts. ask a toyota owner. I'm 60yrs old ,. this is the first car I ever owned ; where a complete stranger walked out of his way to say "You're gonna love this car" Incredible.

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land rover?? You have GOT to be kidding!!!
Jun 20, 2007 6:00PM PDT

Sure it looks...umm, er, ah, top-heavy. You think it's noble, upright. Not when it's upside down or disabled, which they tend to do. How come do you think the company stop making/calling it by the same name? They have got to be the WORSE vehicle out there, especially when you consider unsuspecting people think they're good. Objective sources list them to be the lowest in reliability - duh! One changed my life when a fully loaded one, that had a bunch of my friends, had to be towed back to Denver from Durango, one hell of a long distance (!) to be brought back to working (barely again). What a drag it was for ALL of these friends of mine, let alone the owner. In little Boulder where I live, they have their own shop because of all the repairs for land rover (no caps 'cuz IT doesn't deserve it!). They cost TOO much besides!! European cars/etc. may look cool & even drive to some people's liking, but they are way too expensive to purchase, break down excessively, & consume big gas (except for the small ones that the smart Europeans drive that get better gas mileage. So if your ego needs one, good luck. Again, buy an American made car labeled Japanese (or even Korean!), but do your homework to get the right one of these. Oh, & stay away from (most) so called "American" cars, like G.M. (General Motors) & Chrysler Corp. These are not really cars so much as Corporate profits, just like "food" isn't food anymore, but "corporate profits". Thanks capitalism! You'll save the world. We're under it's influence just as we were under the influence of the "Church" in like 1300! But don't feel bad or special because institutions "suck" all over the world.

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all baloney
Jun 20, 2007 10:56PM PDT

what a bunch of baloney !

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Japanese
Jun 20, 2007 2:01PM PDT

Innovative, comfortable, safe, reliable, and good value.