Poll: If you had one choice, which format would you pick?

Paul, you've made some very noteworthy points in your post.

Unfortunately, the public is being manipulated by a consortium of big businesses (on either side), and the net result is that, since they're spending a ton of money in this battle, the HD format war will not be over any time soon.
There are many who naively say "let the cheaper cost format win"; if the HD-DVD format wins, we, the consumers will not benefit (for some of the reasons you cited) because the price difference TODAY is not going to matter that much in the LONG TERM; if people could only understand this point, then what would be their rationale for choosing HD-DVD? I believe the case ?for HD-DVD? vanishes really fast!

Then there are the "Sony Haters" and those who don't like Sony products because they're generally higher priced; but there's overwhelming evidence that Sony products represent higher quality engineering; you want examples? HDTVs, DVD players; game consoles; the list goes on. On the subject of ?quality?, let?s use the example of cars. If you want a Ford, buy it. If you want a Mercedes or a Lexus, buy it.
The fact that Sony invented BD format shouldn't be relevant, either; the BD technology can be licensed to other BD manufacturers, and BD players can be offered to the general public in a wide price range, where the cheapest has few ?feature-rich? offerings while the most expensive has a ton of them.

In brief, we, the consumer, will "lose" if HD-DVD is adopted.

Come you Sony haters. You complain about Sony but what about Microsoft??

I am not a "Sony Hater", like quite a number of ppl on this thread. In my post, I attempted to present only factual info. If a company makes a good product, it's up to us, as consumers to "vote with our wallets". I, for one, appreciate the quality engineering that goes into some consumer electronics products, and am willing to pay a higher price for it. I'm very much in favor of getting my money's worth; so if, after detailed comparisons, I believe I can find an equivalent quality product on that market that's cheaper than the Sony, yes, I'll buy it.

I have no love for Microsoft (M$). I do not care for this company, and for a variety of very legitimate reasons, some of which go back 20 years in time. In brief, M$ business practices are unethical, IMO; I can provide a ton of facts to support this statement, if you wish.

I was just using your points about engineering and Sony haters to move this discussion over to Microsoft who is just as arrogant as Sony and they are backing HD-DVD. So why back HD-DVD based on hating Sony? Why not use the best tech that many HD-DVD fans seem willing to acknowlege belongs to Blu-Ray? Microsoft sucks but I still use their stuff sometimes but I do own a Mac also.

The best Tech is NOT Blu-Ray! Who says that, Blu-Ray fanboys? The ONLY thing Blu-Ray has over HD DVD is that extra 20 gig's of space that doesn't seem to matter at all for HD movies!

If you call Double the Copy protection, Region Encoding, and not even a finished format a GOOD thing, then I guess Blu-Ray is for you as HD DVD has NONE OF THAT!!!

Many supposedly Blu-Ray only Releases also happen to be released on HD DVD also, just not in the US. But thanks to the lack of Region Encoding of HD DVD, we have access to a far greater amount of movies. Almost ALL of the Movie Studio's that support Blu-Ray are SONY OWNED!!! MS owns NO Movie Studio's, and neither does Toshiba.

Sony wants people to move away from DVD which is easily copied, and HD DVD isn't much better, but that Double Copy protection is what Sony likes. Not to mention things like being able to Disable your Blu-Ray drive once it's been hacked! All part of the BD+ specs that aren't being used YET because Blu-Ray hasn't even been FINALIZED yet. It was rushed out into the marketplace before it was ready. Why? Because the PS3 was already going to be released 6 months late, and they should couldn't wait until October 2007 when it's supposedly going to be finalized as it would have been to late. The War would have been over before it begun.

Movies released on both formats now, many of them on HD DVD have extra content. Blu-Ray doesn't look or sound any better then HD DVD, in fact Blu-Ray only recently caught up to the Quality of HD DVD. Still the Video transfer rate of each format is the SAME, and even if you didn't compress Blu-Ray as much, it doesn't help any as it can only stream so fast anyway. There's more then enough Room for a HD Movie on a 30 gig HD DVD Disc. Even with a bunch of extra content!

Your NOT going to see any Blu-Ray movie using larger then a Double Layer 50 gig disc. That's the limit for Blu-Ray Movies, just like 30 Gig's is for HD DVD. Sure you'll see larger sizes for Blu-Ray being used on Computers some time in the future.

HD DVD now has even better Studio Support. HD DVD now has a even better Movie listing to come out. Add to that the So called Blu-Ray only movies, that you can buy NOW on HD DVD, and Blu-Ray is a goner, and the sooner the better before they both die from everyone waiting to see who wins. Don't need another Sony screw over like SACD Vs. DVD Audio. Instead of having High Quality Audio with 1 format being released, Sony had to once again have their own SACD, and pretty much killed both formats to low quality MP3's and IPODs.

Do I really need to get into the whole VHS Vs. Betamax, or Memory Stick Vs. Compact Flash and the other standards? UMD and MD Discs? How about the CD DRM garbage, or the Fake Movie Critic, Nice BIG fine for that one.

MS has a small part of this. MS Video Codex VC-1 is used on BOTH HD DVD and Blu-Ray. MS also doesn't like the double Copy protection of Blu-Ray. MS wants HD Movie servers using of course MS software. It's going to be pretty hard to rip a BD+ Blu-Ray movie to put on your Media server. MS also already has HD Movie downloads though LIVE which is the future anyway. This isn't a SONY Vs. MS thing, this is Blu-Ray Vs. HD DVD. I Prefer HD DVD for many Reasons.
#1 It's a Finished Standard!
#2 It has extra features that Blu-Ray doesn't do yet until it's finalized in October 2007.
#3 A Ethernet port is required on ALL HD DVD players, and is only a Option even after Blu-Ray has been finalized.
#4 It has NO Region Encoding. You can buy a HD DVD disc anywhere in the world and it'll play on a US player for example
#5 Doesn't have Double the Copy protection that Blu-Ray has.
#6 HD DVD was Developed by the SAME group who did DVD!
#7 HD DVD is CHEAPER
#8 More and better movies on HD DVD, when you add in all the Blu-Ray Movies you can get in HD DVD from out of the US!

The ONLY downside with HD DVD is it lacks the extra 20 gig's of space. Which so far hasn't mattered, even with all the extra content. So it's not really a big deal at all.

Yep! You are absolutely correct. Both firms are arrogant; the difference is that M$ is highly unethical, based on their history.

For many years, I've been forced to use M$ operating systems and apps software because my clients used it... but now, the "tide is turning", and PC owners have every reason to switch to the new iMac (as you well know). I just ordered some high end iMacs for my office (won't be shipped until late Sep though).

I'm just sick and tired of paying M$ twice over and thrice over, for the same products that my other PCs already have; and the worst part of it all is that M$ products aren't even "high quality".

Regarding JB Dragon's post on HD-DVD and BD advantages, he's so far off the mark that it's not even worthy of a response.

You hit the nail on the head about M$.

In the Dragon post I like how he called blu-Ray dead yet they are selling 2-1 in sales.

Santucci Quote: "To my understanding, Blu-Ray discs have a higher storage capacity, but they don't use it for video. HD DVD actually puts out higher resolution, which is why Paramount kicked Blu-Ray to the curb."

Big Businesses are manipulating the general public into believing this; if you wish to believe it, be my guest.

Where did you get that info?? I think you are wrong. Can you post a link so I can read up on that? I like Blu-Ray too but I doubt what you are saying about HD-DVD.

Essentially, both formats use 405mm wavelength (e.g. blue / violet) laser technology. The difference is that Blu Ray uses a much tighter track and pitch; the net result is that the theoretical limit for Blu Ray is about 200 gig, while that for HD-DVD is about 50 to 60 gig.

This difference may not mean much to the layperson, but to someone like Steven Spielberg who wants to make a ton of special effects in his Hi Def movies, it's extremely important.

After reading all eleven pages of this thread, I am deeply concerned about the knowledge the general public posseses about the next-generation formats. It i very frustrating to see someone write "HD DVD is just a regular DVD spun faster to get a better picture".

Furthermore I would like to address the issues that may not have been brought up quite yet. With any HD DVD device (laptop, PC, stand-alone, or attachment), hitting th stop button will not allow the disc to resume back to the point where it had been stopped. It must start from the beginning (see S&V's review of the HD-XA1, XA-2). I have been able to do this since VHS, why should I be losing this valuable feature? Many BD players have 400-disc memory fetaures that would allow me to put in 400 different discs, play them to unique points, stop them, and, withou fault, retur to the first disc and start playing from where I have stopped.

I would like to take this time to address Sony and Microsoft as well. Sony and Microsoft are both bi companies with even bigger ambitions. That being said, I do not endorse bribery or screwing the costumer with ultimately poprietary modes (like Bose systems). Microsoft is our briber, and Sony is the proprieter. This would make (in my eyes) both companies fairly unethical and I wouldn't like to buy from them. I feel as though it sometimes cannot be helped, though, as Microsoft is Windows which is used by 90% of the population today, and Sony invented the compact disc, you know, that thing that started this mess. That wasn't exactly proprietary, was it? Technically, Sony reaps any time a CD is made and sold. I don't think one would simply stop buying CD's becuase it was a Sony creation.

Now, it's down to the technical white papers (which, because I am the geek I am, have downloaded and printed the latest versions of BD and HD DVD and have them at hand for today's comparison).
BluRay does support higher transfer rates than HD DVD. 48Mbit/s sounds way better than 30Mbit/s. Also, max bitrate for video+audio is on the side of BD as well: 48Mbps vs 30.24Mbps. And again for just video (40Mbps BD, 29.4Mbps HD DVD). This will allow for a faster transfer of higher quality video that shows itself. Naturally, the numeracle aperature beats that of HD DVD.

I myself am a quality man. I take pride in things I do. Electronics is what I do. I have a small sound and video setup at home that would make a fool of other setups, and frankly, my current disc player (Classe CDP-501) will knock out any HD DVD or BD player in terms of picture and sound quality. This would be why I currently do not own a next generation player. Cost means nothing to me, even though I am of extremely limited means. In general, one gets what one pays for anyway, so I don't know what all the fuss is over pricing.

But here is what I do know:
1) Because of BD's higher storage capacity, one will be able to store more HD content on a single disc, necessitating less discs for series productions, or simply long movies. This alone necessitates less cost to the customer. This is loically and technically undeniable.
2) Because of BS's higher transfer rate, discs will come off the line faster, and there will be no problems with delayed releases due to that, whilst with HD DVD lagging behind, there might be.
3) There is simply a greater poduct selection for BD. So what if you don't like Sony or Microsoft? BD offers products from exotic brands like The B&W Group and Elite, wile maintaining practical brands such as Samsung and Panasonic. The consumer has more choices. This is also undeniable.
4) With higher potential bitrates and BD's support of DTS-HD master, HD DVD doesn't stand a chance via sound. HD DVD can only support DTS-HD high resolution audio which is about half the information of DTS-HD master, plus BD supports uncompressed PCM, which, when recorded and mastered correctly, will provide superior sound to the above mentioned formats.
5) Think of it this way: if somebody were a videophile, they would be the utmost in demanding picture quality. Is every consumer a videophile? No. Would a standard progressive-scanning DVD player work in 90% of cases for that average consumer? Probably, unless that partciular consumer has a good eye. With the right interconnects, power solution, processors and filters a standard DVD player with progressive scan could outbeat some of the highest performing HD DVD or BD players currently available. I was at a Best Buy the other day and saw a Samsung BD-P1200 and BD-P1400 hooked up to the same calibrated Panasonic TH-50PZ700U. I threw in a standard DVD: U571. There was an unbelieveable amount of noise, grain, and other artifacts on the screen when the player attempted to upconvert the picture, I had to walk away. I had the associate hook up the Toshiba HD-A30 to that very screen (with the same settings, of course). The upconversion was also horrible, this time with a few more grains and more mosquito noise on the screen then one would see in a hi-def broadcast. I then took it to my own accord to see what a standard progressive scan DVD player would do. Surprisingly, a $60 Sony DVP-NS57Pb looked about twice as good as the A30, with zero mosquito noise and less jaggies. The test was done with Analysis-Plus cables and a Monster Power HTS-1600 power line conditioner with some sort of APC battery backup. That being said, a BD or HD DVD in the respective players looked way better than the Sony, as they were made to. I have over 200 DVD's in my collection, 20 of them are mastered in HD 10 are Superbit. I wouldn't want crappy playback on the other 170 DVD's I currently own.

Currently, I suppose I will stick with my current machine. If HD DVD or BD turns out a player that is anywhere near the quality of my player now, I might consider purchasing. I will not rule out HD DVD, but if I had to choose now, it would definitely be BD for quality in sound and picture, playback time, and corporate support. For those of you who would like a better picture than DVD, why cheap out with HD DVD, when noticably better picture quality is with BD (in the automotive industry, DVD would be Hyundai, HD DVD would be BMW, and BD would be Ferrari. Now, clearly the BMW outperforms a Hyundai, but is it any match to the company that invented the supercar? I don't think so. That being said, I suppose it is a bad example, because BD would not be that relatively expensive ($1,500 for an oil change is rather steep). But wait! What if i tricked out an M5 and raced it against a stock 599? With the ight mods, the M5 would win, which coming back to topic, with the right mods to the pocessors, cassis, other chipset and software, HD DVD could win. But that would probably cost about 3 times as much as the most expensive BD player currently on the market, making the major reason to go HD DVD null and void.)

Wow!

That was an awfully long and very technical discussion on the subject of Blu Ray vs. HD-DVD. While I agree with what you've said, 95% of consumers are not interested in lengthy discussions, nor are they interested in stuff that they can hardly understand.

Couldn't you easily have summarized it by stating your last paragraph? Would have saved ppl a lot of frustration!

This is a forum. If I had just said BD was better but not to buy now, I would have been just another post on the board. I tend to want to make the end-all statements so people (like myself) do not have to go through 11 whole pages of forum to see what people are thinkig these days.

Thanks for the comment, though.

-N.

I haven't checked this msg board over the last several months, but I see that it is still very much alive!

What really surprises me (given all of the HD events of the past 3 months, most notably Warner's decision to go exclusively with Blu Ray) is the ignorance of the general public.

Hopefully, CNET Readers will re-read your lengthy post and understand the points you (and I) were trying to make back in October.

R

This is just not the case at my house.I have a LG 47LC7DF 1080p native res with 8000.1 contrast ratio LCD flat screen TV.I had a RCA DVD(high end at the time about $100)player hooked up with component cables.It had a pretty good picture,some noise but LG can reduce a lot of noise with their XD engine and playing with contrast and such.I went to best buy and bought a Toshiba sd-6000 upconvert player.It was nice but I to have about 150 SD DVD's ,most are copys with anydvd and clonedvd2.Sometimes there was noise I could not live with.I took this player back and went with a Pioneer upconvert($100)and it was worse on my TV.The HD-A30 was on sale for $199.99 and I just got $40.00 worth of Best Buy Rewards Zone coupons and the $100 I all ready had invested in the Pioneer(only had it 2 days)with the remainder to get the HD-A30.When I opened the box I got 2 movies,but I went straight for my collection.I put in a "copy" of Resident Evil Extinction and I could barely tell the difference between the HD Bourne Identity that came with the player.The sound is way better on HD because I have a onkyo that can decode trueHD.I am saying that the upconverting on this particular player is great to me and my set up.I also have a Sony that I hooked up to and still have it hooked up for mp3's and divx.I also have PS3 and still think I get the best from this player.I have never even tried the Xbox 360 for playing a movie(I have it too)I heard it upconverts.Not sure.