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Poll: Are you still using Windows XP today?

by Lee Koo (ADMIN) CNET staff/forum admin / August 15, 2014 10:27 AM PDT
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by James Denison / August 15, 2014 10:41 AM PDT

Haven't we already killed this subject recently? No, not using XP, moved to Mint Linux 14, then 16, then 17.

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I have XP mode, but haven't used it since April
by wpgwpg / August 15, 2014 10:41 AM PDT

I have every reason to avoid XP and no reason to use it. It's obsolete and unsupported. Time to get rid of buggy whips, 8 track tapes, and XP and move on.

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Linux instead of Windows anything
by cybercowboyjim / August 15, 2014 11:16 AM PDT

I got tired of all the hoops Microsoft puts us through. Next they will stop support for Windows 7. Linux Mint 17 is a good start on older equipment. I use Ubuntu 14.04. Also used Fedora 20. They are all good.

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by btljooz / August 15, 2014 1:43 PM PDT

Extended Support for Windows 7 is not scheduled [at this time] to end until 2020. See for yourself:

But, it's still a good thing that you already have your Migration to the Penguin complete! Grin If you haven't heard about PCLinuxOS you may want to download the ISO, make a live CD of it and play around with it a bit. Wink

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Just out of curiosity
by Jimmy Greystone / August 16, 2014 5:31 AM PDT

Just out of curiosity, isn't Microsoft (or any commercial company) allowed to decide when they will stop supporting some product of theirs? Unlike Apple, Microsoft has laid out a very clear timetable for every single one of its operating systems and even other products like MS Office. This information is usually released even before the software itself, so they are being remarkably up front about it. Again, compared to Apple which just never bothers to tell anyone when it stops releasing updates for an OS, Microsoft is being amazingly transparent about the process.

The same thing happens in the Linux world. Is RedHat still providing updates for say RedHat Linux 6.0? Are there still new versions of the 2.0.x kernel being released? How about KDE 1.x or GNOME 1.x? How long since there was a new version of those?

If you create a bit of software, are you not allowed then to decide that you no longer want to spend your time fixing bugs with it? Do you owe anyone an explanation as to why? Maybe if you were charging people money for it, but then we look at Microsoft and they have the information on their website for all to see, laying exactly when you can expect them to stop supporting the software and make a decision accordingly. And if you very clearly tell everyone that after a specific date you're done, haven't you made all reasonable efforts to responsibly wind things down?

Considering Microsoft makes most of its money by selling new copies of Windows and Office, and they are a for-profit company which is kind of the whole point in a capitalist economy, how exactly is that supposed to work if they are expected to maintain old versions of software indefinitely? Some crackpot out there might be really attached to Windows 1.0, so should Microsoft be expected to keep putting out updates for that? Where exactly does the line get drawn?

I'm hardly some libertarian nut who wants to give businesses free reign to do anything and trust that the market will somehow correct for things, because I know that history has shown that what actually happens is you get a monopoly in the major markets, or an oligarchy if you're lucky. I'm also far from a let's give businesses an interest free (inflation) loan at taxpayer expense (aka a tax break/incentive) conservative. I also tend not to like the hit to my personal wallet when I have to shell out for a new version of Windows, I just choose not to whine about it or act all smug and sanctimonious because I installed Linux. Installing Linux today is hardly an accomplishment; all the actual work has been taken out of it by distribution developers. Get back to me when you can install a distribution circa 1995 and use FVWM for a while. None of this sissy KDE, GNOME or even LXDE garbage. If the average Linux user of today can manage that, I'll be a little more impressed. But I digress...

I'm hardly what anyone would call pro-business, and would even say that since Microsoft has a monopoly on the operating system market, which is kind of vital to everything else working with a computer, they should have some additional rules to follow. However, I'd say they meet the definition of reasonableness by the average person. Every version of Windows gets roughly 10 years of support from Microsoft. That's more than even Linux where "long-term support" is generally defined as 5 years. In at least three separate instances, with NT4, Windows 2000 and XP, Microsoft actually extended the support period even longer than they initially promised and swallowed the rather considerable expense that is associated with such a move. It might seem appealing on a personal level, but when you look past your own selfish desires and consider the possibility of requiring companies to support every single product they've ever made, in perpetuity, you realize that it's simply not feasible. Microsoft provides an orderly transition process, with a clearly defined time table, unlike companies such as Apple as one example. If for whatever reason -- laziness, greed, ignorance, etc -- people don't make plans for the future I have a hard time bringing myself to feel sorry for them. Linux is no better, in fact, it's objectively worse when LTS distributions are only supported for about half the duration as any single version of Windows and there's only ever one LTS version of any distribution active at any given time. Microsoft has 4 -- Vista, Windows 7, Windows 8, and Windows 8.1 -- going concurrently. Yes, Linux distributions are operating on a significantly lower budget, but they're also benefiting from the volunteered time and effort of hundreds of individual developers who maintain most of the individual programs for those LTS releases unlike Microsoft. All the distributions have to do is package them up for the most part and a lot of times even that is done by volunteer effort.

I really wish people would take 30 seconds or so to think these things through. The reality is far more complex than these facile platitudes being bandied about.

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And I see
by Jimmy Greystone / August 18, 2014 11:44 PM PDT
In reply to: Just out of curiosity

And I see, just as a small addendum, that the example Linux users love to hold up of the City of Munich, Germany, is already considering the move back to Windows less than a year after completing its move to Linux.

Some of that is undoubtedly politics, but most of it is just down to the cold hard realities that the licensing costs are just one small component of the overall cost of this sort of thing. Linux can be great for individuals on their own personal computers, even small companies with only a handful of employees, but in an enterprise environment it falls apart quickly.

You save say $100 on the Windows license and maybe another $200 for Office, so we'll say $300 total in license fees per system. A good chunk of that can be wiped out if you've got one highly paid employee who is less productive than they were before. LibreOffice, last I checked, still has significant issues dealing with OOXML files MS Office has been using as the default format since Office 2007. You can go off on a tangent about how OOXML is just a pathetic attempt to undermine ODF and how you can still use the old binary formats of Office 97-2003, which are valid excuses for an individual, but completely miss the point on a larger scale.

If a customer sends you a file that's a .docx format file and LibreOffice mangles the formatting, you have a couple of options. Go back to the customer and ask them to send you the file in a different format -- which they're going to think is not their responsibility and maybe they should just take their business to a competitor of yours -- or you can have someone spend however long it takes to try and reconstruct the formatting. If you go with the latter option, let's say it takes them exactly one hour to keep things simple and you pay this person $20/hr. It doesn't just cost you $20, it costs you $20, plus the revenue normally brought in by that person's normal duties in an hour... Duties they had to set aside to fix the formatting on this document. So let's say that's $100, because if you're not getting more than what you pay in salary and other expenses as an employer, what's the point? So at $120 a pop, by the third time this happens you've lost all the money you saved on license fees and then some. If you go back to customers asking them to send you files in a specific format, you'll quickly drive yourself out of business unless you are quite literally the only game in town.

You don't have to like it, but in business you just have to accept the fact that the majority of the world uses Windows and Office, so if you're going to do something different, you're going to need to invest some serious money into training people on this other software and make sure that it's compatible with what everyone else is using. When Microsoft finally drops support for the old binary Office formats, where would that leave companies depending on LibreOffice, where the OOXML support is still sketchy at best? In business, to go the open source route you'd have to be willing to wait probably several years before you see any returns on your investment. How many small businesses can afford to turn away even a single customer? We haven't even gotten to how support contracts from RedHat or the like will come out to be roughly the same as what's bundled with the more expensive versions of Microsoft software.

When you dig past the surface a little, you see that the up-front savings for Linux start to evaporate. If you can wait it out for 5-10 years you might start making some of that back, but how many companies can wait 5-10 years? How many executives will give up their performance based bonuses when they only tend to stay at any given company 2-3 years? It just proves that the people who sell this utopian vision know absolutely nothing about business.

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Wow, Jimmy..
by btljooz / August 19, 2014 3:31 AM PDT
In reply to: And I see

You just really don't know much about Linux or LibreOffice do you?

First, though, Linux isn't for the enterprise??? REALLY????? I guess you don't know of all the servers in the world that run Apache which is a Linux server distro. I guess you had better tell Yahoo to get rid of all their Apache and other Linux based servers and other computers, eh? And that's just ONE that I know of!

As far as older hardware is concerned, I have a Dell Latitude D630 that came originally loaded with Windows Vista that is running PCLinuxOS 2014 just fine! The hardware that you speak of that you are having problems with must be of Win 98se vintage. I wonder if you have tried Linux Mint or any of the three that are mentioned in the following article? I've ran Puppy Linux on a laptop that originally came loaded with Windows 98. So, what's your problem? I bet that it's nothing that your local Linux User Group can't help you with! Just do a search for " 'your town' Linux User Group" and find the one that you can go to for help in learning what you need to know. It's not that big of a deal.

As for Libre Office mangling the more advanced formats of MS Office. Well, I must admit that it does do that. But, that is because M$ is so 'proprietary' with their product and the folks who started OpenOffice and those who've carried their work with it's offshoots have had to reverse engineer MS Office to get the compatibility that there is. So blame M$ for that! And that is WHY I'm going to run the MS Office suite I ALREADY have in WINE. This way I have the best of BOTH worlds! Now, see? Isn't that simple????

So, I guess you've actually learned something new, now.;)

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by James Denison / August 19, 2014 9:42 AM PDT
In reply to: And I see

money exchanging hand there for sure! Basically MSFT bought it's way in with strong favors to wipe the 10 years of embarassment off it's face. Same approach MSFT has always used.


These views aren't held universally, with the City Council defending the "LiMux" project and suggesting that the coalition administration is using the Linux migration as a scapegoat. The Council says the use of open source software has yielded savings of more than €10 million (more than $13 million).

Karl-Heinz Schneider, head of municipal IT services, seems to endorse this view. He says it's no surprise that a new platform should temporarily generate more support requests, and he wasn't aware of any particular complaints.

Microsoft announced last year that it was moving its German headquarters to Munich. This move is planned to take place in 2016. While Reiter was involved in the deal that precipitated the move and describes himself as a "Microsoft fan," he says the criticism of LiMux is unrelated."

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7 and 8
by Cam501 / August 15, 2014 11:17 AM PDT

I'm using 7 at work on a desktop and 8 at home on a laptop. 7 is easier for me.

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Which Windows
by Thelby / August 15, 2014 1:06 PM PDT
In reply to: 7 and 8

Vista on my Entertainment PC. I have never had any problems out it, never crashed, never failed to do what I wanted. I will however, update to Windows 7 before Vista support runs out which I believe is in 2017.
Windows 7 on my 2 rendering PCs. It has worked for every program I have installed on them and some of my programs date back to the early 2000s.
I am unsure what program the user could not get to work on Windows 7, but my guess is it is just an install problem with the program he/she is using.

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No way!
by daddywalter / August 15, 2014 1:26 PM PDT

I don't always upgrade immediately when a new version of Windows comes out, but I did move from XP to Vista after Service Pack 1 came out, then to Windows 7, and currently I'm running Windows 8.1 with all the latest updates on both my Windows computers. I seriously thought about sticking with Windows 7, but since Win8.1 is much more traditionalist-friendly than the original Windows 8, I find I actually like it ... of course, I boot directly to the Desktop and use a start-button replacement, but I also get the under-the-hood improvements that are part of Windows 8.1. And every once in a (great) while I find a Metro/Modern app useful.

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Win 7
by texasdan / August 15, 2014 1:26 PM PDT

Switched from XP to Win 7 when I bought my new desktop. I don't know why some people don't like it. I find it very much like XP, and I rarely have any problems with it.

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by btljooz / August 15, 2014 1:34 PM PDT

1. My Brand NEW main computer currently has Windows 7 installed, but will soon be triple booting that with PCLinuxOS 2014 and XP. I'm planning on Win 7 being my very last MS Windoze OS if/when at all possible. I'm in the process of learning about my chosen distro of Linux and how to administrate it as efficiently as I do XP. The XP installation on this new computer will only be used for things that just can't be done any other way & that XP has always been so good at....certain games and other older/legacy software, working with music files in Win Media Player 9 or, maybe, 10 (as any WMP later than those that just don't do what they are capable of; WMP 11 is CRAPware!) and whatever other functions become necessary. XP will not be allowed on the internet since I will have Win 7 and Linux to do that with.

2. I do have a secondary computer that used to be my main computer after my main Frankomputer(XP) blew up that runs XP. I'm still using it as a backup computer to my new computer while I am getting it tweaked to a more perfect and permanent state.

3. I also have a laptop that only has PCLinuxOS 2014 on it.

~~-> So, yeh - my definite answer to the poll above is "Other".

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Yes, I am using it for my business database.
by MrGee43 / August 16, 2014 1:38 AM PDT

Since my CRM is not compatible with Windows 7, I have set up a dual boot configuration so I can still use my CRM database. My computer has 4 hard drives, containing 2 operating systems, a data storage drive & a media storage drive. Although WinXP is a little slower loading than Win7 I can switch OS within 2-4 minutes by re-booting..
This is a temporary measure, because upgrading my CRM & transferring my data is doubly expensive since the CRM is 4 versions removed from the latest version.
There are some other minor drawbacks (non-recognition of the 4th. drive in XP) but I can live with this.

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Win7, XP and Linux in use here
by Steven Haninger / August 16, 2014 5:42 AM PDT

XP still resides on a laptop used only occasionally. It has one utility that I need to help manage an older WiFi network with 8 APs. That utility doesn't work with Win7. I support 2 NAS XP embedded NAS devices that don't even do updates unless patched by the manufacturer. Each of the 3 operating system does something the others don't do...or don't do for a friendly price. I've no feeling of need move on due to panic.

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by Dcyphure / August 16, 2014 9:15 AM PDT

lol, oh lord no, I use OSX of course.

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by computerdude92 / August 18, 2014 8:17 PM PDT
In reply to: Windows?...ewww

Yes, and with no intention of upgrading soon. No other OS ever made can compare to its stability, compatibility and ease-of-use. All the other Windows OS are utter crap except for 2000. As for Linux, I've never had any lightweight distro install properly on any of my older PCs hard drives without some error. And Apple, forget them. They are proprietary and expensive garbage. Long live XP!!! You've made me a loyal costomer since 2004! Happy

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Re: stability, compatibility
by Kees_B Forum moderator / August 18, 2014 8:32 PM PDT
In reply to: XP FOREVER

Do you have statistics about the stability? Say the average number of BSOD's a month on a XP PC and the same on a Windows 7 or Windows 8.1 PC?

Compatible with what? One example: XP doesn't support higher versions of IE than IE8, so it's not compatible with the latest browser developments. Another example: the 64-bit version of XP is not to be taken seriously, so XP is incompatible with all PC's that have more than 4 GB of RAM (that is, most current PC's). Another example: tablets: XP doesn't work with touch screens.

Ease-of-use: what features of Windows 7 do you find more difficult to use than the corresponding features of XP?


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Come On !
by itsdigger / August 19, 2014 3:46 AM PDT

haven't we all had enough of the XP conversation ?

No XP here . Win 7, 8.1 and a Debian distro


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windows xp
by ganpati6297 / August 19, 2014 6:59 PM PDT

no i m not using xp last when i used xp xp its 2009

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by WilliamKSmith / August 19, 2014 9:46 PM PDT

Yesah.. I'm still using Windows XP today. From last so many i a have been using the same.

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