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Pioneer Receivers

by hjg24 / September 15, 2006 3:24 PM PDT

I am sort of interested in buying a pioneer receiver. The VSX-1015TX has received great reviews, but it seems to have no HDMI inputs or HDMI.

The VSX-1016TXV on the other hand has 2 HDMI inputs and 1 output. However, this product has received a worse review than the other model.

I just bought a Panasonic 50 inch plasma, model 50PX60U. This has two HDMI Inputs. I am currently connecting a HDMI cable from the back of my tv to my hdmi digital cable box to receive television in HD.

Basically, my question is: What are the pros and cons of each of these when it comes to HDMI. What effect will the VSX-1015TX have considering it has no HDMI inputs or outputs. What does this basically mean? Since I am using HDMI to connect to my digital cable box to recieve HDTV, does this mean I will have to get a receiver with HDMI outputs to receive surround sound with tv?

Does anyone know of a good receiver that has HDMI capabilities (if i do neeed them)? Thank you, Harry Greener

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i have the 1015
by inni121 / September 15, 2006 5:40 PM PDT
In reply to: Pioneer Receivers

i love the 1015 i have the silver one and its great, lots of power, never struggles, i am actually going to pick up a new set of speakers tomorrow, but more on than in another post...

as far as HDMI, i am pretty sure u can live without it on the receiver, just run the HDMI video signal from the cable box straight to the tv and then run a digital optical (toslink) cable or the digital coax cable from the cable box straight to the receiver, both of which can pass the 5.1 surround sound from the cable box to the receiver. i am sure the cable box has at least one of those connections available

(BTW the 1016 only PASSES the HDMI signal it doesn not up convert lower signals up to HDMI so it is of dubious value here i think, maybe i am wrong, so let me know)

i do know that both the 1015 and 1016 do not have the Lip Sync delay feature (corrects for the time delay between the picture on the TV and the sound that u hear) but i am not sure how it would be used if it did have it, since i do not own a HDTV, maybe someone could shed light on it!?!?

as far as performance i can give u the green light on the 1015 AWESOME recevier, the way it looks from the outside is better than the 1016, there is a drop panel with magnetic screws holding it when its closed that looks like a mad robot jaw, the whole front is aluminum along with the volume and multi jog dials (good) instead of the plastic (bad) on the 1016

this reviewer:
even claims that the 1015 is almost identical to the pioneer ELITE vsx-52TX which costs a lot more

i paid 499.99 + (14%) tax here in toronto, ontario and i LOVE it, if there was another one i could find here i would buy it with my eyes closed [or open since i would not wanna fall and break it hehe ;-)]

PS: what kind of speakers do u have/looking for?
thats what actually matters the most

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by hjg24 / September 15, 2006 5:54 PM PDT
In reply to: i have the 1015

First off, thanks a lot for your long, detailed response, I REALLY appreciate it. As I said before, I was first going to buy HTIB. Partly becuae I was intimidated by putting together my own system. I will probally go with the 1015 as well. I just wanst sure about the HDMI becuase I dont have a lot of information in that area, but you have made me confident in my choice. THanks

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Also... speakers
by hjg24 / September 15, 2006 6:03 PM PDT
In reply to: i have the 1015

Thanks for bringing that up... I wasn't sure if it was better to spend more money on speakers or on the receiver. What speakers do you recomend? Will a sub come with speakers or do I have to buy that seperately as well? Also, what did you use to wire the speakers? Thanks, Harry

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Don't be intimidated!
by inni121 / September 16, 2006 12:05 AM PDT
In reply to: Also... speakers

i put my own (frist) real system together and i am still adding to it:

Pioneer VSX-1015TX-s
JBL E100 fronts (picking them up today actually)
JBL E90 rears
JBL E60 center (no this is not a typo my center is a tower)

i do not enjoy the sound of HTIB small cube speakers, i do not think they reproduce the sound in a natural way. therefore i recommed you get at least bookshelf sized speakers or towers if u have the moeny. a sub is always nice but if the budget doesnt permit, you can always add one later (like i am planning to do)

if u get the HTIB then u need a sub right away tho it usually comes with the speakers but sometimes can be really crappy

speaker wire is the easiest question, are u ready for this? >............USE LAMP CORD

yes use electrical copper stranded cord 12 gage is the best i only use that. i do also have monster XP wires but i hear no sound difference (for a very different price) u can go to home depot and buy a spool thats 100 ft and it will last u forever, the gage is important, if its more than 50 Ft then u must go with 12 AWG if its less (also if u use small cube speakers) then 14 or even 16 AWG is fine, but i would not go smaller that this

as far as 1015 vs 1016 performance they should sound similar (most likely u will not tell the difference), the 1015 uses Direct energy mosfet amps while the new 1016 departs from that to use some kind of bipolar design, i do not know if it sounds better or worse but i think the same amp is used in the lower versions 516 and 816, its some kind of a hybrid design i dont know exactly

the features ar eidentical, as far as i can tell except the 1016 has phase control and HDMI (just passing the signal no upconversion to HDMI)

it sounds like u already made a purchace, did u get the vsx-80tx ???

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About the speakers
by hjg24 / September 16, 2006 5:54 AM PDT
In reply to: Don't be intimidated!

The JBL's that you told me about look really nice and in my price range. I also agree with you on your feelings about small cube speakers. Is it okay if I ask you a few questions about them?

1. The fronts (JBL E100): do both a right and left front come together or do you have to buy them seperately?

2. Same question for the rears (JBL E90) seperately?

3. I don't really think my living room is big enough to hold a center speaker that is also a tower. Can you recomend something a little smaller?

4. Any recomendations for a nice sub with the JBL speakers? Also, what would I use to wire the sub?

Thanks a lot, I really appreciate it. I am getting really excited about the possibilities. Thank you

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sorry, 1 last thing
by hjg24 / September 15, 2006 6:41 PM PDT
In reply to: Pioneer Receivers

It seems that the 1015 is not even being sold anymore since the release of the 1016. So my question is, even though the 1016 only passes through the HDMI signal, it will still have the same capabilities as the 1015, but with this added feature? In other words, will I receive the same perfoence with the 1016 as the 1015?

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Ended up going with the VSX-80TXV
by hjg24 / September 15, 2006 7:31 PM PDT
In reply to: Pioneer Receivers
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not a bad choce, its the brand new elite model
by inni121 / September 15, 2006 11:44 PM PDT

its the lowest of the elite models, but its probably very similar to the 1015, the amp is different tho

i never heard this one play but should be nice


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Thanks a lot
by hjg24 / September 16, 2006 3:59 AM PDT

Thanks for all of the information, you really helped me out a lot. Harry

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by hjg24 / September 16, 2006 9:01 AM PDT

The JBL's that you told me about look really nice and in my price range. I also agree with you on your feelings about small cube speakers. Is it okay if I ask you a few questions about them?

1. The fronts (JBL E100): do both a right and left front come together or do you have to buy them seperately?

2. Same question for the rears (JBL E90) seperately?

3. I don't really think my living room is big enough to hold a center speaker that is also a tower. Can you recomend something a little smaller?

4. Any recomendations for a nice sub with the JBL speakers? Also, what would I use to wire the sub?

Thanks a lot, I really appreciate it. I am getting really excited about the possibilities. Thank you

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by RoadRunner6 / September 16, 2006 2:02 PM PDT

Receivers have parallel models like other brands such as Denon, Sony and Yamaha that are sold thru different classes of dealers.

The Pioneer VSX-80TXV and the VSX-1016TX are probably the same receiver with minor differences to fool the customers. The power specs are listed in a different way but it's the same amp.

With the "Elite" name on your unit you will be able to make up the $30 when you sell it. Nice receiver you have there.


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by RoadRunner6 / September 16, 2006 2:12 PM PDT
In reply to: Pioneer

I didn't see anything here about your room size, carpets? and description (which is very important), musical taste and how loud you play your music and movies or your budget unless I missed it.

If you decide you don't want the large JBL speakers here is a system for $999 (if that is in your price range) that has an awesome sub, great sound and is on the smaller side (however will not play quite as loud as the JBL's...we are talking here very loud versus extremely loud). Read the reviews.


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by hjg24 / September 16, 2006 2:28 PM PDT
In reply to: Speakers

Thanks roadrunner for the supply. Well, my budget is around $1000. I would say that my loving room small. I do have carpet. The system probally won't be for much music, is not any. Primarily for tv (sports) and movies. So your saying the JBL is extemely loud and this is just very loud? I dont really think I need something that is extremely loud. I also like how you can get this package with everything included. Do you currently have this? Would you recomend something else with the information I just provideD? Thanks, Harry

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The JBL Northridge line has many combinations for u!
by inni121 / September 16, 2006 3:18 PM PDT
In reply to: Thanks

Since these speakers are sold separately (meaning in pairs or singles not like HTIB) u can combine whatever the size u require for ur needs

knowing u have a small living room and u mainly watch movies and tv, not music leads me to recomend bookshelf speakers not floorstanding models, u also will most definitely now neeed a subwoofer

i only have experience with the JBL's so thats the only series i can speak of personally, and from this in MY opinion you can still get an awesome 5.1 surround sound system, check this out:

NOTE: i am assuming you already picked up the Pioneer Elite VSX-80TXV so i am not going to recomend any receiver

as far as speakers you can check out the prices online for these models

JBL E50 (for fronts, put them on stands)
JBL E10 (for surrounds, hang them on the side or back walls which ever is permitted by the layout of ur room)
and JBL EC35 (Center channel)--> IF u go with these speakers make sure u pick this center channel over the EC25. the 35 sounds like a high end model for a fraction of the cost, its 3 way design is rare at this price range, it really does bring movies to life!!!

as far as the sub goes, it does not have to be from the same series (the reason for matching speakers is so that they all sound alike, this is called "voice matching" they must have the same tweeter and/or mid-range if applicable)

the JBL EP250 is a nice sub, but i would rather pick the Velodybe DPS-12 or the Klipsch Sub-12 (these are all 12" models)
since u say u have a small room u could get away with a 10" (the above mentioned models all come in 10" models as well)

BTW what RR means by LOUD is that these speakers in the series are very sensitive and they do not need much power to play at a good volume, since i am assuming u have that pioneer mentioned above it can push these speakers to very loud volumes

BUT guess who controls that volume knob, U do, u only turn it up to the level u like thats all

PS: this is just me providing knowledge of what I have had physical contact with, i have some of these speakers i spoke of at home and the pioneer receiver as well, so thats why i am mentioning these speakers only, there are millions of speakers out there for different prices. dont go with HTIB the cubes are not the best idea, bookshelf size is ideal i THINK for u and ur living room environment

ask more questions before we start charging money, hehe kidding

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by hjg24 / September 16, 2006 4:29 PM PDT

Thanks for the suggestions MindMelt, I am looking into the products you requested right now. When I was in BestBuy, they had surround sound set up and the movie "Gladiator" playing. WHen I sat down, it sounded like I was actually in the movie, the sound was amazing. Now I am not sure what speaker system they had set up, but will the JBL's you suggested produce this same effect of being in the movies? Thanks as always, Harry (also, do you have AIM or msn instand messanger)

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yeah yeah, i know that feeling...
by inni121 / September 16, 2006 5:09 PM PDT
In reply to: Cool

i know its a yahoo account but search for that email in MSN messenger or msn instant messenger its the same thing and ull find me

i duno where u live, but the best buy here carries some good and some crappy speakers

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by RoadRunner6 / September 17, 2006 2:20 PM PDT
In reply to: Thanks

First, if you do go with the Northridge series you have to move fast. They are a discontinued series. The closeout prices are outstanding.

I would not go for a floorstanding model especially in a ''small'' room. Dimensions in feet including the ceiling height would help.

If it really is a small room and you don't play the sound extremely loud then I would go for the Northridge E20 bookshelf for the left and right, the EC25 for the center (all three of these have the same exact tweeter and 5'' driver), and the E10 for the two surrounds. With the links below the total price is $298 for these five speakers, wow! (or you can go with the E30 bookshelf and EC35 center...check out the size and wieght specifications)

Woops! I just checked and it looks like the E10's are all sold out. The same speaker in the newer series and a higher price with different looks is here.

You can pick any sub. I can recommend much better subs than the JBL's. I am estimating you can get an excellent sub for about $300-$600 depending on space available and if you have neighbors you might bother below? The sub will take over the bass from 80Hz or so and on down. The subs I would recommend will go down flat to 20Hz-30Hz which is outstanding in this price range.

You need a subwoofer and a good one for great movie sound. More importantly is how you place the speakers in your room. The best speakers will not sound that good if not placed correctly.

The system from SVS is simply superb for movies in this price range. This sub goes VERY LOW for a sub that runs $429 by itself and lower than most subs you would find for $1000 or less. I am currently buying a system and considering an SVS sub (more expensive model) as well as ones from HSU subs and Outlaw Audio. My speakers which I have already ordered are from Axiom Audio.

I can recommend other systems for you but would like to know more about your room and system. Maybe I missed it but what TV do you have? Do you want to place the center on the TV and the left and right on stands or do you want them on the wall? The surrounds normally would go either on the side wall or on tall stands. Are there openings from your room to toher areas of the house (house or apartment).

All the systems we are talking about will give you great home theater sound, guaranteed!

The JBL's are a super buy right now but rather basic black vinyl boxes in appearance. If you want something in silver or piano gloss black, etc, those are available too.



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The price difference is actually $200 here in Toronto
by inni121 / September 16, 2006 3:37 PM PDT
In reply to: Pioneer

the 1016 is worth $699 canadian loonies where as the 80TX is worth %899

HEY RR6, to divert some attention to umm, MEEEEE for a second: just thought u would like to know that this saturday morning i picked up my JBL E100's and boy was i glad i made the purchase. since my listening consists of 99 % music these speakers will delay the purchase of a subwoofer for a very long time, they are pretty much full range speakers

i really like them, they actually Do seem to play a bit louder than the E90's play, i can now fully appretiate the JBL tweeters, they are amazing, i have wondered before why u put so much emphasis on the tweeter, but it makes mathematical sense, since they reproduce 75% of the sound field of the human hearing, the internal crossover passes everything above 5KHz to the tweeter, thats a BW of 15KHZ !!!!!, thats a lot of sound i was missing with the blown tweeters of the E90's(or whatever the reason was for them nto playing)

the pioner has something called Direct mode, which turns off any equalizer set prior, any room equalization program EVERYTHING and just plays them FLAT, this mode is amazing for jazz, soft rock, chillout, and downtempo, ect

also i can tell physically the wooofers dont move as much to produce the same base of the e90s, but when i make them move more the bass is just sweet. they send some serious vibrations through the room, these are speakers that begin to enter the subwoofer range, i mean NO they cant replace a quality sub and they are not meant to, but in a HT setup and ESPECIALLY stereo, for music, i could not get a better deal for the money, thats what its all about

now i wanna ask u something RR:
when i eventually get the e90's back, i will have a 5.0 setup, is the best idea for me to set the E60 center to small, as well as the surround E90s to small, but leave the E100 fronts as Large to complete everything below 80Hz ????

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Pioneer Receiver/JBL Speakers
by RoadRunner6 / September 17, 2006 2:43 PM PDT

MindMelt, I still think that is the same unit. Here in the States the 1016 lists (MSRP) for $500 and the 80TX lists for $650. The Elite has a two year warranty versus a one year warranty. Same with many other brands. Also the same exact receivers in the Yamaha ''regular'' HTR line and their ''premium'' RX-V line run about $30 or more difference online. The extra list price gives the higher end type dealers more profit room to deal with.

Yes, most reciever have some sort of a Direct or Pure mode that bypasses the digital sound processing and other controls.

''now i wanna ask u something RR:
when i eventually get the e90's back, i will have a 5.0 setup, is the best idea for me to set the E60 center to small, as well as the surround E90s to small, but leave the E100 fronts as Large to complete everything below 80Hz ???? ''

No, you have no sub. The bass management system, large versus small and the crossover is to balance the sound between the 5 speakers and the sub.

In your case (until you get the sub) you would select ''sub'' as ''no'' or ''none.'' You are telling the receiver that there is no sub in your system. All 5 speakers would be set to ''large'' but that might be automatic when you indicate no sub. In other words, the large versus small should not be applicable here since there is no sub to redirect that lower bass to.

Now, there is a possiblity that I am wrong here. Suggest you read the manual carefully. I have never had a HT system without the sub so I really haven't paid much attention to this question. It is possible that there is a high pass filter that you can apply to the individual speakers but I doubt it in this priced receiver.

Glad you got that irritating tweeter problem solved and your system sounds like it should.



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Crossover Indeed
by inni121 / September 17, 2006 3:47 PM PDT

i have just looked over the manual, as far as I understand it DOES indeed allow me to do what i was asking u about

i can only try this with the center channel that i currently have (3.0) but the rest will have to wait until i get the e90s back

also i apparently CAN change the crossover so that everything above it (from speakers sent to small) will be sent to speakers set to large

i mean this is something i actually have to try doing and hear the results and c if i like it or not, its hard to tell right now, i will definitely try.

as far as receivers go, i have read that on a web site that some receivers do use the same chassis and amp sections in different lines/models. usually the specs tell the story (THD and wpc)

Hey RR6 it doesnt mention on ur profile what kind of system u have, i would love to hear what setup u have going on, (better not be some HTIB small cube stuff, this will upset me Wink ) care to share ???

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by RoadRunner6 / September 20, 2006 6:52 PM PDT
In reply to: Crossover Indeed

.....I am actually in the process of buying a new 5.1 speaker system. I'll give you some info on it and more later when I have it hooked up and some time with it. I have always been poor and had to scrape for the equipment I have. That's one reason why I shop so carefully for best buys.

For many years I had big-*** speakers. A few years ago we had to sell my last big system which was a large 5.1 system, all Klipsch, when we moved into a fairly small condo. Prior to that I had many different systems including my old huge Altec Lansing's and equipment from Wharfedale, AR LST, Rectilinear, SpeakerLab, Marantz, Denon, etc. (lots of this was before you were born!...Ha).

We are quite restricted size wise and have little room for speakers. Until I just sold them, I had two 5.1 systems in both the living room and bedroom. Both were small Energy 5.1 satellite/sub systems with Denon and Sony receivers.

I got the Sony STR-DA4ES receiver for the living room. It has an extensive bass management/sub crossover and parametric EQ system that can be set for all the channels individually, a great feature. The STR-DA4ES weighs 46lbs (read quality)! So the Sony won out over a Denon even thought the Sony remote is horrible. I am using a URC MX-500 remote (great remote) for the system remote.

Using the Sony along with an ART 351, 31 band, mono graphic equalizer for the sub, I was able to tweek the system to obtain an in room FR of 28-200Hz +/- 1.5 dB's. Really impressive for a system with an 8'' sub.

Other equipment includes my JVC plasma, Technics turntable/Shure cartridge, 2 Panasonic DVR's (one with hard drive), Sony and JVC S-VHS VCR's, Tripp-Lite UPS system and other miscellaneous VCR's and casette decks.

I have ordered 5 speakers from Axiom Audio in Canada. They are a direct to the buyer speaker company. 3ea of their M2i small bookshelf speakers for the left, center and right (no horizontal center channel speakers...this is a little known trick that gives the best soundstage and identical voicing up front, but is not practical for those with large speakers). I sound tested a single M2i in my home and have now ordered the M2i's in a special order piano gloss black (lots of extra bucks). The M2i has received outstanding reviews.

The surrounds will be the QS4. This is an amazing surround that Axiom calls a ''quadpolar'' design. Most of the pro reviewers have raved about this speaker. I am getting a special color match on it for the wall paint (also extra bucks). Should have these speakers in about 4-6 weeks.

I spent a lot of time choosing this setup since it should last me for the many years we plan to be in this condo. I considered many speakers in the process including NHT, B&W, Monitor Audio, Energy, Aperion, Ascend and Definitive Technology to mention a few. All of these are excellent speakers. I chose the Axioms due to our requirements for size, enclosure design and aesthetics in addition to the excellent reviews.

I am currently deciding on a sub. I have also considered many brands including Energy, Polk, Velodyne, M&K, Rocket, NHT and have pretty much narrowed it down to the Outlaw LFM-1 Plus, HSU VTF-3 MK2 and the SVS 20-39PC (cylinder sub). Originally, I was looking at the smaller Outlaw LFM-2 until my wife decided to eliminate a rocking chair which opened up a new much larger place for a full size 12'' sub. We are talking here about subs that should go down to about 12-18Hz, almost flat, in my room. Subs tend to have an even lower bass extension in smaller rooms.

Needless to say I'm having lots of fun. Sorry about the long winded response (as usual).


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hey RR great post o love it
by inni121 / September 21, 2006 12:16 PM PDT
In reply to: MindMelt.....

I am like u, i always try to look around for the best deal possible, its a must in these days, prices are outrageous for things, thats why i had that crazy setup when i just got to this site, i knew the math which proved my setup unsafe, but i thought what the heck, i wanted to experiment

i always dreamed of having big towers, and now i could afford what i wanted so i went for it and got my first BIG system, after spending a lot of money on college

u must have had lots of fun setting all those speakers up throughout time and playing with the settings and positioning and room acoustics

i wonder what this is: JVC S-VHS VCR, some kind of Super VHS player ?

I never knew AXIOM are from Canada, i wonder if the factory is around toronto so i could sneak in and take a peek LOL

u seem to have many analog video sources, all those VHS players and such, u have a large movie collection on tapes ?

i have many movies on tape brought from Russia ( thats where i came to canada fom 12 years ago ) but since they are programmed in A different system ( NTSC/PAL SECAM ) we had to get a more expensive multi system Sony TV and Sony VHS player ages ago ( still working perfectly after like 12 years haha SONY!!!!!)

and NO ur posts are not super long, they are super informative and thoughtful, i alway like to hear what u have to say about the various issues here on this site
so to me the longer ur posts the BETTER !!!!


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by RoadRunner6 / September 21, 2006 6:09 PM PDT

...Andrei for you kind comments. Axiom is in Dwight, Ontario. I think that is in the Oxtongue Lake area which is several hours from Toronto.

Axiom is one of the Canadian speaker companies which benefited from the Canadian National Research Council Lab in Ottowa. There are anechoic chambers there which all the companies used for their acoustic research. Canada has some of the very best speaker companies in the world for making excellent value speakers that have very linear frequency response characteristics. I probably can't now remember all the companies but some are Energy, Axiom, Athena, Paradigm and Mirage. Klipsch just bought API which is the parent organization of Energy, Mirage and Athena.

Yes, S-VHS is super-VHS which is a high resolutiion form of VHS. I have a top of the line Sony HI-8 camcorder from about 10 years ago. It still takes superb videos. I used the two S-VHS machines, Sony and JVC for editing my personal family Hi-8 videos to S-VHS master tapes with an analog editing system (wow, lots of work). I now transfer the S-VHS videos to DVD-R for archiving. The other VCR's and movies are just paper weights now that DVD's are here.

Let us know how all those new JBL's sound and when you are ready to take the plunge for the sub. Take Care.

RR6 (Chuck)

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