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General discussion

Pets and Pests

Apr 4, 2005 10:59PM PDT

Mark and I have disagreed on the keeping of pets.

He keeps snakes and I don't consider most animals as pets, but captive animals. Let me give my side, and please weigh in with logical thought and skip the name calling.

I love dogs. Dogs love me. I have dog pets. They depend on me for many things I provide, and I depend on them for loyalty, companionship, protection to mention a few attributes. A symbiotic relationship if you will. Cats might fall into that category, I don't know anything about cats.

I do not consider snakes, alligators, lions, tigers, birds, lizards, fish and scores of other wild animals as pets. They do not love you, they will not return home from as far away as the front lawn, and they may eat you some day. In this category, I include American Pitbull terriers that have been bred for meanness and other animals that man messed with, and I'll agree that you can 'break' an animal to return home, something like a mentally battered woman knows she can't survive w/o the old Lord and Master.

I think taking a young (your wild animal here) out of his native habitat, caged and shipped to the United States in a crate is wrong. Why should said animal be deprived of it's family, youth, favorite climate, favorite food, favorite hunt, like animal camaraderie, finding his/her true place in the pecking order of life, and feeling of self accomplishment and so on, while we enjoy a caged, fully functional animal in a imposed sexless life? Ever wonder what your Parrot does when the cover goes on? Happy

As far as zoos returning animals to the wild, let me say; this is second best to leaving them thrive and evolve in an unadulterated (by humans) area. At least tropical fish are kept with other of their species, but not my thing.

Your shot. (donning my asbestos underoos.)

Discussion is locked

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jerry
Apr 4, 2005 11:40PM PDT

what you say is some right, but the taking of wild animals is wrong.
ill just speak for my self and most reptile keepers.
all my snakes are cb which is captive breed.

not captured. long time the stock there from was wild.

and these days taking wild isnt right and most is ileagle.
and when i had a parrot she would show affection, there not as dumb as some think.


and if the good reptile keepers dont keep the breed going how many will be extinct as to there area is gone mans cutting trees etc.

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OK
Apr 5, 2005 12:34AM PDT

I have had parrakeet's since I was a kid, we have had two of them get out, My Mother left the back door open and our pet came home. When I had my Pretty get out I did the same thing and she also came home. I keep fish, and like Mark say's they are smarter than people think. My Oscars recognize us and watch what we do! I have their tank set up by my PC and they watch as the screen changesHappy They also beg for food! When I had a salt water tank, My Lion Fish wouldn't eat for anyone but me. If your pets are taken care of I see nothing wrong with keeping birds and fish, or snakes for that matter. Monkeys and other animals I think is another story as is the keeping of big cats. Just my opinionHappy

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Most ... if not all ...
Apr 5, 2005 1:00AM PDT

... pets are not "captured from the wild". Your domestic dog does not resemble the wild dogs from which it was bred. My domestic kitties do not resemble their wild ancestors. Although my current pet kitties were "captured from the wild" as they were rescued strays, they are not "wild cats". I keep them indoors at all times, and they do not wish to go outside. They do enjoy the "video games" I set up for them in the form of finch and hummy feeders outside the window Wink Some say it is not right to keep a cat indoors, others believe just the opposite. But IAC, my cats are happy. If I go to a pet store to buy a parakeet or a snake or a fish, they are not captured from the wild, they are bred. As Glenda related, I've known many whose pet birds have returned upon getting out of the house. Love? Well, I had a "pet bird" for a summer in high school. I had an avocado tree I kept near the window of my bedroom. One morning I accidentally opened the window w/o putting the screen down, and that bird came inside to sit on my tree and sing to me. Did it just about every day I opened the window for it that summer.

Guess what I'm trying to say is I understand and agree with your feelings on wild animals. But if one is opposed to the breeding of animals to keep as domestic pets, one has to be consistent and believe it is wrong for all pets.

Evie Happy

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Pit Bulls get a bad rap
Apr 5, 2005 1:13AM PDT

I've known pit bulls that are very sweet and loyal. Some are mistreated and taught to be mean. It all depends on how you raise them.

I have what I call my vicious dog. She is dobie, rhott, and pit bull. She will lick you to death. She and the cat sleep on my bed together. She will chase him when he runs but just look at him when he walks by.

Staffordshire Terriers are the same breed and you don't hear too many of them attacking people. Men get pit bulls, ruin them, and think that makes them tough guys.

click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

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So agree with you!
Apr 5, 2005 1:29AM PDT

Our oldest daughter had a pitt bull that was just the sweetest dog you could imagine! It's the people that raise them mean that should get the bad rap not the animal!

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The problem with pit bulls ...
Apr 7, 2005 1:00AM PDT

... is that the TENDENCIES have been bred into them. Likely a jerk owner has a greater chance of raising a mean one, but even the most gentle owner with the most gentle (appearing) of pit bulls have been known to be shocked when that dog acts like it has been BRED to do. This is man's fault, not the dog's fault, but to err on the side of caution, these dogs really shouldn't be kept as pets when there are so many other options.

Evie Happy

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These dogs are bred to be loyal and defensive
Apr 7, 2005 9:32AM PDT

It is also bred in every canine to challenge the leader (you). If you don't think you can discipline these dogs, you shouldn't have them. I have had Rhotts and Dobies as well as this dog.

I had a Malamute whose father was put down before she was born for killing sheep. Her mother was put down for killing pet rabbits. I started her training when I got her at 5 1/2 weeks old. She never did like other animals but she could be in the middle of a dog fight and I could be prying her jaws off the other dog and she would never bite me. What's more she never broke the skin of the other dog. She could be running after another animal and I would call her and she would stop and come back. She might grumble at me but she obeyed. She could always be trusted around kids. They would come over enmass and groom her and she would just stand or lay still and get combed. She got her CD in three shows. She graduated first in her obedience class.

I've always had large dogs and I know what is cute at five pounds isn't cute at 100 pounds. I love them dearly but they know what "Be nice" means.

I feel for the dogs whose owners back off the first time the dog growls. The dog then believes he has the upper hand. This is dog that will turn bad and have to be put down. I've seen it over and over.

click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

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Well I see this starter post is
Apr 5, 2005 1:32AM PDT

starting to simmer nicely. I agree with what most of you are saying. I have a friend that owns a shark that will slap the inside of the tank when it wants to be petted. It's still a long way from helping old ladies across the street or pulling a child out of a burning building. I just can't help but believe he wouldn't be happier in the wild making little sharks if he knew both lifestyles equally. Look at the welfare safety net we set up for minorities, ever talked to a happy kept welfare recipient? We give them food, shelter, medical care and they want respect for ungraciously taking it.

Is a loving bird loving and returning because he truly loves you or doesn't posses the hunting, survival skills that the breed once had? It could be that he knows where to get food, water and familiar talk from a loving OWNER.

Continue on and chat amongst yourselves while I start another thread Happy

Sometimes this is more fun than just posting links to reading assignments isn't it? It's nice to get into your heads.

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And now you can take off
Apr 5, 2005 1:39AM PDT

your asbestos underoos! LOL! See, you didn't even need themHappy

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(NT) (NT) You remember underoos?
Apr 5, 2005 8:05AM PDT
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Hmmmmmm
Apr 5, 2005 1:17PM PDT

weren't they popular for little boy's in the 60's??

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(NT) (NT) Yes Ma'am.
Apr 6, 2005 7:13PM PDT
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(NT) (NT) Nice to be right on SOMETHING!!! LOLOL
Apr 7, 2005 12:12AM PDT
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re: Well I see
Apr 5, 2005 7:34AM PDT

"It's still a long way from helping old ladies across the street or pulling a child out of a burning building."

So, how long do you think it will take?Silly

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Let's finish this before we calculate
Apr 6, 2005 7:14PM PDT

the evolution of arms and legs.

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Reply
Apr 7, 2005 1:07AM PDT
Is a loving bird loving and returning because he truly loves you or doesn't posses the hunting, survival skills that the breed once had? It could be that he knows where to get food, water and familiar talk from a loving OWNER.


You don't see how the exact same can be said for your pet dog or pet cat? Yeah, my adopted strays could have survived outdoors -- there is one from the litter we still see around (albeit with a limp, crumpled ear, and quite small, now being fed on occasion by my FIL) -- and they have good survival skills (quite the mousers). But they definitely much prefer their current life. Your dog wouldn't last long on his own either, so I'll leave it to you to discern how much of his love is really of companionship and not because you feed and care for him.

Bottom line, a pet, whether canine, feline, reptile, bird or otherwise, has been BRED to be a pet. Whatever relationship develops between human and pet is partly based on dependence. And yes, I love my kitties and they sure do seem to love me back. But there are others that prefer other pets.

Evie Happy
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My take
Apr 5, 2005 4:25AM PDT

When it comes to having something around that is loyal, unjudgmental, trusting, and doesn't care how I look, I'll take a dog. Even more, there have been and are some that I like more than some people.

I also like cats, but can't have one because my daughter and granddaughter are allergic to them. I do enjoy the time I spend with my son's cat (and his 2 dogs.)

There are dogs that are nuisances and some are mean, but I don't blame the dogs- just their owners. I once had a neighbor who was stupid enough to put his woodpile against his fence. His dog would climb out by using the logs. When she came home, he beat her. Who the heck would want to come home? But she did.

Another neighbor raised cougars, supposedly as animal lovers. But it gave them a welcome excuse to strut around. macho style, with guns on their hips. The wife was indicted for embezzling from the Humane Society. Some animal lovers.

I've known people who own Rottweillers, Dobermans and Put Bulls just because they think it looks macho. They chain them to a tree, throw some food and water into dirty bowls. And the dogs get blamed when they go bonkers?

Parrots bred in the US are good pets. My daughter's family had an African Gray. It got along well with the dogs, and picked out it's favorite kibble from the dog bowls. But parrots live for a LONG time, and can become depressed and anxious when not given enough attention.So folks should do a lot of research before getting one.

Just as they should before getting a pure bred dog. Different breeds have different needs, and different health problems and buying one just because it is popular at the time can give you grief. They should be bought from reputable breeders (and all backyard ones are not!) Those in pet stores come from puppy mills. You don't want any part of that.

Being a mutt does not necessarily mean "more healthy". Mine is a mutt. He has esophageal problems, and has had surgery for a torn ACL. He also has allergies.

Mark has researched the care of his pets. But many who keep reptiles do not. They do not provide the proper housing, or keep it clean, for instance.

When I was taking Anatomy I, we were to kill and dissect a guinea pig. Now, I had one as a pet, so refused. The Sister and I got into a quite a discussion, as I believe that animals can have souls. (I still do- so don't try to talk me out of it!) It took a lot of work to bring up that "F" in Lab. Happy

And, yes, I think it was wrong for cosmetic companies to put chemicals into the eyes of rabbits to see if it hurt. I think most are now free of animal testing.

I think I'll go give my dog a hug now.

Angeline


click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

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(NT) (NT) you need to let my king snake hug you back:)
Apr 5, 2005 6:05AM PDT
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Sounds like you've
Apr 5, 2005 8:10AM PDT

been around the (block) water dish a few times. Thanks.

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Speaking of health problems...
Apr 5, 2005 8:27AM PDT

My T-Bone, Black Lab/Cocker Spaniel at for months deveolped the bad habit of sleeping in the carport. One day a freind got in the car and backed out to go shopping.

Later another freind stepped out into the carport and hollared "T-Bone, told you not to sleep in the carport". T-Bone not having responded, my freind walked over and shook the dog only to find it was rigimortified and cold. Freind said "oh well", picked the dog up by all fours, carried it to the tree-line and tossed it into the woods.

A couple hours later stepped out into the carport to find T-Bone sitting there looking intently up at me as if to say 'you anin't gonna get rid of me that easy'.

Badly kinked and tender neck cleared up after a couple weeks. But always acted like he had arthritis really bad. A year after I started giving him my Glucosamine Sulfate he's become more active and happy-go-lucky (and I do mean lucky) than other dogs out here in my peice of country.

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As a kid we always had pets
Apr 5, 2005 6:39AM PDT

We had boxers, various mutts and a german shepherd. Cats came later. My mother did not work outside the home so someone was there most of the day. I loved the animals as a kid. The shepherd was my dog, or so I thought and I'd take him for walk on a long tether through open fields. He'd go nuts just to be free but otherwise was on a long steel chain with a stake in the ground. I thought nothing of it. As an adult, I had no pets until I married and two cats came with the deal. There was no getting out of it.Happy They have since died and we have had no more though the kids clamored for an animal in the house. It was only as an adult that I understood the responsibility of pet ownership. This was after having neighbors whom I felt never should have them. I know some will disagree but I disapprove of putting dogs in cages. I know these are fashionably known as "crates" but the dog, I must think, sees them as cages. The lady next door kept Westies. She's a single mom with kids gone away and a schoolteacher. She would ask us to watch her dogs while she was gone on vacation but, since we both worked and the kids were in school, this meant the dogs had to keep our hours. These dogs were kept in cages all day. All we could do was let them out in the AM and PM for a few minutes and put them back in the cage as the lady did not let them have run of the house when she was not there. She was too cheap to board her animals and would leave them in this sort of care for a week or two at a time. Dogs are pack animals and really can go berzerk when the master is gone too long. During one of her absences, her dominant male went psychotic after she was gone more than a week and bit my son very badly when he went to let them out and feed them. I was sickened by how these dogs were treated. They are not toys to be taken off and put back on the shelf at the whim of an owner. They are not there to take on walks so that you can meet other dog owners of the opposite sex. They are not to make you look good when out. They depend on and bond with their masters and you should not get a pet just because you want one because they want you too and they want quality time with you. If you can't provide that, grow plants instead. My rant...Happy

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since i have a hard time standing/walking
Apr 5, 2005 6:58AM PDT

thats 1 main reason i have my cat shes a pleaseure she just wants to be with me, she fetches her fake mouse that i toss.
and i have snakes because from the 1st time ive seen a snake it clicked.

and my king snake kinda knows me as ill holde her losely in my hands while i watch tv shes stays .
now if i could teach her to fetch id be richGrin

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Pet fashions come and go
Apr 5, 2005 7:26AM PDT

I remember when iguanas were hot items and knew people who had them and I used to take care of my sis-in-laws bebe parrot now and then. The bird liked only like adult men and would fly to my shoulder but not my wife's. It really enjoyed getting out of it's cage when I came home and would preen my hair...that was sort of creepy.Happy But, what the bird liked most was going outside (in it's cage of course). We'd sit out back on weekend AMs. I'd have my big cup of coffee and Oscar (the bebe) would chat with his cousins. He was really in his element then and it was clear to me that Oscar would rather be with other birds than with me.Happy

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We have ads on TV trying to sell people on raising
Apr 5, 2005 8:14AM PDT

alpacas.

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Alpacas??? Well, why not??
Apr 5, 2005 10:00AM PDT

with gas prices as they are.Wink

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WE don't "own" our girls.........
Apr 5, 2005 7:14AM PDT

they own usHappy You should see the old girl when we tell her it is time to go outside! We get the dirtiest looks and she plops her butt down, puts her ears back and lets US know she will go when she is good and ready!

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dogs have...
Apr 5, 2005 7:23AM PDT

dogs have a master, cats have staff.

dw
("with two cats in the yard" - CSNY, "Our House," written by Neil Young to celebrate his then-current love affair and living arrangements with Joni Mitchell...)

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Shhhhhh.......
Apr 5, 2005 7:40AM PDT

Don't ever let my girls hear you say that! LOL

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(NT) (NT) Too late. They've known that for many millenia.
Apr 5, 2005 9:35AM PDT
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The ancient Egyptians...
Apr 5, 2005 11:30PM PDT

worshipped cats as gods. The cats haven't forgotten... Wink

dw