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Patriotism -- Where does Kerry fit?

The Constitution of the United States. Article III, Section 3, states the following:

?Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort.?

Section 3 of the 14th Amendment, added after the Civil War elaborates further:

?No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.?

Those definitions are very straightforward. It?s hard to imagine that anyone could misunderstand them or their meaning.

After the war General Vo Nguyen Giap (Supreme Commander of the Forces of North Vietnam), wrote his memoirs. In them, he states that if it weren't for organizations like Kerry's Vietnam Veterans Against the War, Hanoi would have surrendered to the U.S. In a Time/Life documentary ?The Ten Thousand Day War?, Giap again makes this point and gives credit for the Communist victory to the U.S. media and protestors like Jane Fonda and John Kerry. According to Giap, the North Vietnamese government played to our media and helped feed them the propaganda that was splashed across the news in the U.S. and around the world. Propaganda that not only broke down the morale of U.S. soldiers, but boosted the morale of the NVA.

That people is aid and comfort to the enemy. Pure and simple AID AND COMFORT!

As some recent articles and an ad by the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth show, Anti-war statements by famous politicians, film stars, and media figures also were thrown in the faces of American P.O.W.s in order to break their will to resist.

After he was released from the Hanoi Hilton in 1973, Sen. McCain publicly complained that testimony by Kerry and others before J. William Fullbright's Senate Foreign Relations Committee was the most effective propaganda that the North Vietnamese had to use against P.O.W.s.

He wrote about it in the May 14, 1973 issue of U.S. News & World Report. "They used Senator Fullbright a great deal." "All through this period, bombarding us with anti-war quotes from people in high places back in Washington. This was the most effective propaganda they had to use against us." (Kerry was working closely with the Fulbright committee, telling the American public that U.S. soldiers were committing war crimes in Vietnam as a matter of course despite knowing otherwise).

Many P.O.W.?s first heard Kerry?s name from the lips of their Communist captors. Of course now Kerry has been forced to admit that he had not actually seen these ?atrocities? committed, and that most of the so-called ?vets? he brought with him to give public testimony before Congress and Senator Fulbright?s committee had never actually served in the military. He has even admitted that his testimony was "Over the top".

Ion Mihai Pacepa, the highest-ranking intelligence officer ever to defect from the Soviet bloc, was interviewed by the National Review on February 26, 2004. According to him: ?As a spy chief and a general in the former Soviet satellite of Romania, I produced the very same vitriol Kerry repeated to the U.S. Congress almost word for word and planted it in leftist movements throughout Europe. KGB chairman Yuri Andropov managed our anti-Vietnam War operation. He often bragged about having damaged the U.S. foreign-policy consensus, poisoned domestic debate in the U.S., and built a credibility gap between America and European public opinion through our disinformation operations. Vietnam was, he once told me, ?our most significant success.??

Now Kerry's "supporters" (AKA apologizers) are doing it again. What these "Progressive Patriots" can't seem to grasp is that supporting the troops is more than lip service. It means actually supporting them, their mission, and their leadership--especially in public. If you disagree, keep it private. Or, at the very least, don?t broadcast it to the world so our enemies can re-print or re-broadcast it for their propaganda. Got a gripe? Write your congressman, the president, whoever. If they get enough letters of opposition, if the mission is unjust, if they think they will lose the next election by not bringing our troops home quickly enough, they?ll make it happen. In the meantime, the country needs to show the terrorists and Saddam hold outs that we are united against them.

Kerry doesn't seem to fit the definition of a patriot although like Benedict Arnold he does fit the definition of a traitor.

Something to think about:
?A nation can survive its fools and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and he carries his banners openly against the city. But the traitor moves among those within the gates freely, his sly whispers rustling through all alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears no traitor; he speaks in the accents familiar to his victim, and he wears their face and their garments and he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation; he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of a city; he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to be feared. The traitor is the plague.? ? Marcus Tullius Cicero, Roman Orator - 106-43 B.C.

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(NT) (NT) didnt they hang benidict arnald

In reply to: Patriotism -- Where does Kerry fit?

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Nope, he was not hung or executed.

In reply to: (NT) didnt they hang benidict arnald

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Re: Nope, he was not hung or executed.

In reply to: Nope, he was not hung or executed.

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I've always wondered............

In reply to: Patriotism -- Where does Kerry fit?

......why Jane Fonda, for her actions in Hanoi, and
herself and John Kerry were never challenged at the time
they were so very active.

I guess it gets down to the lawyereeze in defining the
meaning of "is", as it might apply to aid and comfort.

If both of these individuals are not guilty of treason
against the United States, they are certainly guilty of
treasonous acts against members of the US Military, and
the families of those members.

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Re: I've always wondered............

In reply to: I've always wondered............

Shame on you, Del. Even you should eb able to see the difference between someone who fgoes to North VietNam in the middle of wartime and one who volunteers for combat, fights honorably and with distinction, and then based on those experiences criticizes the war domestically. The only alternative is that one's morality should be "my country right or wrong," and we ourselves, by hanging german and Japanese officers, have said that position is wrong -- as does just about every major Church.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Re: I've always wondered............

In reply to: Re: I've always wondered............

RE: "The only alternative is that one's morality should be "my country right or wrong," and we ourselves, by hanging german and Japanese officers, have said that position is wrong -- as does just about every major Church."

Last night I watched a 2 hour TV documentary on the Discovery History Channel titled, Wake Island..The Alamo of the Pacific. This was different than the movie put out by Hollywood around 1942 concerning Wake Island and the hero Marines and civilian contractors who fought the 1st victory battle of the war right after Dec 7, 1941, which helped sell War Bonds at the time. The 450 Marines, assisted by 1100 civilian contractors withstood many days of aerial bombardment by aircraft of a Japanese task force, destroying all but 4 US Wild Cat aircraft out of 14 around December 23, 1941. The daily bombing raids were met by these 4 aircraft which were whittled down to 2, then to one, limping in shot up with the pilot wounded. That wounded pilot, just a few days later led Marines on ground attacks against landing of Japanese and was killed by rifle fire. He was the 1st person of the war against Japan to receive the Medal of Honor.

Our 1st victory battle of the war was when the Japanese sent a 14 ship task force to invade Wake Island. The US Marine commander at Wake only had a few 3" cannons. The task force figured that Wake was completely destroyed by the daily bombing and it would be a 'cake walk'. Without air cover they steamed in very close. US Marines were ordered not to fire the few cannons by the commander (a Major) at the normal range around 9,000 yards, but to let them come in at close range. Something like the combat of old "do not fire until you see the whites of their eyes". At around 3500 yards he gave the command to fire. The 2 remaining Wild Cats were launched, and all hell broke loose for the surprised Japanese. A lucky 3" shell hit some exposed ordnance on a destroyer and the ship blew apart sinking immediately. The 2 Wild Cats sank another destroyer, and with the island fire they all managed to damage 7 other ships. The Japanese task force retreated in disgrace and dishonor, their only defeat in history. One of the Wild Cats was shot down with the pilot lost, the other limped in shot up with the wounded pilot.

The task force Japanese commander was humilated...sent more bombers the next day, and then a day later before dawn showed up on the horizon with a huge task force of 70 ships for a ground force invasion. The Marines were down to less than 400 men manning machine guns on the beaches and just a few remaining 3" cannons with the muzzle pointing level for direct up close combat. The Japanese launched landing boats and rubber boats with aprx 900 men on the 1st wave. The US Marines, knowing that the Japanese did not take prisoners from their exploits in China, decided this was it and they would not survive so go all out, Gung HO, no surrender. The battle was fierce with extremely close fronts. Many of the civilian contractors helped as they could supply ammunition and some even firing machine guns. The Discovery Channel had 5 Marines and 1 civilian all in their 80's who were in the actual fighting on the Island, talking about the experience. A Japanese soldier was also interview explaining how he survived on the beach.

By close to noon the Marines out fought and killed all 900 invaders of the 1st wave hunting down many who had survived the beach and made it a little inland. The Marine Major Commander and overall Navy Commander of Wake Island was in a bunker during the fighting, coordinating by telephone with the different dug in units. The heavy fighting cut off the lines to the dug in units and they lost contact. They were in contact with Pearl Harbor who had sent a large task force to reinforce and rescue Wake but were still 500 miles away.
When they notified Pearl of the battle going on and the amount of Japanese ships, Pearl decided that Wake was lost, and did not want more of their ships damage so soon after the attack on Pearl Harbor just a couple weeks ago...the public would not stand for it. The rescue task force was order back to the anger of the Marines on board.

So, the 400 Marines & 1100 civilian contractors were expendable.

Well, the Marines on the beach felt pretty good, repelling the 1st wave.....bring em on.

The Major Marine Commander, losing all communications with his men on the beach left the bunker to tour the area to see how many survivors after the 1st wave. He came upon flag after flag that about every other Japanese soldiers carried, was stuck in the ground. He mistakenly surmised that there were still many of the enemy on the island. He and the Navy Island Commander discussed what would be best since there would be NO rescue from Pearl, and there is absolutely no way that they will win over the 70 + ships and huge waves of soldiers to come. They decided to surrender and possibly some would survive the slaughter. Runners were sent to all to cease fire and surrender. This angered the Marines who would rather die fighting than be executed.

The Japanese herded everyone naked with their arms tied behind their back with telephone wire, and also looped around their necks to the flight line. Machine guns were set up and they waited all night getting cold and the next day getting sunburned. They thought they were to be executed. The Japanese Commander who was defeated by coming in too close to shore and had to retreat appeared and announced that Tokyo high command gave the order not to execute. Tokyo had learned about the US citizens states side concern about the Wake Island battles and decided it would be best to ship the prisoners to China for incarnation. It took 12 days for a ship to take the prisoners to China where they were treated as slaves.

Gee Dave, I'm off track about your statement of our "hanging"....Japanese officers. I viewed the Discovery channel about Wake Island from 1AM to 3AM this morning, having seen other motion pictures about it by Hollywood and the military, but took a special interest in this one because I personally have visited and traveled through Wake Island aprx 12 times during the 1960's. I recall the 1st time seeing a rusted Japanese ship that was about one third sunk, beached head on. It was rusting bad and over a few years deteriorated to only a about 100ft of the hull showing. By now, it may have completely rusted away.

To continue on....The Japanese soldiers/officers knew nothing about construction/building and feared the US would send a huge task force to regain Wake Island. They retained 90 of the US Civilian construction workers to build bunkers and fortify the island. Everyone else was shipped to China. On board ship in the horrible holds the surviving prisoners were kept in had little food and water. One night at a Japanese on board ceremony/party they hauled up four Marines topside and they were never seen again. It was revealed after the war that the four were beheaded in ceremony because they were part of the aircraft ground crew that serviced the US planes that did so much damage to the Japanese warships.

OK, the hanging....The Japanese officer in charge of Wake Island in 1943 became so enraged with our constant bombardment of Wake that he took revenge and executed all 90 US Civilian Contractors.
After the war, that Japanese Commander was HANGED after a trial by the US Military.

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