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Pathetic and unfortunate......

by Mac McMullen / September 4, 2005 12:47 AM PDT

This ties to a post by J Vega, which I can't locate....

I guess this is what we saw the other evening......

A celebrity telethon for Hurricane Katrina survivors took an unexpected turn when outspoken rapper Kanye West went off script during the live broadcast, declaring America is set up "to help the poor, the black people, the less well-off as slow as possible."

Appearing two-thirds through the program, West took the government to task, claiming "George Bush doesn't care about black people."

.........West began a rant by saying, "I hate the way they portray us in the media. If you see a black family, it says they're looting. See a white family, it says they're looking for food."

.........Without getting specific, he added, "They've given them permission to go down and shoot us."

.........After he stated, "George Bush doesn't care about black people," the camera cut away to comedian Chris Tucker.

Full article: http://tv.msn.com/tv/article.aspx?news=200584

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well you know
by Mark5019 / September 4, 2005 12:52 AM PDT

its just the way they think cant see the forest for the trees.

taking food and water is one thing, color tvs/clothes is theft, shoot thieves less trouble

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He's only parroting that Yahoo "controversey" nonsense...
by EdH / September 4, 2005 1:00 AM PDT

and of course the obligatory Bush-bash. He's incapable of thinking for himself.

Or if I wanted to be cynical I'd say it's a bid for publicity. No matter. He will be quickly forgotten IMHO.

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hate to say it...
by dirtyrich / September 4, 2005 1:02 AM PDT

but unless something happens to cause people like this to get a clue... I wouldn't be surprised to see some sort of civil war/conflict sometime in the next 50 years. There's too many lies being accepted by the masses.

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Why was there no evacuation plan for thos w/o cars, DR?
by Dave Konkel [Moderator] / September 4, 2005 4:14 AM PDT
In reply to: hate to say it...

Most of America, and most of the country get it -- the vast majority of those trapped in NO were old, poor, or Black (and often a combination). The proseperous, young, anglos almost all made it out safely, unless they happened to be visitors with no support system. That's the reality -- folks like us lost their homes, but most weren't in danger. That's what the rest of the world sees, too -- and all the claims about "demagoging" or "shameful" from those who wouldn't have been affected had they lived there will not cover up the fact that this hurricane exposed for all the world to see the ugly divide between rich and poor, Black and white. As Elaine Clift put it the McGloughlin Group Friday night , "the TV pictures make it look like we have apartheid in this country." And the only way that civil discor you fear can be avoided is if the haves start giving a damn about the have-nots.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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The TV isn't reporting to outside sources
by TONI H / September 4, 2005 4:25 AM PDT

such as other countries that 70% of NO is black...therefore the majority of the people who stayed are going to BE black. If it was the opposite, and the majority were white, the outcry would be that they were POOR so ignored. The very fact that busses were available to evacutate by mandatory order of the LA governor and the MAYOR ignored that order to get those people out, falls immediately on HIS shoulders.....and no amount of swearing on the radio and bi.tching and moaning by HIM is going to change the fact that he used busses to get white tourists out and ignored his own civilian population is going to change that fact. And the fact that the MEDIA isn't telling the world that is shameful to the extreme.

TONI

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Why don't you ask the mayor?
by Edward ODaniel / September 4, 2005 4:47 AM PDT

Yes, that Democrat was the man responsible for his city's evacuation plans. He obviously didn't learn from his earlier experiences with hurricanes while in the office of mayor.

The "rest of the world" sees only what the media tries to spin things for them to see. The media, happy to blame Bush in print for not immediately sending in regular army troops has made no effort to make people aware that the National Guard can be used to enforce the law while Active Military are PREVENTED by law from doing that. When potential rescuers are being shot at or attacked the priority is on eliminating the attacks and attackers which the Guard could and the Active forces could not but again the media has made no effort to point out this little fact.

As of SATURDAY Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco (D) STILL had not declared a state of emergency.

Louisiana did not reach out to a multi-state mutual aid compact for assistance until Wednesday, three state and federal officials said.
and that is from a paper almost as liberal as the NYT.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/03/AR2005090301680.html

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sorry ed, but your wrong on that
by grimgraphix / September 4, 2005 5:18 AM PDT

from the FEMA web site and the link to it...

"""Saturday, August 27, 2005
Katrina Becomes a Category Three Hurricane, Aims Towards Northern Gulf Coast
State of Emergency Declared in Mississippi * Mississippi Governor Haley Barbour and *Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco declared States of Emergency Friday. In Louisiana, New Orleans is of particular concern because much of that city lies below sea level."""

http://www.fema.gov/emanagers/2005/nat082705.shtm

both governors had declared a state of emergency on Friday... still, the storm did not hit until sunday night/monday morning.

grim

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Lets see another link
by EdH / September 4, 2005 5:43 AM PDT

As far as I have been able to determine Haley Barbour, Mississippi declared a state of emergency on Saturday and Bob Riley, Alabama did same on Sunday. I haven't been able to determine when, if ever, Kathleen Blanco declared a state of emergency for Louisiana, despite what's on the FEMA website.

You probably won't accept NewsMax as a source, but according to this she has never declared a state of emergency:
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/9/4/124905.shtml

Not that it matters. George Bush caused the hurricane and all the ensuing misery anyway.

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(NT) (NT) LOL !
by grimgraphix / September 4, 2005 6:30 AM PDT
In reply to: Lets see another link
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(NT) (NT) So you can't?
by EdH / September 4, 2005 6:36 AM PDT
In reply to: (NT) LOL !
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How about official press release
by grimgraphix / September 4, 2005 6:52 AM PDT
In reply to: (NT) So you can't?
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Okay
by EdH / September 4, 2005 7:13 AM PDT

Funny that it wasn't reported anywhere when the other governors' declarations were. And according to the Wash Post (Ed's link):

Correction to This Article
A Sept. 4 article on the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina incorrectly said that Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco (D) had not declared a state of emergency. She declared an emergency on Aug. 26.


And there's still the issue of them wrangling over letting the feds help.

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no doubt...
by grimgraphix / September 4, 2005 7:42 AM PDT
In reply to: Okay

it was a classic FUBAR ! What if it had been a Dirty Bomb ? Makes me shiver.

grim

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You complain about Bush bashing
by Diana Forum moderator / September 4, 2005 8:34 PM PDT
In reply to: Okay

but you're doing the same thing to the governor.

You were given FEMA's website stating that she had declared a state of emergency before the storm and wouldn't believe it. Said it was wrong.

When you were shown another website, you finally, begrudgingly acknowledge she might have done the right thing and found your own website correction.

But you still won't give her a break - And there's still the issue of them letting the feds help.

From reading the posts, it was the Mayor that let the people of NO down and the poor (black and white) are complaining. I wonder how many of the ones left behind (good title for a book Wink ) bothered to vote. Reminds me of the Sunnis in Iraq telling their followers not to vote and then complaining about not being represented enough in the government.

I hope these people will take the time to vote and vote him out of office even if it has to be by absentee ballot.

Diana

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How is this bashing?
by EdH / September 5, 2005 12:05 AM PDT
There's still the issue of them letting the feds help.
Is that not a legitimate concern?
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Diana, did YOU READ the NO plan...
by Edward ODaniel / September 5, 2005 2:09 AM PDT

for hurricanes?

Apparently not or you wouldn't be putting your hoof in mouth.

NAGIN dropped the ball and trying to shift the blame is dishonest.
http://www.cityofno.com/portal.aspx?portal=46&tabid=26


You might also find the following enlightening - the following is quoted from http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/9/3/152800.shtml (but since I know you find problems with that source I will offer the following also http://www.wwltv.com/local/stories/091904ccktWWLIvanFlaws.132602486.html )
Saturday, Sept. 3, 2005 3:01 p.m. EDT
AP Warned of New Orleans Disaster


Just last year the Associated Press predicted all of the failures that have became part of the Katrina tragedy - but the story was about another hurricane, Hurricane Ivan.

When Ivan aimed its fury at the Big Easy, the AP detailed what could happen if the hurricane slammed into New Orleans.

In the case of Ivan, serious problems were caused by a lack of planning for a cataclysmic storm, yet with Katrina on the horizon, the lessons of Ivan were all but forgotten.

A feckless state governor and New Orleans' mayor repeated the same mistakes they made with Ivan, and hundreds of thousands of largely poor people were forced to endure conditions that one associates with the Third World - not the richest nation on the planet.


This following was a quote in 2004 during Ivan from the AP source above and it sounds EXACTLY like much of what is being said today:

"They say evacuate, but they don't say how I'm supposed to do that," Latonya Hill, 57, said at the time. "If I can't walk it or get there on the bus, I don't go. I don't got a car. My daughter don't either."

Advocates for the poor were indignant.

"If the government asks people to evacuate, the government has some responsibility to provide an option for those people who can't evacuate and are at the whim of Mother Nature," said Joe Cook of the New Orleans ACLU.


Only a diehard Bush Basher would even consider failing to place the blame at the feet of those Louisianna Officials who were actually responsible and whose failure to act had a snowball effect that directly affected what happened later and the speed (or lack) with which it was able to happen.

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And besides that...
by null. / September 5, 2005 4:08 PM PDT

the SOE issued clearly says the response is under the control of the STATE

IOW - FEDERAL permission not granted.

SECTION 2: The state of Louisiana's emergency response and recovery program is activated under the command of the director of the state office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness to prepare for and provide emergency support services and/or to minimize the effects of the storm's damage.

Oops, then all the communication goes out and the screams for FED help cannot be heard. Just a storm too late.
Sorry for that


Don Erickson
California Republican and very proud of it!

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No, I wasn't wrong...
by Edward ODaniel / September 4, 2005 7:39 AM PDT

although it would appear that Manuel Roig-Franzia and Spencer Hsu, Washington Post Staff Writers, were.

The cited article has been updated with a correction since posting.

In addition, the main thrust of my post was that it was the MAYOR's responsibility and duty to initiate any evacuation and to have planned for evacuation prior to the emergency--he failed to do so adequately and that is not Bush's fault nor was it FEMA's fault.

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corect about the poor prep....
by grimgraphix / September 4, 2005 8:08 AM PDT
In reply to: No, I wasn't wrong...

Sorry. I was just getting tired of all the rants about time and dates... your post was not offensive... just had the date wrong... did not mean to single you out so I hope no offense taken.

Still, as a question to raise about responsibility ... according to FEMA's web site. the Governor declared a state of emergency on the 26th of which FEMA was notified and put on alert.

The mayor of NOLA declared a mandatory evac on sunday the 28th, giving a city of 500,000 less than 24 hours to skeedadle.

The levee broke monday night/tuesday morning the 30th.

The magnitude of the emergency became apparent by wednesday the 31st. La.'s gov. finally contacts other states for help.

General Honore' walks the streets of NOLA on Thursday.

mr brown and mr chertoff (homeland security now controls fema) were on TV saying they had heard "rumors" of people trapped at the NOLA convention center and knew of the Superdome on Thursday sept 1st.

Bush flies over mississippi and parts of NOLA on thursday.

Full evacuation by the feds begins on friday sept 2nd.

It strikes me as odd that the federal authority still needed a day from the first to the second to begin moving from first assessment of the situation. I mean FEMA had been notified on the 26th of the state of emergency. Did they not see what was coming?

Not Bush bashing but even he has gone on record that the federal response was "unacceptable". So why the rush to place blame solely on the local authority? This is a tragedy that has taken years to develope.

grim

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"So why the rush to place blame solely on the local author..
by EdH / September 4, 2005 8:19 AM PDT

Because that's where it belongs?

I don't think anyone is "solely" blaming the local authorities but clearly they are mostly to blame and they and the media have been blaming Bush.

That's why.

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(NT) (NT) so its really a rush to defend Bush?
by grimgraphix / September 4, 2005 8:22 AM PDT
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A rush to tell the truth!
by EdH / September 4, 2005 8:27 AM PDT

in the face of liberal. OK?

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(NT) (NT) liberal lies I meant
by EdH / September 4, 2005 8:28 AM PDT
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(NT) (NT) OK
by grimgraphix / September 4, 2005 8:34 AM PDT
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No, but let's look again at Nagin
by Edward ODaniel / September 4, 2005 10:01 AM PDT
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interesting article
by grimgraphix / September 4, 2005 10:56 AM PDT

this raises the question of what was different from last year to this. With the governor raising the warning on friday and nagin waiting till sunday it sure makes him look culpable.
I tend to look at the issue as a problem with the whole support system.

I like the opinions expressed by the guy from direcnic who's been blogging this whole time from downtown NOLA.

''''''The government is never equipped to handle a crisis like this. There's too much bureaucracy -- initiative-stifling bureaucracy which prevents swift, effective action.... If you want me to blame something besides the storm herself, I blame the nature of government in the first place. It's too big, it's too slow, it's too inefficient, it's too bloated, and it's too intiative-stifling to be effective in normal circumstances, much less in a disaster. It's a systemic issue, more than an issue of individual people in government.''''''

http://mgno.com/

maybe thats why the military gets the job done so much better in this type of situation. they are in the business of defining a goal and accomplishing it without the quagmire of bureaucracy and politics

check out the link.
grim

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More interesting...
by Edward ODaniel / September 4, 2005 11:55 AM PDT
In reply to: interesting article
Saturday, Sept. 3, 2005 3:01 p.m. EDT
AP Warned of New Orleans Disaster

Just last year the Associated Press predicted all of the failures that have became part of the Katrina tragedy - but the story was about another hurricane, Hurricane Ivan.
...

A feckless state governor and New Orleans' mayor repeated the same mistakes they made with Ivan, and hundreds of thousands of largely poor people were forced to endure conditions that one associates with the Third World - not the richest nation on the planet.

The disaster in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina will come as no surprise to those who recall a September 19, 2004 Associated Press report.

Wrote the AP: "Those who had the money to flee Hurricane Ivan ran into hours-long traffic jams. Those too poor to leave the city had to find their own shelter - a policy that was eventually reversed, but only a few hours before the deadly storm struck land."

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/9/3/152800.shtml
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hmmmmmmm
by Glenda / September 4, 2005 4:52 AM PDT

NO has a black governor a black Mayor and I believe both are Democrats, Now why don't you tell us WHY they didn't have a plan to take care of their own people? Were they so unaware of the plight of the old poor and infirm?

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Shocking news! The poor are worse off than the rich!!!
by EdH / September 4, 2005 5:06 AM PDT

Dave,

It was the responsibility of LOCAL AUTHORITIES to come up with an evacuation plan for their poor citizens. What don't you get about that?

BTW it's Eleanor Clift.

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Notice what Dave's doing....
by J. Vega / September 4, 2005 5:16 AM PDT

Notice what Dave is doing. He's saying that if you are in NOLA and black you are poor. Many are, but not all. Seen that much played heart-breaking fotage with the man with the 2 kids that lost his wife as he was holding her hand when the house split into? Some black poeope have houses, Dave. That man may not have had as nice a one as you, but must you cast him as poor (and inferior in your eyes)? Dave, why do you keep using the word "anglo"? I'm from NOLA, and although it's been a while since I was there I don't seem to remember it's use as being all that common.

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