Panasonic 50PZ800U = Perfection

hey, so after the sony, you're gettin another display? sounds fun. J&R... you live in NY? Isnt that in NY?

Have you considered front projection?

I HIGHLY RECOMMEND IT!.

I would check out Epson 1080UB, or variants, Pana ae-2000u. Perhaps BenQ or Optoma to save some money. Used classifieds. Etc.

If you go big screen, or have poor light control, or long throw, and can maintain the viewers to remain in roughly 20 degrees from center... High Power screens are very effective, and actually quite affordable.

just an option* total costs are about the same as a nice 50-60" plasma, or thereabouts. If you step up to Kuro price points, you can afford JVC RS-1 + screen. Well, I'm never going back!!!

j

I've seen some of your posts on FP's. Your passion almost makes me want to get one lol.

Unfortunately, the logistics of an FP are not practical for me. I can control the lighting in my living room to some degree, but having to watch TV in dim lighting all the time is not appealing to me. Mounting an overhead and connecting it to my existing components is another problem. Not an unsolvable one, but definitely not ideal.

Aside from the usual complaints about bulb replacement costs, in all honesty I don't particularly like some of the picture quality drawbacks of FPs. Most notably the black levels. I know that just like every other TV tech, that some models have better black level than others, but because of the nature of the FP technology, much like LCD, the use of a back light will prevent it from ever having great blacks. There is just no way around it. Unless you can control lighting at the pixel level like a plasma or LED set, there is just no way to have both a bright image and great blacks. They are also not as crisp to me image wise.

Now from a cost standpoint, FP is extremely tempting. The idea of having a 100" "TV", and not having to pay the cost of a BMW, is very attractive lol.

The UA that I go to has 1080p DLP FPs in some of the cinemas. They usually dedicate them to a few of the new releases. They have separate show times for the DLP versions. The difference is quite staggering and I make sure that I catch the DLP versions whenever I go to the movies (Pirates 3 and Iron Man were considerably memorable lol). A real treat for the eyes.

Kudos on your set-up. If I remember correctly, you have it set-up in a dedicated HT room. Sounds sweet. For me though, I don't think I would get as good use out of it in my living room set-up as you do in your HT room though. Definitely a little envious on some level

Mike,

I have an ongoing movie club, and outside of that, I entertain a lot at my home. Ive had probably 30 different guests overall since gettin FP is my guess. EVERY one of them says it is superior to the theater.

The last guests were here a couple of days ago. One movie buff had just seen Iron Man that very same day. After deciding on a movie to throw on, Batman Begins was chosen. It has good PQ, but it honestly doesn't even break top ten in my collection in this regard. I asked him how it compared to his Iron Man experience (which he was gushing about). I was apprehensively prepared to wince, but he says my system was clearly superior. I said, "REALLY?. He nodded very quickly.

Black levels? Go JVC man. The blacks are sick. Ok, on paper they aren't as good as Kuro for sure, nor have the 3k+:1 ANSI. But it does have 15k:1 on/off native w/o iris.

I have two small complaints with my setup, and they definitely nothing to do black level, pop, or brightness.

1st is large scale pans. Remember though, im at 159", no tab-tensioned. There is some sort of blur. But large scale pans are not very common. Ok, they are more common in No Country for old Men, but in Ratatouille the only large scale pan is when Remy discovers he is in Paris. It lasts for a few seconds.

Because my screen is so enormous, there is a wave effect. The inconsistency of the flatness of my screen is an upright V thru the screen. This effect is even more rarely seen, and again just happens in large scale pans. If you have tab tensioning, or even better, a fixed mount, you will never suffer this.

I had to get the simple kind of roller mech, because I wanted it this big, and with high power gain of 2.8x. daLite HP has glass beads emulsified to be able to do. Sounds expensive? not really, i think 120" is about $300. Hp is stiffer, more resistant to waves.

TBH, my setup has the very best black levels I have ever seen. However, I never considered asking my local BB to turn off all the lights.

Im giong to repeat the above. The black detail is nothing short of spectacular IMO. It is the best I have ever seen no matter what the display. I know that's not *possible*, and so it must simply because the setups are never ideal. Or calibrated. Or whatever. The image, IMO, is so crisp. Again, not as good as best plasmas, on paper, but still superior to the movie theater to every person I know.

Yea, tv is bad idea. Bulb costs. Ambient light. This is why I recommend people to get a cheap 37"-42" at $500-1000, and have a pull down screen. Total costs are the same as hi end Kuro anyways. ya know, people are always asking about getting great pic, afraid of burn-in, etc, but the ideal solution is available IMO.

To connect the PJ, just run a monoprice HDMi. Very affordable. You can build your own PJ mount, or put it on bookshelf, etc.

Envious? If you can't beat em.... JOIN EM!!!!

-jostenmeat

that your FP has great black level. The one caveat that I would say, that you probably wouldn't, is that it has great black level for an FP.

Not knocking your set-up. I'm sure it's great. And again. very jealous of your screen size lol. But even if I saw an FP, and to my eyes it looked darker than the darkest Kuro, I still wouldn't believe that the black level is that good, because my mind knows that that is physically not possible lol. And the only way to get the best PQ with an FP is to watch it with the lights off. I don't mind watching movies with the lights off, but I'd like to have the option.

If you have a dedicated room for the FP, than it can be worth it, but if i have to buy a plasma just to watch TV and have my PJ screen cover it when I want to watch movies, getting the best plasma and watching both on it makes the most sense to me.

159"?! *******

when accounting for personal tastes and ideals. regarding black levels, i already said that its not possible. just stating my extremely limited personal experiences.

you can buy a nice luxury coupe, and have a nice smooth ride, and let er rip when you want.

or for the same money, or just a tad more, you can have a dedicated sports car when you want it, and the daily cruiser as well.

honestly, almost all tv signals that ive seen are wasted on a kuro. nothing less than movies (read: bluray) will touch its potential anyways. though i think the same way for my setup, you get my point.

actually, nm, you're probably right. its all about viewing distance. if i was only 5 ft away from display, and had minimal viewers, i would also opt for Kuro. however, i seat 8. yes, i agree that im a *******.

Kuro's look sick, no doubt about it. go for it i say... i just wanted to make sure that you considered my option, and it appears you have

I am planning to buy 800U and BD30K this week but I am still waiting for any comment on the new release 850U.

I don't doubt that the Panny looked much better with a real source. That's the reason that I went on my little expedition to unearth a store that had it hooked up to something meaty lol.

I didn't get a chance to try PC yesterday but I will again. If all else fails, the CC rep assured me that when they get the 58" 800U in, that it will take the spot of the 58" 700U that they have on display, which is hooked up to a BD player.

I'm not really concerned about the 800U being a stellar plasma. Panasonic makes great plasmas, although I don't love them as much as most people do. I am mainly curious to see how the THX mode fairs, and again, in my experience, it didn't fair well.

The feed was crap and the lighting was bright at CC, but I don't know how much of an excuse that is at this point. Number one, plasmas are not as bright as flat panel LCDs, but they are plenty bright, and the lighting in-store was not enough to wash out an RPTV, let alone a plasma (there were still a few SXRDs and DLPs on display). Number two, it was right next to the PN A550, running the same feed, and by just putting the 550 on Movie mode with no tweaking, it looked significantly better in every way. Number three, on the very same 800U, on the Video mode that was professionally calibrated by a Panny rep, it looked significantly better than the THX mode, running the same crappy feed, in the same crappy lighting.

I'm not willing to right off the THX mode yet because maybe it was adjusted for dark room viewing, and it needs tweaking. Or maybe it was on home THX mode versus in-store, or vice versa. Or maybe there is just something that I am missing. What I do know is I was really hyped about the THX mode specifically, and that, not necessarily the TV itself, has been a big letdown thus far.

I would appreciate it if you could do me with my investigation Gabe. I would be very interested to know if you could hook up the BD player to the PN 550 (assuming there is one on display), put it on Movie mode, and tell me whether you think that the image of the 800U on THX mode, is $1000 better.Very interested to hear about your findings.

As for the Pioneer's, the 20 series is out. I don't know if you got them in yet, but it is definitely something. Even on a... ahem... crappy cable feed lol.

but I will take a look at the samsung a550 plasma for you, I am off the next two days and its very hard to do anything over the weekend, so It might take me a few days to do it.

just look for the model # and BD player in the forum's main page.

Gabe

Dave the reviewer said he tweaked the contrast up to like 80 or something on the THX setting. I had a 46PZ85u for about 28 days and a 42PZ80u before that (which I exchanged for the 46) for a few weeks before that and it's an odd thing about the Panasonic plasmas, but all the other settings are way, way dimmer than the custom setting, even if all the contrast and brightness settings are identical, if that makes any sense.

I exchanged the 46PX85u for the Samsung 650 "Touch of Color" 120hz LCD and, frankly, the Sammy sucks. It's not that the Sammy sucks, it's just the LCD really can't hold up against plasma. It's like watercolors versus oils, to use a paint analogy. There's just not as much detail the 120hz setting looks ridiculous.

so, back to the exchange drawing board. Poor Best Buy!

However, I'm immensely tortured now by the difference between the 800 and the 850. Why would Panasonic make a step up model that wasn't just the same TV with more features, in this case the internet connectivity (which I will, never, ever, ever use)? The 850 has come additional color circuitry that the 800 doesn't have--but it doesn't have the THX mode. Damn you, Panasonic! Why must you create this aditional uncertainty?

And Damn you, Cnet, for not also reviewing the 850! Help, Katzmeir, help!!!!!

I will say, finally, that I wholeheartedly agree with the Cnet review of the 46PZ85. Using their setting on the tip, the picture was great, but the video noise on that TV is just absolutely unendurable. I have an Oppo 981HD upconverting DVD player and the same signal going into the Samsung is just so, so much cleaner. However, as a whole the LCD is a massive step down from plasma. Dave the reveiwer said that the 800 had the same video noise that the 85 does on the "custom" setting and it's only in THX mode that the video noise is gone. Sigh!

Dave! What about the 850, man?

As long as you are trying all of the TVs in the showroom, I would definitely give the A550 a shot lol. Seriously though, the image was pretty sweet.

As far as the 800U, did you see it and rule it out already, or have you not tested that one out yet? I wasn't impressed with THX mode thus far but I don't know that I gave it the fairest of fair shots yet so I am keeping an open mind.

After seeing how THX performed versus the professionally calibrated mode at CC, what you said about the custom mode and every other mode, and about Dave Katz ratcheting the contrast on THX up, does shed a lot of light on why THX with no tweaking looked so damned gray and dim. I will check out Katz' settings before I go view the TV again and see if that yields a better result.

No, I didn't try the Samsung plasma. Or even look at it, really. I felt there was no need. Actually, and much to my surprise, I've found Dave Katz's reviews to be quite insightful and accurate--and his "tip" calibrations really make a huge difference. The 650 at home right now is set up EXACTLY like his recommendation and it does look probably as good as an LCD can look.

However, I do recall that with the 46pz85 there were moments which literally took my breath away--and I miss that. Plasma is just capable of a picture so much better than LCD that it's absurd. LCD is like the world's best illustrator using the world's best Sharpies. Plasma is an artist with paint.

I'm probably going to buy the 850, just because BB has it on sale for the same price as the 800 and I'm stupid. Alas.

WHY the custom mode is so much brighter--and noisier--than the other settings/presets on the Panasonic plasmas is anyone's guess. I mean, I would toggle to the "movie" mode, which had the contrast at 100 and the brightness at 58, and it would be dimmer, amazingly way dimmer, than the custom mode at 64 and 60, respectively. Strangest thing. I wish someone could explain that.

But yeah, I sold TVs for six years and I remember occaisionally taking home calibration discs for the ol' Panaflat 27" and just being grossed out. so murky. I can't picture anyone ever looking at that image and saying "yeah, baby".

That's right I am still waiting for CNET rating on the 850U.
I am not sure which one is better between the 800U.

I know! I need Davey the K to rate it if for no other reason than so i can get his calibrated settings! They made all the difference in the world on the 85u; it's just too bad that the 85u has such hideous video noise and false contouring (the Samsung 650 is way, way better on those points but unfortunately, it's not a plasma).

Studio Reference Mode? Pro setting? Digital Cinema color? The 850 has all of these whereas the 800 does not. But the 800 has THX which the 850 does not. I could just kill Panasonic for this, I really could. They're mainly flaunting the VIERAcast on the 850, which I really don't care about, but there's enough difference in the video circuitry to make me suspicious.

Davey the K!!! Hear our pleas!! Review the dang 850u!!!

Does anyone on here know how to email Cnet?

I mean, ctuy, there is absolutely no reason to suspect that Cnet WILL review the 850u, unfortunately. Ack!

Dang....I am planning to buy this week. This is supposed to be my first plasma. I dont need the Viera Cast--so I think I will go for 800U(50 inches). My sister has the Sony 52XBR and she like it. My other sister has TH50PZ85U --and they like too.

Maybe Dave K. will read these posts and come to our rescue! If the 850 was the 800 plus VIERACast I would buy the 800 without hesitation, having no use myself for the VIERACast. But I find it impossible--impossible--that the higher ended TV won't have a better picture than the lesser model, THX or no THX and right now BB has them both for the same price.

Dave Katz! Hear our call!!!!!

Regading your sister's Sony and her friends PZ80, well, I'm sure they love them, but.....the lower end Panas have atrocious video noise and the LCD is still an LCD. I didn't see the motion blur that everyone wails about until i was watching tennis and they were actually swatting yellow streaks around instead of yellow balls. Yech.

So do you think "Pro setting, Digital Cinema Reality and Studio Ref MOde" (which are not in 800U)--are better than THX mode?
Those are the only difference between the 850 and 800 and the "Cast".

What I think, ctuy, or more accurately, speculate, is that THX mode is just a present arrangement of the standard picture controls (brightness, contrast, tint, etc) in such a way that it hits the THX criteria. Like, if you had the TV calibrated professionally by an ISF technician, those calibrations are going to be reflected in the picture settings, right? I mean, the TV can't do more than it can do. However, the 850 has the Digital Cinema Color which seems to be a higher level of color gradients available than on the 800.

Who knows?

It's possible that Panasonic just put THX on the 800 because otherwise very few people would be willing to pay the enormmous price difference between the 850 and the 85u for "a better picture" and VIERAcast. What I'm trying to say is that if there was no 800 and only the 850 had the THX, Panasonic would probably not sell as many because people would just see the VIERACAST and dismiss it as being "bells and whistles" and stick with the 85. I'll bet Panasonic sells more 800s than 850s, even if they're the same price, because people--like me, for example--are willing to pay $1100 more for the definitively killer plasma picture. but is it?

What I guess I'm finally saying is: I bet the 850 looks better than the 800 if properly calibrated. Not professionally, just with the user picture controls. It has an adjustable white balance like the Samsung 650 and a broader color palette. but I'm just speculating; I can't be sure about that.

Davey the K to the rescue!!!!

Dave Katz said that he is reviewing the 850U. He had a blog last week with a list of the TVs that he is going to be reviewing soon. He also asked for requests of what TVs people wanted to see reviewed. Not sure if he will actually listen though, but it's worth a try lol.

I don't have the link, but I'm sure if you search for it you will find it.

Not sure if he will review the 850U as soon as you want, but hang in there lol.

Jack, give the Samsung plasmas a chance. I think you'll be surprised.

You can email Dave katz? How do you do that?

Maybe i have to wait until next week. Hopefully they can release their review on the 850U soon. I checked the Panasonic website and they dont have the 58 inches for 800U and 850U model.

won't be available until mid to late August.

My CC and J&R have them on order already.

Ctuy, which did you pick, the 800 or the 850? I was at Best Buy again last night and it's strange but the THX mode just has a clarity that I can't seem to duplicate in the custom or standard modes no matter how much I try, almost like it's a higher resolution. I would give anything to see an 850 in person.

I still waiting for Dave review's on the 850U. I went to Best Buy and Circuit City last weekend but they dont have the 850U. I emailed Panasonic to find out which one is better and they recommend me the 800U. The 60 inches Sony (projection) that I am using right now is almost dead ( picture tube is soo blurry).
So you are impressed with the 800U?

Ctuy

It's strange, but don't you just hate them for the way they're doing this thing? Usually, when you step up in models the more expensive models RETAIN ALL THE FEATURES of the lower end models and just add more stuff, right? I'm betting that Panasonic was afraid they wouldn't sell enough VIERAcast or something. Who knows. I do know that in my extensive 800u tests at Best Buy, the THX setting seemed to do things that weren't possible with the regular settings--it even had better edge detail! How is that possible? I'm not sure what the benefit of "120% of the available colors needed for movie reproduction" means, I strongly suspect that "studio reference mode" just looks like flat, murky crap* and that if I professionally calibrated my 850u in "pro setting" mode--at best it would look like THX on the 800! wow.

*I mean, studio reference mode says that it reproduces EXACTLY, without modification, what's on the original signal. Well, isn't that also the EXACT STATED GOAL of THX mode??????

I'm finding that I'm leaning more and more toward the 800 over the 850. However, where to buy it? Would you order online and save $600 over Best Buy--and take your chances--or buy from BB or CC? I will say that I had a TH46PZ85u from Circuit City; well, two of them actually, because the first one I got had a defective left speaker straight out of the box. What would happen if I got one from one of the recommended online places on c/net and it was defective? Argh.

I checked cnet website day and night to find out if Dave K. review the 850U and unfortunately i think he doesnt have time to do it.
I am soo ready to buy but cant decide which of the 800U or 850U.

I am planning to buy Blue ray too but Panasonic will release the DMP-BD50 in July or August ( I just called them). I dont know if I cant wait that long--I might buy the BD30K.

CTUY