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General discussion

OS X Install disks (Tiger)

Apr 15, 2007 9:51AM PDT

So I ordered Tiger CDs from AppleRescue for my G4 PowerPC, because someone or several someones in the Mac forums recommended them for software. In the first set three out of four of the disks were defective, including the first one. (The computer couldn't load them and finally spit them out.) AppleRescue sent me a new set, but Install Disk 1 seems to have big problems. Or maybe not. I'd like some advice before I go back to AppleRescue with my tale of woe and ask them either to refund my money (but I'm not sure they'll do that) or send me another disk.

Here's the story:

The disk loads, but Norton Antivirus, which checks disks automatically, reports (at the very end of the scanning process) an error in a file that seems to have a few numbers and lots of symbols and what look like Greek letters.

I then used Disk Warrior, which reported that it had repaired serious errors and made an optimized replacement directory, but of course, it couldn't replace the old directory, because the disk is locked.

The Finder (this is still in OS 9.2.2 on my G4 desktop Mac--the kind with a tower) reports an "error of type -35.

Norton's Speed Disk mentions "light" fragmentation, and the image has various white spaces in it. Again, I can't optimize the disk, because it is locked.

Norton Disk Doctor (I know that mrmacfixit scorns it, but it can be informative) reported a major error,"No blessed folder, but there appears to be a System Folder (16,1,19)." Also minor errors in Applications:Utilities: Contents Resources. There are three of those. It reported bundle bits being off, System Library Fonts (Helvetica TMM and Times TMM) and something to do with Japanese.

When the disk opened on the desktop, I couldn't open "Read Before You Install" because it said that it couldn't be used "with this version of the Mac OS or there is a problem with" (the file? the disk?). It suggests reinstalling the OS package, but of course, I haven't done that yet.

I expect you're going to tell me to get AppleRescue to send me yet other disks, and that's what I ordinarily would do, although so far, --between writing to them and the disks arriving--it's taken weeks even to get this far. What I was wondering is whether this truly is a function of a wonky disk or maybe something else. With the first set of disks, it was all clear; with this one, and only one of the four disks having a pout, I thought there might be another explanation or that what is being reported won't either harm my computer or keep me from using the OS successfully.

One more thing: I trusted that what I'd be getting was a proper set of Apple disks, and it's represented as such and as a universal version of the OS. The "X" on the disks is grey, though. Does that mean that what I got isn't altogether as it should be? I wasn't being stingy; I just thought that because they came from a source known to some of you, they could be relied on.

Sorry this is so long. I just am hoping that having the entire narrative will allow you to give me (once again) your fine advice.

Please don't tell me, anybody, that it serves me right for not getting a new Mac. (I imagine you chafing, Pete, at the idea of my still not having sprung to an Intel Mac, but I know it's kindly meant.) I'm going to do that sometime after Leopard comes out and any little problems it may have are worked out. I also am under a lot of time pressure, so I didn't want to have to make a decision without being free to think it through and to have the time necessary for upgrading the rest of my hardware. What I have now is quite old, but apparently, Tiger has drivers for the printer, at least, and probably for the rest of the stuff. I can therefore apply my time and money to upgrading the software I shall need now, apart from OS X, and get the rest later. It's a lot to do, even without going to Intel.

Thank you in advance for your advice. I hope I won't have to get back to AppleRescue (lovely people, but I'm getting discouraged), but at least, I'll have some idea of whether what is wrong (if something really is wrong) requires that or I can safely install the OS without harming anything or missing anything important.

Ever appreciative of these forums,

jenny

Discussion is locked

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Just tell me one thing. (please)
Apr 15, 2007 10:01AM PDT

Are these factory made CDs or CDR copies?

Bob

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CDs or CDRs?
Apr 15, 2007 12:21PM PDT

Bob,

Honestly, I don't know, but I assumed that they were Apple CDs. I certainly didn't make them, and I wouldn't have ordered them if I had thought they were copies. Any way I can find out? I suppose I could ask AppleRescue, but would they tell me? All I can say is that they have a large X (that is, standing in for "ten") that covers almost the entire middle of the disk, the Apple logo to the left of the X and "Tiger" on the first line to the right of the X, "Mac )S X Version 10.4" on the second line and
"CD 1 of 4," "CD 2 of 4," etc., depending on which disk it is. It certainly looks authentic, but I'm not well enough acquainted with such things to know. I do know that they are advertised as full versions of OS X, not just a particular update, such as 10.4.5, for example.

Is that enough information? Too much? I appreciate your help but really didn't know how to answer your question knowledgeably. I hope this does the trick.

Thanks.

Jenny

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Thanks for looking. Try this.
Apr 15, 2007 12:49PM PDT

Look at the other side. It should be "silver". If you look at and compare such to CDR material you should become a fast expert at telling the difference.

While rare I can't count how many times an OS CD is on CDR and sometimes that leads to boot issues.

Once that's out of the way we try a CD lens cleaner and another drive.

Bob

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Trty this (report)
Apr 15, 2007 11:56PM PDT

The back of the disk is "silver." Thanks for the heads-up.

Next, I tried the disk in my G3 laptop (not going to install OS X there), and it loaded just fine.

Last, when you speak of "lens cleaner," I assume that all lens cleaners are the same? (That is, all made for cleaning lenses in CD/DVD drives.) I want to be sure I've got the right product the first time out. I've already spent a lot of time getting to this point.

I did think about the possibility that the lens was dirty, even though every other disk has functioned just fine, so long as the disk was OK. (Great minds, eh? Except that this one--mine--is woefully ignorant about engrossing subject of computers, and yours is packed full of great information.) It would be really super if it turned out to be as simple as a dirty lens.

Thanks again.

Jenny

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Here's one I use.
Apr 16, 2007 12:32AM PDT
http://www.amazon.com/Allsop-56500-CD-Laser-Lens-Cleaner/dp/B00000J1QK

Sorry but I thought I'd share one I use. You can find them all over. There was a time people thought it would damage the lens but use at once a year here hasn't killed a drive yet. And we use this everytime we see disk read or drive problems since an owner would be peeved if we replaced a drive and they tested it later and the drive just needed the dust knocked off the lens.

Bob
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Is this one OK?
Apr 18, 2007 1:36PM PDT

Hello, Bob,

The Allsop cleaner you mentioned is indeed all over the Web as well as at Amazon, but when I was looking for a cleanser in stores (before I saw your message), the only one I found was one from Staples (CD/DVD drive cleaner, Item number 493805), which the guy there told me was what I was looking for. (BestBuy was out of whatever one they usually carry.)

I'm glad to buy the Allsop, but I've been working against time--first, because if it turns out that the seeming-to-be-wonky OS X disk really can't be cured by cleaning the CD/DVD drive, the longer it takes me to find that out, the less credible I'll seem to AppleRescue, if I try to get a replacement disk or to get my money back--which I believe they don't do. Second, I did buy the Staples disk, so I was wondering whether you or anyone else knows anything about it. Obviously, if it is fine, it will save time over waiting for an Allsop disk to come in the mail and save me from having to return the disk I bought to Staples. On the other hand, I want to get a disk that will improve the drive's efficiency not damage it.

Too bad I wasn't at home to read your message before I got the Staples disk, and too bad I haven't found a physical store that has it, but maybe it's really fine, anyway. If not, I shall, of course, order the Allsop online.


Sorry this is a little discursive (and possibly, repetitive, though I can't say without going back to edit). It's getting late, and last night was not a great one for sleeping. Nothing exciting: My poor mother was up quite a lot during the night, and so I was, too.

Many thanks for your thoughts on this. If anyone else would like to chime in (say, with experiences relating to the Staples disk), I would welcome that, too.

Best,

Jenny

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Some want to know what I have.
Apr 18, 2007 8:47PM PDT

But a rose by any other name is still a ....

A CD/DVD lens cleaner is just one of the things that's good to have if you deal with balky AudioCD, PlayStation, XBox, computer CD/DVD, and other such devices.

Bob

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It gets worse!
Apr 19, 2007 9:45AM PDT

Dear Bob,

Thanks for the tip, but when I put the Staples "rose" (the lens cleaner disk) into the drive, with the arrow pointing in the right direction, no voice istruction came on, contrary to what the directions said. Then, when I phoned Staples product support, the guy said that some "program" was supposed to have launched, so the audio instructions could be heard, and what did I use? He seems to have meant something like iTunes or another audio program. Well, nothing came on. Then he said he wasn't even sure that the disk would work with a Mac, even though I had been assured, in the Staples store, that it would. Meanwhile, the disk is gaily spinning and spinning in the drive. Strikes two and three for Staples. I have no idea whether the disk actually was cleaned, but probably, it was. I just hope that I didn't harm it with an unfit product.

I thought, though, that it might have done the job, anyway, and tried the offending Tiger Disk 1. Same error message as before.

I found out that I can get the Allsop lens cleaner at J&R, way down the pike, here in Manhattan, NYC. I want to do that at some point, just to have a lens cleaner, but I'm really thinking that it's the Tiger disk, not my disk drive that has a problem.

Funny thing is that I probably wouldn't have suspected a problem with the Tiger disk if I hadn't had my antivirus software set to check media inserted into my drives. Perhaps, it's a good thing that I did, though, because both DiskWarrior and the hated Norton Disk Doctor detected what they reckoned were major problems with the Tiger disk. Now, I guess I must go back (again!) to AppleRescue and throw myself on their mercy or make stern remarks about taking action of some sort (not really my style). I'd be afraid simply to use the disks as is and maybe come out with a worse situation than I have now--even though not having OS X is a real disability, owing to my needing to use some software that won't work with OS 9.

I'll check back here once more, just in case anyone has any further ideas. Barring that, I shall bid you all a fond, though temporary farewell and tempt the fates again--the fates being any chance of my getting a good disk and not having to buy a legit copy (who knew what I was getting wasn't one?) from Apple.

Thanks again to all for the kind words and advice. You've been super, but probably, I'll have to take it from here.

Ready to tear my hair out. It's been a long, long story and an even longer wait for success.

Jenny

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Allsop lens cleaner (more)
Apr 21, 2007 11:38PM PDT

Bob,

One more question. I turned in the Staples lens cleaner and got the Allsop one (yes the same one you use). It doesn't start any voice instructions. (I didn't hear the disk spinning, either, but maybe I'm not meant to.) Not a big deal, but I'd like to use it in my computer, and I wonder, too, if I used it in my audio CD player (the one among my compoents), how that would bring up any voice instructions. The Staples guy I spoke to at their product support line seemed to think that I needed some application such as QuickTime to launch, but an audio component doesn't have such things.

I hope you can shed some light on all this. Most particularly, if you have a suggestion (or more than one) for how to get around the apparent problem (or just use the disk without the voice part), I'd really appreciate that.

Thanks again. P is not the only one who deserves wings for patience, intelligible suggestions and all-around kindness.

Jenny

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I'm going to skip a few steps.
Apr 21, 2007 11:58PM PDT

If it's like mine just play it like an audio CD and let it play on track 1 to 4 for about 30 seconds each time. I don't know what you use for an AudioCD player so I can't be exact here.

Bob

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Playing the Allsop disk cleaner
Apr 23, 2007 1:39PM PDT

I'm not quite sure how to do that, but I'm sure I can figure it out. You forget, though, that I've just stepped out of the Mac Dark Ages. Also, you can't know that I've never played an audio CD in my computer--only in a CD component. Generally, when I put a CD of any kind into the drive, the necessary application just kicks in. Well, I expect that the thing to use is iTunes, which I've never used, or the Apple audio player. (I forget its name.) Of course, with a new OS, it all may have changed.

Thanks again.

Jenny

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From memory, with iTunes...
Apr 24, 2007 12:14AM PDT

Try to rip track 3. Well let it go for 20 or 30 seconds and then cancel it.

Bob

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OS X 10.4 Install DIsks
Apr 15, 2007 9:59PM PDT

Apple have been shipping the OS on DVD for some time now. All new machines come with their Restore disks, usually grey, on DVD and the purchased copy of 10.4, also on DVD, is Black.
I say this with certainty, having just purchased a copy for a customer.

If your installation disks are on CD, then they are a copy and "might" explain why you are having a problem booting.

You might want to get rid of Norton completely. It is more trouble than it is worth.

You would be better off, in the long run, purchasing a genuine copy of 10.4 from the Apple Store.

P

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A copy? Oh, dear
Apr 16, 2007 12:18AM PDT

Oh, dear. Isn't someone supposed to say that when you're buying this thing? And a reputable company, by all accounts? I'm stung, but I don't know how I could have known that: There are many places selling CDs of Tiger on Amazon and other venues, so I assumed they were equally good and as good as DVDs.

Fortunately, it's only one disk that is having the problem (or so it seems, just from what happened when I loaded them, experimentally, to my computer).


I know how you feel about Norton, and I shall get rid of it very soon. In this case I used it only because I supposed that it couldn't do any harm to a locked disk, and it does give specific information about what is wrong and where the problmes are. By the way, although I have the DiskGuard (or whatever it's called) for Disk Warrior set to "on," it never has alerted me to problems with my disk, whereas Norton has. Go figure! I do use Disk Warrior, though.

Regarding purchase of a copy of 10.4 from Apple, I am reluctant to do so, or I would have gotten one there in the first place. It's very expensive, and I hope to be using Tiger only for a short time. As I said, my computer's very old and slow, and I'd like to get a new Mac within a year, if I can. By that time, I believe, I'll have Leopard, making Tiger obsolete unless Leopard turns out to be a total bust. In addition, I'e just laid out the money for these disks. It's AppleRescue's stated policy to replace disks only if they are really damaged. There's not a word about refunds. Unless I want to open an investigation through my credit card company and make a fuss trying to get my money back (and I might not succeed), I'd be out that amount, plus having to pay Apple for the disks.

I appreciate your thoughts, but unless I really am forced to buy new disks (and can't get a new, working Disk 1 from AppleRescue), I shall hope for happier conclusion to this difficulty.

Maybe I'll follow Bob's suggestion and get a lens cleaner (hope it's not very expensive). I hate to take all this time, but I think you can see that I vastly prefer not to put a lot more money into my old Mac ans Tiger, and I can always use the lens cleaner again, whereas those will be going, I hope, to a recycling charity fairly soon.

I'll keep everyone posted.

Best,

Jenny

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Lens cleaner route
Apr 16, 2007 2:58AM PDT

seems like a decent step

P

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One more thing (my Tiger disk)
Apr 20, 2007 2:20AM PDT

As you may remember, I got that error message about my Tiger Disk 1 on my desktop G4 but not on the G3 laptop. I don't know the significance of that but hope that someone else might. More important, I was assuming that I couldn't expect to install Tiger safely with an error on the disk. Does that sound right? DiskWarrior reported damage on the disk but couldn't fix it, of course, because it's a locked disk.

I'd love to install Tiger now instead of having to take a chance that (1) AppleRescue actually will send me another disk or (2) that having laid out money for the disks I have now, I'll still have to get disks from Apple. I hate to do it, because I truly hope to have a new Mac pretty soon, and that one will use Leopard, not Tiger. The Tiger purchase could end up being a total loss, so I'd like not to have to have spent several hundred dollars for it.

This is getting discouraging, since I've no certainty that even if I could get a replacement disk, it will be any better than what I have now. I asked AppleRescue, the last time, to check the disks before they sent them, and maybe they did. If it weren't for the fact that DiskWarrior and other utilities did note damage, "light" fragmentation and such, II would think that it's just my G4 having hysterics, but it's disconcerting not to know.

Thanks for everything, you all,

Jenny

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Error message
Apr 20, 2007 2:41AM PDT

If the error message, from DW or Norton, forces the installer to quit then you are right.
If it does not, and all we are talking about is "light fragmentation", go ahead and install Tiger.
It will not mess up your OS 9 installation, unless you Format your drive first, so if it fails you can still boot into 9 and tell us all about it

P

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Check your shoulders for wings
Apr 20, 2007 6:22AM PDT

P,

You really are splendid! I shall try that and hope for the best. Although various resources reported problems of varying seriousness, you have a point: If it truly is a mess, the likeliest thing is that it won't install.

I certainly shall tell all of you--though in less cumbersome detail than I have to this point--what happens. I'll also get the Allsop lens cleaner, which is available at a store, way downtown. It can't hurt, and I can always use a lens cleaner. Getting a day's respite tomorrow from nursing my mum, and I plan to use it well.

Hoping to give you good news over the weekend. In the meantime, have a few lovely days, wherever you are. It is finally sunny and a little warmer here.

Jenny

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Not chaffing!
Apr 15, 2007 10:57PM PDT

I would not chide you about not having an Intel Mac, I don't have one myself!
Moving to OS X, now that's another story and I can see that you are starting the move now.

P

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Re: Not chaffing!
Apr 16, 2007 1:03AM PDT

No, P, of course, you weren't chaffing and wouldn't. That was just my feeble attempt at a joke on myself: I've taken so long to get OSX (do I have it, of does it have me?), and you've been nudging me, encouraging me, all along the way. You did allow, in another discussion, that maybe I should go whole hog and get a new Mac (certainly a friendly observation), so I just riffed a little on the idea. 'Nuff said.

My daughter and her family are moving--possibly, for good--to Edinburgh, another good reason to get a really nice new computer with a Web cam. Do all the new Macs have them, or just the laptops? Well, that's a subject for another time.

Best,

Jenny

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I almost don't want to ask
Apr 16, 2007 11:00AM PDT

Is Mumsie alright?
Have you/are you, moving her to OS X

P

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OS X and "Mumsie."
Apr 18, 2007 8:11AM PDT

Nice of you to ask, and except for having a rotten case of the flu (or some other virus)--which has necessitated my staying with her for several days--she's fine and pretty amazing for her age. No, I don't think that she wants anything to do with a new operating system or any other upgrade. Considering that she threatens, every now and then, to give up her laptop altogether (she won't), it might be pushing the envelope to try to get her to adjust. You don't understand how old this woman is, but consider that she began using a computer when she was 78, making me no young chick, either. (Yes, I know you're as young as you feel, making me about 34.) In addition, I am not at all sure that her dear little (but slow) G3 laptop would make the switch gracefully. Better just to let that go.

Many thanks to you and to Bob for the help. The time spent at my mother's has delayed things a bit, but I hope to get on with things really soon.

Jenny

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Glad to hear that she is doing well and
Apr 18, 2007 10:37AM PDT

keeping you in line.
Happy

P

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I recieved fake CDs!
May 2, 2007 4:22PM PDT

Hi,

I came across your post when doing research about AppleRescue and wanted to tell you of my experience. I believe this company intentionally sells professional looking copies of Mac OS software. Here is what happened to me:

I purchased (using PayPal) Apple software for my imac computer on 4/24/2007 from www.applerescue.com.The total with shipping included was $79.00. It was advertised to be Mac OS X Tiger 10.4 universal install disks (CD version not DVD) in a set of 4, no retail packaging. My computer does not have a dvd drive so I have to find the software and purchase on CD. I received my package from AppleRescue on4/28/2007by way of USPS First Class mail with delivery confirmation. Upon opening the padded envelope I discovered 4 disks in separate plastic thin CD cases, no other paperwork was included. the disks looked
strange, like too generic looking. The labels are white with an X (shades of gray) in the middle of the disk, small apple logo ( gray in color) on left side, lettering on right side says Tiger Mac OS X Version 10.4 CD 1 of 4 (1of 2 etc.). They felt like high quality paper labels. No Apple part numbers or any of the small printing that Apple normally puts on thier CDs. There was no licence paperwork that came with them. I filed a dispute through PayPal on 4/30/2007 and was notified several hours later by Paypal that AppleRescue refunded my money in full and added a note stating they(AppleRescue) were sorry for the problem wihout even asking me to return anything. I did email Apple about it but have heard nothing as of yet. I am usually very careful about who I purchase from on the internet. I did some research before I bought the CDs. I have heard of Apple rescue before and they have also been mention on numerous mac related websites and forums so I thought they were safe to buy from. I hate to make accusations but this is just feels wrong. I have also reported it to the BSA (business software allaince, they take piracy seriously) as well so hopefully someone will look into the matter so others won't get taken. If I were you I'm make a complaint to them and get your money refunded and if they do not comply please go to you credit card company and file a chargeback.

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Interesting
May 2, 2007 9:56PM PDT

Glad you got your money back on the deal.
As far as I am aware, Apple have stopped issuing OS X on CD's. I don't think they are even available by special order.
Any OS that comes on CD's must, in my opinion, have been copied.
The Unversal Tiger, 10.3.x, install disk is Black with a Silver X across it. White Apple logo at the top and an Apple part number on it.

BTW, you might want to consider purchasing a DVD burner for your machine, external or internal, they are very inexpensive and easy to install.

Thanks for the info

P

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Curious!
May 3, 2007 3:58AM PDT

First, when I was at the Apple Store's Genius Bar, the guy I consulted said nothing about the disks I had (like yours) being counterfeit. Second, AppleRescue just was mentioned in an article about places to get OS X Tiger. I believe that AppleRescue also has Tiger on DVD. I do have a DVD player but thought that the CDs would be good for when I finally get my new Mac -- a way off in time -- which would presumably have Leopard instead.

I really can't counter any of this except to say that I did manage to install Tiger, although there may be a few things not working ideally. I have written to AppleRescue and hope that they'll send me a new copy of the disk that had the problem. In the past they willingly sent me a whole set. I don't need that, but in light of their very obliging (and apologetic) behavior of the past, I may well end up with everything I need.

Regarding the manuals and such that usually come with Apple disks, it was explained to me that the manual is on the first installation disk and on the hard drive, once Tiger is installed. During installation I had to agree to the terms that Apple sets and set up my Mac with all the same things that I did with earlier versions of Mac OS. I'm not sure whether that shows anything, but I thought I'd share it.

The bottom line is that I don't know whether my disks are the real deal or not. Thanks for everyone's helpful participation.

jenny

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AppleRescue and reinstalling
May 5, 2007 1:52AM PDT

Feeling that unlike our fellow forum member, I'd never get my money back from AppleRescue, now that I've installed Tiger, I wrote to them about the wonky first disk. They were very nice and are sending me another Disk ! and have volunteered to send a whole new set if that doesn't work out. The disks may be bogus (and I wonder), but they certainly try to please their customers.

If that disk seems to be OK, I guess I'll reinstall both what is on there and the updates I downloaded. If there's any reason that I shouldn't do that, would somebody tell me, please?

Thanks for everything, folks!

jenny

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If you have already installed OS X
May 5, 2007 6:32AM PDT

then reinstalling it would serve no useful purpose.

If your first install went without problems, I don't mean the Disk Warrior/Norton dialogs, then OS X is as good as it gets.

How did you download the Updates? Via Software Update?

P