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General discussion

Once again, appalled but in no way surprised

Mar 4, 2004 12:14AM PST
http://www.wnbc.com/wtc/2896142/detail.html
http://www.iht.com/articles/508754.html

***
"It's as sick as people who stole things out of the place," Firefighter Tommy Fee, of Queens Rescue Squad 270, told the Daily News in Thursday editions. "The image of firefighters at ground zero should not be used for this stuff, for politics."
***

I hadn't expected bush's first campaign act to be the exploitation of tragedy, but I guess I was just being optimistic. He might as well have superimposed an image of himself sitting on the flag draped stretcher, grinning, waving his arms, and yelling 'vote for me', while his little legs swing playfully.

Dan

Discussion is locked

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You're projecting, Ed. It's a textbook example.
Mar 8, 2004 1:34AM PST

"A defense mechanism in which the individual attributes to other people impulses and traits that he himself has but cannot accept. It is especially likely to occur when the person lacks insight into his own impulses and traits."

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Glad to see you finally recognize that...
Mar 8, 2004 1:39AM PST

now go back and see how many times that has been pointed out to you. I just knew you could see it if others did but were too close to see it in yourself--you have taken that first step Dan.

Keep it up and maybe the topic can return to where it was before your attempted diversion.

Now we just have to work past the rest of your denial.

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The distance between you and reality is getting ever greater. -nt
Mar 8, 2004 1:43AM PST

.

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There goes that overactive imagination of yours again. -nt
Mar 8, 2004 8:28AM PST
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Rave on -nt
Mar 9, 2004 12:34AM PST

.

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No, your motivation is political...
Mar 5, 2004 7:50AM PST

and the hue and cry is not Bush politicizing the attack, but the Democrits such as yourself by making the ads seem more than they were--simple reminders of one of the key issues and that issue is the ability to act in such a situation.

Kerry has already demonstrated how much he vascillates and hesitates.

You don't want those victims who WANT this kept in front of the short attention span public so just how "compassionate" does that make you? Demonstrates your lack of any "moral sense" pretty well, especially when considered with your hypocritical stand on Iraq body counts.

Once again, it isn't Bush doing the politicizing, it is his detractors such as yourself.

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There was a shifty eyed ...
Mar 6, 2004 10:15PM PST

... Democrat political consultant on Fox & Friends this morning. She wouldn't look at the camera, everything about her body language said she didn't seem to believe her own words. Then it came ... she asked why there was no video of the flag draped coffins from Iraq.

There's been no end to Bush bashing during the primaries. I'm sorry, but a picture of an anonymous coffin in a commercial that reminds Americans of just what all we have come through under Bush's leadership is wholly appropriate. The ad talks about America turning the corner and moving forward. Kerry says Bush is scaring Americans. BS!

You want to talk disgusting exploitation of death, try the Byrd commercials ran against Bush in 2000. Now those were sickening.

Evie Happy

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Saw it and wasn't going to mention it because ...
Mar 7, 2004 12:28AM PST

it was just about unbelievable unless you did see it.

I can't hear and the lip reading sometimes results in minor errors in what I 'hear' (especially when they don't enunciate plainly) that I have to check up on to clarify.

Glad to see you saw it too.

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Re:Saw it and wasn't going to mention it because ...
Mar 7, 2004 1:45AM PST

I agree, it was a performance one would have had to see to believe. She did sort of catch herself at one point, but in the end couldn't help it! Now THAT was truly distasteful!

Evie Happy

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Re: flag-draped coffins
Mar 7, 2004 11:46AM PST

Hi, Evie.

I didn't see the interview, soi can't comment directly. But one of the three new Bush ads does have an image of a flag-draped coffin being carried out of the WTC "pit," which is a new low in poort taste fpor political ads (I only saw it tonight when I watched my tape of Friday's "McLaughlin Group;" it wasn't shown on NBC News, at least.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Re:Re: flag-draped coffins
Mar 7, 2004 8:45PM PST

The 9-11 coffins are of innocent Americans murdered by terrorists. Nobody is exploiting that or gloating over it. There was nothing tasteless about it in the context of the ads which referenced the "times" we as Americans have lived through. The Dems are just jealous that their candidate has no compelling case for leadership in the face of terror. Apparently the Democrats really do want that video of soldiers coffins to exploit Iraq war deaths for political purposes. That is sickening.

Evie Happy

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My personal gut feeling is;
Mar 8, 2004 2:19AM PST

I would like both Kerry and Bush to leave visual images of coffins and body bags out of the election. The message can be gotten across in other ways that would be less intrusive on others' grieving. As this thread shows, using dead bodies, by either side, is not the best way to run a campaign.

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Hear! Hear!
Mar 8, 2004 2:51AM PST

.

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Re: flag-draped coffins
Mar 8, 2004 11:56AM PST

Hi, Evie.

>>Apparently the Democrats really do want that video of soldiers coffins to exploit Iraq war deaths for political purposes. That is sickening.<<

Do you know the background? They brought the coffins back in broad daylight during VietNam, and on Fridays the news shows would show a shot of the coffins while giving the total dead to date. That had something to do with the country's growing distates for the war (though nonsensical statements like "we had to destory the village to save it!" had equally as much to do with it, as did the increasing reports of My Lai and other atrocities). Bush wants to sanitize this war, not just in terms of collateral damage (an effort which I applaud), but also in terms of trying to hide the cost under the cover of night. BTW, (and before you say it)I seriously doubt similar stories would have had any major impact in either WWII or Korea. But lots of people's attituide about VietNam were summed up in Country Joe and the Fish's "Feel Like I'm Fixin' To Die Rag:"
And it one, two, three,
What're we fighin' for?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn;
Next Stop is VietNam
And it' five, six, seven,
Open up the Pearly Gates.
Ain't no time to wonder why,
whoopee, we're all going to die!
(typed from memory, btw...)

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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(NT) Message has been deleted.
Mar 7, 2004 11:05PM PST
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Iraq body counts
Mar 7, 2004 11:06PM PST

What are you referring to?

Dan

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What gives you the
Mar 7, 2004 11:30PM PST

unmitigated gall to question my motives?

Just who do you think you are that you feel free to show such disregard for my feelings?

Dan

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So you don't like being 'treated' like you treat others?
Mar 8, 2004 1:23AM PST

grow up and if you can't take the heat don't light the fire.

I am free to question your motives just as you have been and have done for other's motives--this is not something that is only your prerogative Dan.

I am not now, nor have I ever been under any obligation to worry about your feelings just as you are not and have contentiously demonstrated so often.

If you don't like it, don't do it.

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You uncaring and proud of it.
Mar 8, 2004 1:29AM PST

I'm not surprised that you show the same absence of consideration for the family and friends of 9-11 victims that bush does.

Dan

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I (and Bush) have plenty of consideration--you appear to be situationally devoid however (NT)
Mar 8, 2004 1:34AM PST
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Bush's leadership ...
Mar 4, 2004 9:59PM PST

... post 9-11 has been outstanding in the eyes of most Americans and there is nothing wrong with reminding the voters of both 9-11 and his "job performance". Anything Bush does is going to offend some no matter what.

Sorry, but 9-11 is not just "owned" by the victim's families. The entire country was impacted by these attacks on our soil. There is nothing politicizing about the images of or mention of same in a campaign commercial. That there are no such similar pictures Kerry can dust off demonstrating HIS leadership abilities in the face of this tragedy is what this latest kerfuffle is all about.

Speaking of which, when I think President -- of anything -- I think *leadership* as the defining characteristic for qualification. Has Kerry ever shown any since the Vietnam era he wants to run this campaign on?

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Re:Bush's leadership ...
Mar 4, 2004 10:36PM PST

Anyone who can't see that this is a crass political use of a tragedy should reconsider their moral sense.

Dan

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There is nothing wrong with reminding people how his presidency
Mar 5, 2004 12:28AM PST

faced a crisis, pointing out where it started, and why the actions we are involved in today are in support of that. To imagine that an event which cost more lives than Pearl Harbor should be shelved somewhere during an election year is just disingenious and furthermore is dishonoring the chance to remember those who died and how it happened. Unlike the Liberals, I'm glad the events of 9-11 are not being shoved into the closet of forgetfulness some seem to favor.

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Not shoved in the closet
Mar 5, 2004 12:54AM PST

But not used for political theater, either.

Dan

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Exactly James - It keeps the American public focused on what we are up against in the West - well said NT
Mar 6, 2004 10:29PM PST

NT

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(NT) Message has been deleted.
Mar 6, 2004 10:31PM PST
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Dupe deleted. (NT)
Mar 7, 2004 3:46AM PST

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(NT) Message has been deleted.
Mar 5, 2004 12:31AM PST
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Re: Message deleted at James' request (NT)
Mar 5, 2004 2:14AM PST

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Anyone who thinks it is should reconsider theirs! (NT)
Mar 5, 2004 8:12AM PST