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General discussion

Once again, appalled but in no way surprised

Mar 4, 2004 12:14AM PST
http://www.wnbc.com/wtc/2896142/detail.html
http://www.iht.com/articles/508754.html

***
"It's as sick as people who stole things out of the place," Firefighter Tommy Fee, of Queens Rescue Squad 270, told the Daily News in Thursday editions. "The image of firefighters at ground zero should not be used for this stuff, for politics."
***

I hadn't expected bush's first campaign act to be the exploitation of tragedy, but I guess I was just being optimistic. He might as well have superimposed an image of himself sitting on the flag draped stretcher, grinning, waving his arms, and yelling 'vote for me', while his little legs swing playfully.

Dan

Discussion is locked

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(NT) Message has been deleted.
Mar 5, 2004 7:56AM PST
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PS to KP
Mar 5, 2004 2:24AM PST

And yes, I knew you were being facetious... But those courses were hard work! BTW, if you don't mind, would you please drop me a line at the SEmods address, so we have yours?

-- Dave K.
Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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I've got a better idea
Mar 4, 2004 10:46PM PST

You should reconsider your moral sense if you can't see that using victims for political gain is wrong.

Thanks,

Dan

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I don't think that's been done in this case. Apparently you do, but,
Mar 4, 2004 10:53PM PST

since your political bias is so obvious, I don't think you're in a position to make that moral judgement.

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It has been done.
Mar 4, 2004 11:08PM PST

Your moral judgment has failed you in this area. Perhaps you should remove the blinders you have concerning bush's activities.

It will be hard for you, but good luck.

Dan

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Re: I've got a better idea -- time-honored tradition.
Mar 5, 2004 2:19AM PST

Hi, Dan.

Can a tiger change its stripes? Surely you remember "Willie Horton?" Though on second thought, there they only showed Willie, not his victim...

-- Dave K.
Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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The better question. How many families of 9-11 victims appreciate Bush's punishment of those who killed their loved ones? [nt]
Mar 5, 2004 12:49AM PST

.

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Will that answer the families and friends of those who are offended? -nt
Mar 5, 2004 12:58AM PST

.

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Re: How many families appreciate...
Mar 5, 2004 2:30AM PST

Hi, James.

Surely you can see that those are two very different questions? I'm sure lots of victims' families (in lots of types of crimes) appreciate justice being done, but would be appalled by their loved one's grave being featured in a political ad. And that's how many families see the WTC, as was clear during the recent architectural competition from their adverse reactions to the site being returned to commercial use. If Bush had a campaign ad with someone talking about "he brought our country together and took the war to the terorists after the 9/11 attacks," there wouldn't be much criticism about "politicizing the tragedy." For all Karen Hughes' protestations, the way he chose to do it really is tasteless.

-- Dave K.
Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Re:Re: How many families appreciate...
Mar 6, 2004 8:28PM PST

I still haven't seen the ads, so can't comment directly on them.

Interesting thing about the victims objections I will mention. I'm working a midnight shift right now, and in the canteen snack machine room they normally keep CNN running. They've had families of dead in the towers on that were on both sides of the issue. So while the question of taste may be one that will vary for each person, I'm not sure without sometype of large survey of victims and families who can be said to be speaking for them.

Without some basis in numbers, having seen half dozen arguing on either side on CNN, I can't accept either as speaking for an overwhelming majority.

RogerNC

click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

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So, how many victim's families is it ok to offend? -nt
Mar 7, 2004 10:48PM PST

.

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The question is irrelevant Dan.
Mar 7, 2004 11:04PM PST

No one has set out to offend the families.

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Irrelevant to you, apparently. -nt
Mar 7, 2004 11:32PM PST

.

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I'd guess you'd say none?
Mar 8, 2004 8:17AM PST

But the question isn't so simple, since some of the families feel that it does good for the memory, to keep people from forgetting or dismissing what happened to their loved ones.

At least, that is what some on the bit of newscast I saw seemed to be saying. In that case, an blanket condemnation of the ads because they offend the victims is not entirely correct.

If we censor everything that someone claims offensive without exception, then we might as well shut this forum down now hadn't we? in fact, we might as well shut down our entire government, because everything about it offends someone.

As I said, I haven't seen the ads, so I didn't comment on them directly, just that there was disagreement among families of the victims as tho whether they were appropriate or not.

Looks like politics as usual by both sides to me.

RogerNC

click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

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And that door swings both ways...
Mar 5, 2004 7:35AM PST

some victims don't like while others do--whose rights are paramount?

The ads were tasteful reminders and it should be noted that the "nonpartisan" firefighters had already endorsed Kerry before thinking this supposed "offense" is not of a political and partisan nature.

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'supposed'
Mar 7, 2004 10:50PM PST

Are you saying that the family members who are saying they are offended by bush's outrageous behavior are lying? That is truly offensive.

Dan

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Have you been away? Long lapse to respond. (NT)
Mar 7, 2004 11:06PM PST

.

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Busy weekend (NT)
Mar 7, 2004 11:33PM PST

.

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Mar 8, 2004 12:47AM PST
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Mar 8, 2004 1:29AM PST
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Mar 8, 2004 1:40AM PST
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And how many that like them do you have to ignore to satisfy those...
Mar 5, 2004 7:31AM PST

who take offense?

Is 10% ok? 25%?

What's the limit?

After all, their desires are every bit as valid as those who are upset.

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Mar 7, 2004 10:53PM PST
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Mar 8, 2004 1:28AM PST
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Re: Key statement in your link is...
Mar 4, 2004 6:02AM PST

Hi, Ed.

The key point is that he's shown himself to be callous, and not terribly Presidential. Look at what Karen Hughes had to say (pun intended) on the morning news shows today:
Bush Campaign Defends Ads With 9/11 Images >>"With all due respect, I just completely disagree, and I believe the vast majority of the American people will as well..." Hughes said the ads are a tasteful reminder of what the country has been through the last three years. <<
Tasteful? According to whom? Anytime your campaign ads become a campaign issue, it's time to fire your media consultants!

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Oh come on Dave! The hate Bush crowd will make a campaign
Mar 4, 2004 1:01PM PST

issue out of the color of President Bush's shirt if they can.

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Re:Oh come on Dave! The hate Bush crowd will make a campaign
Mar 4, 2004 1:21PM PST
issue out of the color of President Bush's shirt if they can. - Kiddpeat

Why? What color is it??? Devil