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General discussion

OKEY EVERBODY........HERE'S THE QUESTION; IN THE 50" TO 60"

Jun 23, 2007 7:18PM PDT

RANGE, WHAT "HDTV" WOULD YOU BUY FOR $2,000.00 to $3,000??? (The Sony KDS-R60XBR2, has been eliminated due to excessive 'wing-span.')

Some thoughts include the PIO 5070 and 5080; SAMSUNG'S LN-T5265F (price a little steep), HL-T6187S & HL-T6189S (LED-DLPs); SONY'S..........


Well, you get the drift.... ALMOST all suggestions welcome......


Thanks as always,

RIVERLEDGE.

Discussion is locked

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I notice it at typical viewing distances sometimes.
Jun 30, 2007 5:24AM PDT

Still not the deal breaker. Lack of immunity to burn-in, glare, and cost, perhaps in that order, are the deal breakers.

Brother is leaning for a 60" now I believe.

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i guess
Jun 30, 2007 5:26AM PDT

typical would be 3 feet? Happy

i sit 8-10" for a 50" tv... and there's no way you're going to notice.

maybe you were looking at an edtv...

i would agree about the burn in issues - it would only worry me if i played a lot of games...

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I notice at 8-10 ft.
Jun 30, 2007 5:34AM PDT

I've seen a good # of them. My close friend has worked for Panasonic for over a decade. I also have 3 friends that install hi-end systems, one of which only exclusively sells plasmas (long time only Pana commercial, now only Pioneer).

Where are you going with this anyways? Do you think you are helping my cause? Anything else you would like me to know?

Perhaps you need to see your local optometrist.

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i would call that
Jun 30, 2007 5:43AM PDT

the placebo effect...

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Thank you for your well-informed
Jun 30, 2007 5:49AM PDT

insight and advice. I will heed it closely in my search for a new tv. I'm sure Riverledge will also take note. I think even Dan may reconsider future purposes in light on this new material.

And, gosh, the bitter pill always tasted real to me.

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anytime...
Jun 30, 2007 5:52AM PDT

some people hear voices as well...

lighted up... i was messing with you. i was not even referring to your original topic - just an individual post. you obviously have enough knowledge already (with help from your friends) - why the heck are you agonizing over it here?

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That's too bad
Jun 30, 2007 8:08AM PDT

because the Panasonic and LG panels (Panasonic, JVC, LG, Toshiba, and Philips) are the only ones not to feature a "screen-burn-protection" feture somewhere in their menus, which would otherwise allow modes such as pixel shif, white-wash, scrolling and the like. These functions make a plasma highly resistant to burn or retention. That being said, a heavily-lighted room will be reason precisely not to buy a projr, because like LCD's (only to a greater Extent) the picture has the wonderful ability to bleach itself out, or possibly disappear alltogether with correct lighting conditions. Why would one want a Tele that compriamises on picture quality or having a picture at all? Also I might bring up that I set up an A2020 for my buddy (2.5ms response time) and I have to tell you, even under 1080p picture via Pio Elite BluRay Player (mine, but for reference picture setup) the dynamic swings and swooping cinematography of the BluRay "Planet Earth" was severely blurred. This only worsened with 1080p gaming on PS3 (GranTurismo HD Demo, Resistance). If one is an avid gamer, there are realistically 2 tele technology choices: Cathode Ray Tube or Plasma. Both display high contrast, realistic color, and differentiable black levels (unlike LCD or and rear-projo in daylight). For the ultimate gaming experience, you may spend $7,000 on a Lowe Tube or $3,000 on a Pioneer PDP-5080 Plasma. The choice is yours, but LCD's and Rear projo's WILL be a compriamiseat every level.

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ok
Jun 30, 2007 8:30AM PDT

but 1. peace of mind, and 2. money are two VERY serious factors.

for everyone else here: I should note that, as I was in the middle of running errands, I did not get to play with the settings much due to time. At CC they had the remotes organized in the back room, though the employee found one single remote in a cabinet. At BB, I couldnt get one either. If I had to guess, the Samsung was set to some scorch mode. If it wasn't, then I'd be pretty disappointed with the color accuracy.

I tried playing with the front panel menu buttons, but was generally unsuccessful. Once it sent me toggling thru all of the inputs, when I "supposedly" in the menu. Probably need to have a manual to understand what to do with only 6 buttons, some of which are volume and channels.

back to ns387241, the panasonics DO have screen burn protection, namely pixel shifting. My brother has yet to contact LG friend for pricing, but I remember one particular model being rated a low 5 at cnet. Will be curious of models available. Anyways, to reiterate, "resistant" is a different word from "immune".

My brother is not the best at taking care of stuff. He buys stuff to enjoy, and often uses the hell out of them. More power to him. Whats the point in buying if not to enjoy. The peace of mind of burn-in IMMUNITY cannot be overstated.

Its like saying I want a fast car, but hypothetically living in backcountry, but people still tell me to buy a sports coupe because all they hear is the "fast" part w/o regards to other factors.

CRT is out of the question for the typical reasons. 3k would get him a very nice, not the best, 60" (not 50") + money left over for a decent subwoofer. (Hes getting my old onkyo system). And Im not going to tell him that his sub is compromising at every level b/c he won't buy a 3k sealed unit, btw.

I highly disagree that rear projection is a compromise at EVERY level. Thats just plain silly.

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Pros for Each Model
Jun 30, 2007 8:38AM PDT

Sony KDS60A2020 pros: reportedly a better picture overall; 2.5ms response time

Samsung HLT6189S pros: HDMI 1.3 ports; LED engine

Both appear to be 1080p native and are 3D ready.

That's what I've read so far. And if it can be boiled down to this, I would personally go with the Samsung for the features even though there may be a slight (at best) difference in picture quality. Other things you consider?

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will it matter?
Jun 30, 2007 8:39AM PDT

sounds like you and river will never actually purchase an hdtv... you're waiting for them to be perfect and free... Happy

meanwhile i've been actually watching one for the last year...

just do it!

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Ok I am officially
Jun 30, 2007 9:14AM PDT

tired of your blather and/or inability to comprehend a thread. Happy

I've owned a 61" rear projection for close to a year, and recently spent 14k on audio. Happy

I had less than an hour to look for my BROTHER. Happy

He will have one in a month. Slight lean towards the 60" a2020. Happy

You offer nothing in terms of good information Happy

You waste our time Happy

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like i said...
Jun 30, 2007 9:53AM PDT

i only responded to the last post... sorry about that. chill! it's the weekend!

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Correction:
Jul 1, 2007 12:02PM PDT

I must tell you that rear projos are a compriamise in many ways, but not all. They DO happen to have the best bang for the buck, and they do have the most maintenance required of ANY TV, and they do have the WORST viewing angles of ANY TV. SXRD is a vast improvement, but does not compete with 178 degree viewing angles, 40,000:1 contrast ratios, 0ms response times, and US manufacturing. The Pioneer PDP-5080 has all of this and more along with pixel shift, white wash, scrolling, black level sidebar adjustments, and a game mode. You will not find much of this on ANY other TV this side of $5,000.

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FOR ALL OF YOU STILL IN THE HUNT; I'VE MANGED TO ELIMINATE:
Jun 30, 2007 6:42PM PDT

SEVERAL MODELS TO DO LESS THAN THRILLING AUDITIONS...........

GONE ARE: THE SAMSUNG LARGE SCREEN LED-DLPs due to horrile off-axis viewing; don't stand up, or move to the sides while viewing the HT-T6187S/6189S...horrible drop-off in PQ. Also being shelved, the SAMMY LN-T5265S; don't get me wrong, excellent LCD-HDTV, just too fussy about viewing angles. (perfect if you live alone, though!)

I TRULY WANT a large screen HDTV; however there is one 50" set I'm in love with: the SAMSUNG FP-T5084(X)!!! Please GOOGLE it, because I'd go on forever.(It's 1080P)


I'M still considering the SONY SXRD'S, either the current KDS-60A2020, or the upcoming slimmer model, the KDS-60A3000. Almost same with a few new features and new styling, it's 1080P, as well.


MY HEART TELLS ME to buy the good stand-by, the PANASONIC TH-58"PX600U. OUTDATED TO MANY, but when was the last time you could get a VERY GOOD 58" plasma for less than $2,600! PLUS, I'm a very big CABLECARD fan.


NOTHING'S FINAL YET, but will be soon. Wish I could afford the SAMSUNG as well. ***sigh***............and the SONY...........


Best to all, thanks everyone, always,
RIVER.

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Off-axis viewing
Jun 30, 2007 11:39PM PDT

Wow, I will definitely have to check that out. I was so awed by the quality standing in front of it, I didn't think to walk around it. Thanks for the tip.

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MIND YOU I"M NOT PUTTING DOWN THE TV, PER SE; BUT JUST
Jul 1, 2007 12:27PM PDT

WARNING FOLKS THAT THERE IS A SWEET SPOT TO VIEW FROM. MY TAKE is, that the set was at eye-level when you viewed it in the store. There has lots of talk on AVS and C-Net, that the height of the HDTV has to be on a certain level. Side to side is not as disconcerting as the verticle, i.e. standing vs. sitting.

river.

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Everyone has to find factors to decide by, but I am a bit
Jul 1, 2007 3:17PM PDT

over 6 feet & can't make enough difference in vertical position relative to my DLP screen to make a difference in picture quality. Maybe some people live in ampitheaters or concert halls.

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For all the nitpicking, a nice 720 (not overhyped 1080s)
Jul 1, 2007 3:34PM PDT

will conveniently both have a nice set & save some money for other pursuits.

I so like the picture on the 2006 model Pioneers. Nice. Being aggresively priced now by some. Rats, as my local independent dealer hasn't gone close to matching online pricing on this yet. But, then again, he only has two left. I have even been led to the idea of removing the component partition in my (what I thought was huge at the time) cabinet so I could squeeze in a 50 incher. Components could ride below.

What gets lost in the shuffle of 1080 hype/excitement is that Sam Runco, HDTV pioneer is quoted at saying 720 & 1080 are both so much better than NTSC, that the difference between them is moot.

They're just my eyes & my opinon, but 720 is fine with me. Everyone serious about 1080 please send me one dollar. I'll be rolling in heretofore unknown dough. Those who buy nice 720s can laugh all the way to the bank. Now if I could make money like that grow well, by the time I'm in assisted living, my room could have a nice 3D holographic image in the middle, projected from the corners. Who needs stinking screens?

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Follow your heart
Jul 2, 2007 10:10AM PDT

"MY HEART TELLS ME to buy the good stand-by, the PANASONIC TH-58"PX600U. OUTDATED TO MANY, but when was the last time you could get a VERY GOOD 58" plasma for less than $2,600! PLUS, I'm a very big CABLECARD fan."

This set is now under $2300 at Costco. If I did not already have the 50" Panny and the 47" LCD, I would buy it in a minute. Even my wife eyes that set when we are in Costco and says to go ahead and buy it. If only I could justify the purchase....

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Sony KDS60A3000?
Jul 2, 2007 11:16AM PDT

Do tell? Slim is always good!

Sorry I'm too lazy to go back and read if you've said anything, but what are your two cents on all this PQ and blur on the Sony model vs. the Samsung 89S?

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Duh, sorry
Jul 2, 2007 12:04PM PDT

I had a neuron misfire. I know what you said earlier as you started this conversation. /sigh Sorry.

Anyway, my goal is to upgrade by the end of the summer, so I gotta kinda scope the future a bit. What's gonna be after the Sony -2020? Well apparently it is this KDS60A3000 model, but couldn't find too much or when it's coming. Will it have HDMI 1.3, because if so I'd probably be pretty much sold on it. If not, I'm still leaning on Samsung because of the reported slightly less blur, the HDMI 1.3 (three of them for that matter), and the LED engine. But what's coming after the 89S?

Enjoying this discussion, thanks for keeping it going.

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SONY'S WEBSITE, SONYSTYLE, INDICATES ABSOLUTELY NOTHING...
Jul 2, 2007 12:51PM PDT

ABOUT HDMI 1.3s, but mentions "DEEP COLOR." Whatever......
When the A3000's come along they'll be giving away the A2020s.

river.

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Seen them myself now
Jul 3, 2007 11:57AM PDT

And I must say the Sony stands out over the Samsung, no doubt about it. It was richer in color and brighter in all colors. One exception was green. Not sure if it was just the way the TV settings were done in the store, but green looked fuller on the Samsung. I was holding out on the Samsung for the HDMI 1.3 ports it has, but gosh, that Sony was pretty. On sale for $2468 this week at Best Buy. And if you say there's no report about 1.3 ports on the model A3000 coming, well...why wait. I must sleep on this.

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Going fast
Jul 3, 2007 12:42PM PDT

Was just in my Costco tonight and there were only about 6 of those 58" Panasonic plasmas left. You are going to have to make up your mind pretty soon.

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== UNFORTUNATELY THAT IS TH-58PX60U; I AM LOOKING
Jul 4, 2007 2:00AM PDT

FOR PANNY "TH-58PX600U"
The 600U, was top of the top of line, PANASONIC save for the TH-65PX600U. Thanks for trying.

river.

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A3000
Jul 4, 2007 1:54AM PDT

The A3000 model is ~4" thinner than the A2020. I could find no info about HDMI 1.3 either, so I emailed them. With the firmware update to the PS3 yesterday (see my thread, but jist is it has upconverting now and 1080p/24 support), I'm very very close to purchasing.

Now I'm trying to figure out what receiver I need in order to be prepared for 7.1 audio, Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio. I'm assuming I have to get a receiver with HDMI ports. I also read that the receiver must be capable of 24 bit 192khz PCM via HDMI. Any help here?

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PEACOCK
Jul 4, 2007 2:09AM PDT

NOTHING IN SONY'S WEB-SITE ABOUT HDMI 1.3.


river.

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I KNOW!
Jul 4, 2007 2:45AM PDT

THAT'S WHY I SAID I EMAILED THEM. =P

Depending on their answer, I'm prepared to buy the SXRD model. If the 3000 will have HDMI 1.3 then that's what I'll get. If not, then it's the 2020. The PS3 firmware update has solidified the deal for my player.

Also, the Magnolia Home Theater specialist said he did not recommend sending the HDMI signal through the receiver and on to the TV. He recommended HDMI to TV for the video, and an optical line for the 7.1 surround.

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If you read into this...
Jul 4, 2007 3:09AM PDT

This is on Sony's spec of the model 3000:

BRAVIA HDTV's performance has now advanced to the point that the color range can be defined by limitations in the original video source, rather than the TV. Thanks to the adoption of a newly approved international color standard called xvYCC (an option in the HDMI v1.3 spec and which Sony participated in creating), the color space has been greatly expanded. 1.8 times as many natural colors as existing HDTV signals will now be faithfully reproduced. x.v.Color? is the name Sony has chosen to promote video products that include xvYCC capability. x.v.Color enabled products, such as select Sony Handycam

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Samsung 6189s in operation.
Jul 5, 2007 9:17AM PDT

For all still considering a new big screen purchase. My Samsung HLT6189s was deliverer and set up two days ago. I wanted the biggest bang for my bucks so I went with rear projection. It was placed in my main master bedroom area which is 17?x17?. My viewing distance eye to screen is presently 12? 6?.

After viewing this set for two days I can truthfully say I don?t have a clue what River was talking about in his post about off axis viewing of this set. I must say his post had me worried as my set was already on order. I have stood along both sidewalls of my master bedroom and viewed the set from 8 to 14 feet from the screen and I see nothing but good clear picture. My dedicated home theater is larger, but I doubt that most people would be placing this or any other TV in a room wider than 17 feet and expect a good viewing angle.

So to sum up my opinion, I have viewed Sony?s two present top of the line sets, the XBR and the 2020 alongside the Samsung 6189S. The top of the line Mitsubishi and Panasonic were also represented. I viewed all these sets side by side at a high end electronics store where the sets are typically calibrated for the best picture, demonstrated with the best source with low ambient light levels. My point is I have nothing against Costco or Best Buy, but these stores do not have the ideal environment to evaluate a TV?s performance. I would suggest if you are interested in any large screen find a place where you can do a quality comparison and not a place where ever six year old has screwed with all the buttons and the salesmen barley know how to turn the set on.

After going back and forth, viewing and comparing the rear projection sets I quickly narrowed down my choice to Sony and Samsung. The Sony XBR immediately stands out because the colors are so over saturated, which appeals to many viewers. The Sony XBR colors are not accurate, but they are bright, the lines are crisp and it has excellent black level. On a side-by-side comparison the picture quality of the Sony 2020 was not a good as the XBR. Two friends and myself personally preferred the picture quality of the Sony XBR first, the Samsung 6189S second, the Sony 2020 third and the other sets somewhere down the line. We all agreed that the Samsung by far had the most accurate color.

If getting a good 60? picture were my only consideration I would have stopped there and purchased the Sony XBR. However, I did not want to wrestle this heavy oversized monster up two flights of stairs. Also my wife did not want to dedicate the amount of floor space this set would take up. All of the other sets were much more reasonable in size, but the Samsung was the smallest and lightest especially considering it had a 61? screen.

As far as everything else the Samsung it is cutting edge. Nothing is future proof, but the Sony XBR is basically the same set it was two years ago. I guess that is one of the reasons it was beat out for first place by the Samsung 6188 in Home Theater?s Large Screen Face Off. The 6189 recently replaced the 6188 and is the world?s first LCD, DLP display. It produces a bright clear crisp picture with excellent black levels and accurate color. The black level is even user adjustable if using a HDMI source. No guessing, it has HDMI1.3 inputs and to correct an incorrect post the Sony PlayStation is not the only thing out there that outputs 1080P. All of the other manufactures will soon follow suit, as they will be taking advantage of the greater bandwidth of the HDMI 1.3. The 6189S has good clear sound for a TV and also includes an equalizer; it is ready for a computer, game console and is 3D-HD ready when that appears. It has USB to download future software upgrades.

I can?t knock someone looking for a price point, but from the posts I have read you are not comparing apples to apples. For me the 6189S was definitely the best choice. I am completely happy with my purchase and looking forward to many years of high quality viewing. I think you should give this set a look, but that?s just my opinion.