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General discussion

OK, the program test results

Dec 6, 2003 11:53AM PST

Firstly, thanks to all who participated with testing. Between us, we covered almost all Windows, except WinMe.

Here's my findings from the results posted:

1. The installer worked fine with no errors warning of missing system files. This shows they are all present by default under all the OSes tested, including XP, which is the one I had most concern about.

2. Some reported requests by the SB60Runtime to connect with an IP. From what I am reading, this is your own internal network IP, as the application build includes that file for use in system wide software deployments including across internal networks. Not much I can do about that, as the component is added at build time, with no design option to exclude it.

3. There is no security concern with that request, because it is only requesting an internal network connection as it detected the presence of an active IP address for the machine.

I deduce this because of the following:

a) Most of you are running (I imagine) always on cable/sat internet connections. Thus you have a permanent IP assigned to the machine.

b) Rosalie uses dialup and got the request too... but admits she has a mobo with a fast ethernet adapter installed. Ethernet adapters also have permanently assigned and active IP addresses, as they are installed to make the machine cable-ready.

c) I do not see the IP connect request, even though I also have a fast ethernet adapter installed.

This difference between myself and Rosalie is explainable, however. I disabled my adapter in all hardware profiles via Device Manager, soon after the mobo was fitted, as I found it interfered with my dialup connection. So while I have the hardware installed, it is disabled, and thus the permanent IP assigned to it is not detected.

4. The OB1 offline browser sometimes wants to connect to the internet. I again don't see this with mine, but deduce it is because I have a link to my domain on the Start Page it loads, and also have the browser's Home Page set to my domain. Since I get this same phenomenon with Internet Explorer when similar pages are loaded from file, I know if I were to remove those online references, the request would not occur.

Conclusion:

I can remove the links within the browser and pages, that is no loss. So that problem is solved. I cannot stop SB60Runtime asking to connect to the local IP, because there is no turn off at the design stage since it is only added at build time. The most I can do is update the Readme file to explain about this, and that it does not pose a security threat as permission can be denied without detriment.

Discussion is locked

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A problem, Dale.
Dec 6, 2003 5:58PM PST
but admits she has a mobo with a fast ethernet adapter installed. Ethernet adapters also have permanently assigned and active IP addresses, as they are installed to make the machine cable-ready.

This is not only incorrect, it is the reverse of the situation for many cable providers. Many cable modems are part of an DHCP range) regularly. On boot up or at direction of the cable modem/DHCP server, the PC's IP address is dynamically set by the cable modem.

Ian
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Explain?
Dec 6, 2003 7:13PM PST

I base what I said on the difference betwen Ros and me. When I had the mobo fitted, it came with the ethernet adapter.

I found it was interfering with my dialup, and couldn't reach many sites, while others were sluggish. My firewall showed that even when I wasn't connected to the net, I had an IP address showing as mine, and it wasn't my ISP's assigned one.

Investigation of this showed it was related to the ethernet adapter being installed and enabled. Since I don't have any use for that device, as I can;t get cable in my area, I disabled it in the hardware profiles. Once I did that, the conflicts ended, and the firewall showed no IP address when not online, which is how it should be.

So I conclude from the above that an enabled ethernet adapter does set an IP address locally, and this is what would trigger the SB60Runtime. In fact, Rosalie would probably discover that if, like me, she disabled her ethernet adapter since she uses dialup so it isn't needed, her surfing performance would be improved.

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You are correct! Half way at least ;-)
Dec 6, 2003 7:28PM PST

.
While OBO still launches the reqest for Internet, disabling the ethernet adapter has improved the surfing performance and that alone is worth more than any little trouble I went to in helping to test your browser.

Thank you Dale.

Hardly a day goes by that I don't learn something.
.

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Ummm... well, no.
Dec 7, 2003 11:25AM PST

The problem has nothing whatsoever to do with IP address. Your adapter is probably one of the cheapies or cheap chip on motherboard.

Cheap NICs do not have a reasonable amount of their own memory, nor in some cases even their own processor, but rather use system resources,

Where you have a cheap NIC or cheap motherboard chip, then the time spent by the NIC continually trying to find a network to attach to is taken away from your other system activities - such as your dial up connection.

It is a good idea to disable all cards and motherboard features not being actively used, as all use resources in some weay or other, or at least take up time during the start up and shut down processes.

===== Related issue.

Check whether you have a modem, or winmodem.

Like cheap NICs, winmodems are software for most resources rather than hardware. If your system is busy - eg, you have Word open doing nothing except tie up memory, and all the other things your system is doing all the time - example, checking the mouse movement memory spot a thousand times a second or so - then there is less processor and memory available for the winmodem, which becomes slower; and conversely, the winmodem takes up resources which would otherwise be used by the rest of your system.

If you have a winmodem, buy the modem with the fastest processor and most memory that you can afford. $35 should cover it.
Ian

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Adapter and modem
Dec 7, 2003 1:21PM PST

The adapter is a Realtek RTL 8169/8110 Family Gigabit Ethernet NIC. Unless that tells about memory and processor I have no idea about either.

There probably are other mobo features I could disable if I knew exactely what they were and what they did. LOL. Still learning.

The winmodem is a U.S.Robotic Fax Modem and there again I have no idea about the speed and memory.

I know more about the mobo itself which is a Gigabyte GA-7N400 Pro2. The CPU is an AMD Athlon XP 2.08 GHz. I have 1024 MB Crucial 3200 DDR RAM.
.

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Re:Adapter and modem
Dec 7, 2003 2:12PM PST

The NIC is an onboard type, best disabled in the BIOS setup program. You can access that at bootup by pressing the DEL or some other key as described on your bootup screen. Depending on the windows system, you may also need to enter the networking icon in Control Panel and remove the driver there after disabling it in BIOS. The USR modem probably is a winmodem type, but those are usually good and don't drag the computer down too much.

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AMD = F8 for BIOS setup, and winmodems
Dec 8, 2003 12:11AM PST

I assume you are saying the modem being USR makes it a good one? Because I think as a species, winmodems are a bag of *****. I have a Trust one in mine, and it is worse than the 1997 year, ISA slot modem from the old Pent board, which it replaced.

Oh, and Roaslie, you will have on board graphics and sound with the AMD, I also have those with mine, excpet I use the old TNT2 for graphics... same MB of RAM, but better quality than the nbard one.

I am annoyed really, was held back by budget. I have a Duron 1300, hhwich compared to the P166 MMX it replaced is blazing fast! For 20.00 more I could hae gone to an Athlon 2.2 GHz instead, and would have liked to. However, my current RAM is SDram, and the Athlon demanded DDR Ram. That would have needed an extra 80.00 outlay for the same amount, which was the budget buster. So, I had to make do with the Duron, as it allows SD and DDR, so I had the RAM for use now, and the option to upgrade to DDR later.

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More testing .......
Dec 6, 2003 7:10PM PST

I'm not sure I understand all that you and Ian wrote but here is what I did after you posted the results of the test.

I found the ethernet adapter in Device Manager and disabled it.

I launched the OffByOne Browser and ZA asked if I wanted OBO to access the internet. It also said the program had asked before.

I rebooted the PC, removed OBO from the ZA program lineup and launched OBO again. Again ZA asked if I wanted to allow OBO to access the internet.

Like you said whether you say yes or no doesn't matter OBO doesn't access the internet.

I think this problem is unique to my system, Dale, for some reason. Must be some setting somewhere causing this because everytime I launch Open Office I also get a request to access the internet and there is no reason for Open Office to use the internet when launched.

OffByOne works perfect, opens all files. I am amazed at how this little off line browser works! It's just like being at your site.
.

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Yep, OffByOne is neat
Dec 6, 2003 7:22PM PST

That's what I was looking for. I did a special Google search for an offline browser so small it would fit onto a floppy disk. The others are bloated because they rely on borrowing the Internet Exploerer engine to gain functionality. This one is barebones, and not reliant on any other browser being installed. As long as you run Windows, it works.

No fancy features, delivery isn't totally perfect, but with the re-design of my pages specially for that browser, it does the job. What is more, it is free, and the license allows redistribution in the way I have done it.

That was the aim... to bring the Safety Guide to everyone, without them needing anything more than a Windows system and a floppy disk drive. No CD writer, no need for internet connection if a friend can download it for you.... and the actual presentation plus browser size is around 1.3 MB, so still below the capacity of a floppy. Happy

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and I would support your pride at your achievement. :-)
Dec 7, 2003 7:40PM PST

even though Zone Alarm tells my the software wants to access my DNS server every time I reboot.

Ian

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A test you might run (maybe not worth the bother)
Dec 7, 2003 3:53AM PST

There may be something in the program settings that tells it there used to be a network adaptor.

To test that you would have to completely uninstall Dale's program and any modules/utilities/... it installed (not sure what that would entail, but not always easy due to registry entries) and re-install it now that the network adaptor is disabled.

Probably not worth the effort.

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Not sure there is anything to uninstall, Bill.
Dec 7, 2003 1:37PM PST

As I understand the entire application is contained on the floppy and I think Dale said any files created on the hdd during use are cleaned up when the browser is shut down. I don't think there are any registry entries either. At least I didn't see any when I used a registry clearner.

I suppose I could get another clean floppy and start all over again...
.

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Started from scratch, same results.
Dec 8, 2003 3:27AM PST

As I said I think the request for access to the internet has more to do with my system settings than Dale's application. There may be something there that triggers ZA but since this doesn't happen with most other PC and OS I don't think it's a flaw in OB1.

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RE: Windows ME
Dec 6, 2003 11:53PM PST

When I read that you were missing ME, I downloaded and installed your trail.

I didn't get the alerts from Zone Alert, and I'm running an ethernet connection to a cable modem to the internet. I'm using the free verion of Zone Alert, not the Pro version if that may be the difference.

Installation ran and said completed without error messages. Interesting but odd results, the floppy disk properties showed over 1.2 MB full, but when I used My Computer and/or windows explorer to look at it, no files appeared on the second pane. I removed the floppy, refreshed the view, and everything was there on the floppy. And it ran fine. I'm not sure why removing and reinserting the floppy would make a difference after installation.

I'm not sure if this is something I did or something about ME. That's the only hiccup I saw.

roger

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Re:RE: Windows ME--- PS
Dec 7, 2003 5:42AM PST

I should have said, I removed the floppy, reinserted it, then refreshed the view in windows explorer and the files were there.

After that, the executible seem to run fine. No calls to ip # showed up.

roger

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Re:Re:RE: Windows ME--- PS
Dec 7, 2003 11:47PM PST

Thanks Roger, glad I got a good result with Me too. Saves having to mess with system file presence checks, which I really didn't want to get into as it means adjusting the user config.

Think the floppy refresh problem is all Windows, as I get that with 98SE too. I *think* it's because refreshing only redraws the screen, it doesn't perform a full re-read of the drive itself. The slight check on the drive is probably just to check a disk is inserted wihtout reading contents.

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Re:not a ''biggy'' but.........
Dec 7, 2003 12:05AM PST

i downloaded and installed, after i deleted the zip file i discovered there was no floppy in the drive Happy)

didn't seem to bother the installer though Wink

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Working on that one
Dec 7, 2003 11:32PM PST

Thanks, already know that one, found it out when I first tested it myself. Haven't figured out the work around to get it to test for the presence of a disk!

Problem is, how to force a drive test? The installer even bypasses Windows' own "Drive not ready" warning. When i did the install under DOS, it was easy... a batch file searched for ATTRIB A:\*.*, which meant even an empty folder was detected, and being DOS, it would throw up the Drive Not Reaady warning as needed.

If I can find the solution under this installer apps features, I will use it, sadly until then, there is an element of trust needed that the user has the sense to use a disk! Sad

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Re:Working on that one
Dec 8, 2003 1:57AM PST

I haven't looked at it, but can't you use an IF EXIST statement?