General discussion

OK, I heard President Obama's speech today.

I have a question: How long do you think it'll take for the Israelis to tell the President what to do with his demand that Israel return to its pre-1967 borders?

I suspect that it's already quietly happened.

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Comments
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Did I hear incorrectly in that GWB, early in his presidency,

endorsed the notion of allowing for an independent Palestinian state? That went a long way too.

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Incorrectly?

Nope:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A46469-2004Nov12.html

Don't think I would support the pre-1967 notion, being that Israel would never have entered that territory if it hadn't been attacked from all sides. If you live next door to me and attack my house, and in defending myself I capture a piece of your back yard, well too bad for you. You should have left me alone.

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It seems to be an intractable position then.

In fact I applaud all US Presidents who attempt to get the two sides to resolve this dispute, but whilst Israel has a Prime Minister like Benjamin Netanyahu, I see little chance of success.

Previous Prime Ministers held out some hope of a resolution, but the Israeli's assassinated one of them, and another is, I believe, still in a coma.

It doesn't look good.

Mark

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The Solution Was Easy

Everything won in the 1967 war should have remained with Israel and the US and other countries should have told the surrounding ones not to attack again or they might lose even more territory. If both sides want peace it's also easy to accomplish. Drop demands and quit fighting with each other. They know not the way of peace over there.

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I too cannot see ANY Israeli government accepting...

...such an agreement unless it's possessed by a real death wish. Devil

People don't realize that if Israel returned to the pre-1967 borders, it would be seven (7) miles wide at its narrowest point, and at many other places less than 30 miles wide. That would be a militarily indefensable position.

In addition, let's face facts, shall we: The so-called "Arab Spring" appears from all the facts presently in evidence to have been won by the Muslim Brotherhood. The result, added to what Hezbollah has been up to in Lebanon, leaves me no other conclusion than to believe that soon, Islamic "republics" will border Israel on the north (Lebanon), the southwest (Egypt) and maybe the northwest (Syria). Syria going this route of course brings Iran into very close proximity to a nation it has vowed to see destroyed. In the case of Egypt, there's some 1,200 "peacekeepers" - the majority Americans - that are still in the Sinai who will present a mere speed bump if the Egyptian Islamofascists, after gaining control of the country, decide to attack. In any event, Hamas and Hezbollah will certainly be emboldened by all this, with all the predictable consequences that will have.


"There will be no peace until they love their children more than they hate us." - Golda Meir

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sounds like a setup for the end times

All those nations gathered around and against Jerusalem aka Israel. Seven months they will be burying them after those days.

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Josh, are you surprised...

Josh, are you surprised that Obama threw Israel under the bus? Remember how many years he spent listening to Rev. Jeremiah Wright and Wright's giving an award to Louis Farrakhan? I don't think that Obama has favored Israel for a long time.

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According to CNN.....

....he was merely stating out loud what has been official US policy for years. Past presidents have avoided speaking openly about it but it apparently is our official position.

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(NT) I had heard the same thing.
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Still, as I heard it on tv news, he forgot

the qualifiers added before to presidential statements etc to lower it from going back to the 1967 borders to going to territory based on the 1067 borders. And comments like with understanding of the changes time brings etc.

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The Knesset already calls Obama "The New Arafat".....

There goes any Jewish support for '12!!

Telling Israel to go back to pre '67 borders is inconceivable,how naive is the chosen one? The Palestinians don't want peace,damn it!!,they want the destruction of Israel!!!!

I say it's about time that Israel's neighbors begin to fear Israel again,leave them the 'F' alone!!

You don't sell out your last important ally in the region!Obama has betrayed Israel and is showing his true allegiance.

Mark Levin said it best:"Israel should just tell Obama to go to hell and be done with him".I totally agree with him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Qy41xREz7A

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Nah...

He'll get the usual kneejerk support.

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My opinion

Especially over the last year is that our president is certifiably insane, and we are in a whole lot more trouble than we even imagine we are.

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You may be right...

He may be crazy. But I hope not.

His term is almost up, thankfully.

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Other presidents going way back

have 'progressively' altered our country and lives, but it was done slowly and subtly...this president has deliberately and cold-bloodedly and publicly announced he was going to transform our country and he's succeeded in nearly destroying all we stand for around the world and in our own country. We are no longer the land of opportunity and dreams. We are in a nightmare because he consistently finds ways to make our Congress irrelevent, ignores the people completely by still talking about his agendas while back in campaign mode, and the only thing we hope for anymore is finding somebody we can believe in to beat him down in a year and a half. We are a country willing to make sacrifices in order to bring our country back...unfortunately, I fear that the lady who said "I'm here to get money" and when asked where the money would come from, she replied "Obama" is in the minority this time around and the entitlements he won votes with before come to a screeching halt so we can get our self-respect back.

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Well, there is that whole....

...."He got Osama bin Laden" thing.

Two weeks later and some seem ready to try to forget he did that.

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Yes, he personally tracked down bin Laden...

and helicoptered over to Pakistan and shot him.

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I see you have your Rush Talking Points memorized

Good for you. But you know as well as I do that if OBL had been killed while Bush was president, you'd be giving him way more credit than you're willing to give Obama.

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That would be a nice trick since I don't ever listen to him.

"But you know as well as I do..."

Apparently not, because you don't know how much credit I'd give him or anyone. Just a bad guess on your part.

I see you don't dispute what I posted. Since I'm right, right? Good for you.

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RE: I see you don't dispute what I posted.
He may be crazy. But I hope not.

His term is almost up, thankfully.


Someone called him certifiably insane, I haven't heard criminally insane yet...but it's early days.

So he may be sane also....Since you hope he's NOT crazy, you must also hope he's sane.

Yes, his term is almost up...What have you got to be thankful for? Are you positive he won't run/get elected again?

It's hard to dispute the general statements you made.
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Criminally insane would be 2 days from now

We are 58 days into the War Powers Act before he breaks that law.

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Bush would have gotten more credit

because 1. it would have been accomplished in a much shorter period of time and that would have been a good thing, even if Pelosi would have had to choke over that, 2. He wouldn't have been out on the golf course while the attack was being laid out and finalized, 3. He wouldn't have been back out campaigning for re-election the next day.

I'm glad that Obama finally, after much pondering, gave the okay for the attack...I just don't think that Bush would have waited that long. Also, I believe that Bush would have preferred that he be captured rather than killed, which is the reverse policy that Obama's been using in other areas. He doesn't want anybody captured because he would have to have someplace to put prisoners...but you can't get intel out of dead people so capture is nearly always preferred. I think the only reason UBL was actually killed was because as some of the SEALs were looking for UBL, others were gathering all that documented intel from harddrives, etc. so they didn't need UBL anymore and the decision was made immediately that he was a waste of air and blew him away. The SEALs were all wearing headgear to communicate with each other, and I think that once the word came from other SEALs that they had a treasure trove of intel, UBL's fate was SEALed (pun intended) in a split second.

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re: accomplished in a much shorter period of time...

... but under Bush, it didn't get accomplished at all.

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Grim, you are overlooking something...

Grim, you're overlooking something. The OBL compound wasn't discovered until August last year. When it was, then the CIA set up that safe house near it in Abbottabad and put it under constant observation. That was why they determined that he probably was in there. Bush didn't have that yet.
Another thought: If he were to have had that and conducted that operation, do you think that Bush would have "spilled the beans" about the existence of that safe house and damaged it's future usefulness? In his "spiking the ball" for political gain Obama spilled the beans about a lot of things best kept classified.

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ignoring the fact that Bush closed the task forces...

... that were designated to hunt OBL down years before he was actually found, does not change the reality that Bush closed down those task forces. Toni was touting the efforts of Bush and I reminded us all, of what Bush did.

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Premature announcements, Grim...

Did I say Obama had made a premature announcement, Grim? I was talking about revealing classified details of the bin Laden killing. Do you think that the SEALs wanted their involvement released or the people associated with the safe house wanted their involvement? It seems to me that that put a target on them, telling the terrorists specific targets on whom to seek revenge.
Your use of the words premature announcement is an attempt to deflect attention from that to a 7 year old banner. When they don't want attention called to something, Obama supporters sometimes try to deflect that attention to something else. Bringing up Bush is a much used tactic in this, even to the point of that banner of many years ago. Obama does the try to change the subject tactic himself. Notice after the press about his meeting with an official of Israel took on a negative tone he quickly went to the CIA and made a speech about the bin Laden mission.

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LMAO !!!!
Bringing up Bush is a much used tactic... sometimes try to deflect that attention to something else.

OMG J... that is one of the best laughs I have had in quite a while. Not only did you ignore my OP comment to Toni twice... but then you say that I am trying to deflect attention away from your original attempt to deflect attention away from my OP !!!!

A masterful attempt at obfuscation J !!!

Grin
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LOL

I'll give you #1, it would have been nice if we'd been able to find him sooner.

2 and 3 are just laughable. "Now watch this drive!"

Oh wait, he gave up golf for the troops (kind of), didn't he....

Laugh

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Democratic leadership hypocrisy

During the Bush years, Pelosi stated that even if UBL was killed or captured five years later, it would be five years too late. As soon as UBL was killed under Obama, she couldn't praise HIS decision enough. It's disgusting. And ONE good event from this president that gave him a temporary bump (smallest bump any other president ever got for anything they did), does not mean that his polling numbers will be any good during his campaign efforts when he's back to his same agenda with nothing changing in jobs or the economy, especially when he's still got a year and a half to go. Consider Bush the 1st and the huge bump he got for Desert Storm....when he ran again, his numbers were horrible because the jobs and the economy were still in bad shape and there was so much time between the end of Desert Storm and the actual election, and he lost. Voters have short memories regarding the good stuff if it doesn't personally affect them economically, and nothing Obama is doing is cementing those voters to himself. He's also completely lost the Jewish vote by his actions over the last year and his speech telling Israel to go screw themselves to a wall somewhere and wait for another Holocaust.

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