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Objective Economists

by EdHannigan / October 2, 2010 9:00 AM PDT

While a reasonable case for the Democrat plan on tax cuts can definitely be made, to argue that no objective economist or analyst in the country supports extending all tax cuts paints a grossly misleading picture.
It would also contradict the testimony of CBO chief Doug Elmendorf, who recently presented evidence on the various plans for extending the Bush tax cuts. His analysis, as Josh Barro points out, shows that extending the Bush tax cuts grows the economy more than only extending the ?middle-class? tax cuts as the Democrats prefer.

Finally, a recent poll of 53 economists found that 32 preferred that all tax cuts be extended, while 11 supported Goolsbee?s position of only keeping tax cuts for brackets below $250,000 (the remaining three who answered the question favored repealing all cuts). The club of ?objective? economists is surprisingly small.
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(NT) What Democrat tax cuts?
by Mike_Hanks / October 2, 2010 9:44 AM PDT
In reply to: Objective Economists
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Imaginary ones that they are proposing.
by EdHannigan / October 2, 2010 11:36 PM PDT

Limited extending of the Bush tax cuts.

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by Mike_Hanks / October 2, 2010 11:44 PM PDT

Only the Democrats can get away with telling people that not raising your taxes is a cut !!
Shame that so many believe that.

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Let's be fair ...
by Bill Osler / October 3, 2010 3:31 AM PDT
In reply to: Yes,

As it stands the current tax structure is going to change because the Bush taxes expire. It is just as reasonable for the Democrats to call a partial extension of the Bush cuts a 'tax cut' as it is for Republicans to say that failure to extend the tax increases is a 'tax increase'.

Both sides are playing games with semantics. It's nothing new and it won't be the last time.

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by Mike_Hanks / October 3, 2010 3:41 AM PDT
In reply to: Let's be fair ...

Not semantics at all.
No matter what actions the Democrats take, taxes will not be cut (unless they propose LOWER rates).

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That's not quite factual ...
by Bill Osler / October 3, 2010 8:50 AM PDT
In reply to: No,

I don't want my tax rates to increase, but if you frame the expiring tax cuts as a pre-programmed tax increase engineered under the previous administration (which is true) then you can accurately say that extending some of those lower tax rates is in fact a tax cut compared to what the taxes would have been if no action were taken. It is no more deceptive than the GOP claim that doing nothing raises taxes.

I don't know that taxpayers will view the debate that way, but there IS a basis in fact for the Democrat's claim. It's no more deceptive than a lot of other examples of congress-speak that we've heard over the years.

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It remains however
by James Denison / October 3, 2010 9:41 AM PDT

...whatever way one wishes to look at it, the taxpayer loses.

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Since Congress could do something
by James Denison / October 3, 2010 3:54 AM PDT
In reply to: Let's be fair ...
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Since Congress SHOULD do something
by Mike_Hanks / October 3, 2010 4:38 AM PDT

Raising taxes during the Obama recession should be seen as a poor choice even by the Democrats

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RE: Here's a good page
by JP Bill / October 3, 2010 4:51 AM PDT
How bout these apples?

This analysis will review the current situation and proposed alternatives. It will also consider the economic and political risks and consequences of a stalemate as well as offer a practical compromise for consideration.
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He thinks he has the answers, doesn't he?
by James Denison / October 3, 2010 9:35 AM PDT
In reply to: RE: Here's a good page

A bit disingenuous for him to compare celebrity income to small business, that was a play on social envy for sure. Some of his ideas are good, especially about increasing the amount of estate that would pass on without being taxed. It would be better if he'd called for such to remain in place. For some reason the govt looks on family estates as if they are monopolistic businesses and nothing could be further from the truth. If they were, all of them would become Foundations, like the Rockefellers have had since John D. Rockefeller's death in The Depression.

In all of his observations, and I believe misdirections on some of them, he can't escape one glaring fact. This Democrat Congress burned midnight oil, ran roughshod over what the electorate really wanted, used every backend device, all in order to get a Health Bill past that even many of their own constituents complained they'd not even had time to read it all. Yet, they couldn't find the time to just to extend the Bush Tax Cuts which actually do help everyone during hard times?

The author by his own admission isn't pleased with the current situation the Democrats have allowed to happen.

It's going to be an interesting next 2 years, especially if Congress gets more balanced politically.

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RE: He thinks he has all the answers, doesn't he?
by JP Bill / October 3, 2010 1:09 PM PDT


The author by his own admission isn't pleased with the current situation the Democrats have allowed to happen

and you agree with him?...2 people with all the answers?

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I think a better case can be made...
by EdHannigan / October 3, 2010 5:17 AM PDT
In reply to: Let's be fair ...

that if it's not extended it's a tax raise. The idea that keeping (part of) it would be a tax cut seems specious to me, based on what you are keeping now vs what you won't be keeping.

Bear in mind that they are geared up to inflate, which is also a tax increase.

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Here's where the "tax savings" are.
by James Denison / October 3, 2010 3:48 AM PDT
In reply to: Yes,
Increase in 2011 in capital gains tax rate. Most tax accountants are urging their clients to sell off all stocks for gains before end of this year. Of course that could lead to a stock market crash. Stocks which are a loss are being encouraged to be held into the next year when they will count more when reducing capital gains tax.

Capital gains tax changes in 2011
Beyond the increased federal income tax brackets, the capital gains tax rates will also be changing (and not for the better). The top rate for long-term capital gains will be rising from 15% to 20%, and the 0% rate for those in the lowest tax brackets will be replaced by a 10% long-term capital gains rate.

In 2009 you could pass on 3.5 million dollar estate tax free and anything above was taxed at 45%. In 2011 you can pass on only a 1 million dollar estate tax free and anything above that will be taxed at 55%. Lesson here? Buy gold along, have honest family members distribute it after death and never keep in any bank. Nobody has a right to it more than those who are family. Everyone else is either a beggar or a robber, and both in a democracy together to steal family wealth.

Federal tax brackets increase.
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Thought, James...
by J. Vega / October 3, 2010 9:40 AM PDT

A thought on that 1 million dollar estate level. In Berkeley, California the median home price is $629,000. The prices skyrocketed in other towns too. Considering a house is just one part of an estate, I would think a lot of people might find a problem with the new limits.

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that's the plan
by James Denison / October 3, 2010 9:45 AM PDT
In reply to: Thought, James...

Let the estate tax come back, lower it to 1 million dollars before taxation begins, inflate the currency, then take it from taxpayers, families, from both side of the economic game the govt is playing.

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Gold problem, James...
by J. Vega / October 5, 2010 5:46 AM PDT

James, there is a problem with buying gold as a solution. A provision in the new health care bill requires that when you sell more than $600 worth of gold to a dealer, it must be reported to the government with a Form 1099.

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the last time things got this bad
by James Denison / October 5, 2010 9:33 AM PDT
In reply to: Gold problem, James...

There was a Revolution. Maybe it's time for another one.

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Nah. Last time it got this bad there was a World War....
by EdHannigan / October 5, 2010 11:33 AM PDT

Go for Three?

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You're right
by James Denison / October 5, 2010 2:00 PM PDT

It's bigger than just us. Gives me a chill thinking about it.

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I wonder....
by C1ay / October 3, 2010 4:24 AM PDT
In reply to: Objective Economists

How many jobs are created and/or provided by people in brackets below $250,000 for the vast majority of people that are in the bracket below $250,000?

I can tell you this from personal experience. Based on Obama's promises to increase taxes on people above this bracket my former employer warned me that if Obama was elected he would close the company, take his money and Move to Costa Rica. Two week after the election he told me he was closing up at the end of the month. He did exactly as he said and my son and I joined the ranks of the unemployed. Obama's promises to punish my employer for his success didn't do that at all, they punished me instead.

If the tax cuts for that bracket are not extended then I wonder what percentage of those affected will cut one or more of their employees to make room in their budget for the increased taxes?

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Following the logic of Democrat economics.
by Mike_Hanks / October 3, 2010 4:40 AM PDT
In reply to: I wonder....

Just think about how bad it will be if they DON'T raise taxes.

Did you find a new gig yet?

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by C1ay / October 3, 2010 11:37 AM PDT

Changed careers and went to work as a lab tech doing QC for a local manufacturer. I took about a 40% paycut but I've also gone from 7 dependents to just me in the last 2 years so it hasn't really hit my standard of living. I'm just glad my work history has been diverse enough that I have some elbow room to work with when I'm hunting work.

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