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Obama promised transparency.

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Promised transparency???

In reply to: Obama promised transparency.

I thought he was talking about his own administration and not a promise to try and rat out those who came before him. Me thinks your title doesn't fit the article.

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RE: rat out those who came before him.

In reply to: Promised transparency???

I hope not

Transparency?....Explaining why HE changed policy?

In prison/mob you are a "rat" when you tell about someone that has committed a crime.

Is that what your world has become?

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(NT) "Ratting out" doesn't always mean telling the truth.

In reply to: RE: rat out those who came before him.

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RE: "Ratting out" doesn't always mean telling the truth

In reply to: "Ratting out" doesn't always mean telling the truth.

And it doesn't mean they aren't.

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IMO, and since the report is said to be

In reply to: RE: "Ratting out" doesn't always mean telling the truth

the analysis of one party alone(and which one doesn't matter), it should be taken with a very large grain of salt. Even many mainstream media outlets are reporting this to be a political move...a last gasp and/or punch to the nose. There is nothing here that speaks to the transparency promised by this administration when Obama began his first term and began it by having closed door meetings with special supporters.

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RE: since the report is said to be the analysis of one party

In reply to: IMO, and since the report is said to be

since the report is said to be the analysis of one party(and which one doesn't matter), it should be taken with a very large grain of salt.


Some are more concerned about admitting the methods used intel was discovered...others are more concerned others admit that intel was discovered.

The CIA, in a statement responding to the report, acknowledged the agency made "mistakes" with its detention and interrogation program but disputed claims that the interrogations were not effective.

Torture/enhanced interrogation techniques as long as it achieves results?

Does THAT make torture acceptable?
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Only a liberal believes

In reply to: RE: since the report is said to be the analysis of one party

'torture' was used.........

I wonder what your reaction would be regarding the fact that Clinton started the 'rendition' program of sending captured terrorists to other countries that had 'black sites' for interrogation by that country's interrogators? IF you believe that was ok and you believe that torture was used on them, AND intel was gathered because of it, was THAT the intel that was passed on to GWB that all of you claimed he didn't act on because CLINTON didn't act on any of it either and he had lots of time to do so.

Liberals are quick to condemn black sites used by GWB.......would you agree that Dems are being hypocritical with regard to that issue?

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RE would you agree that

In reply to: Only a liberal believes

You first.

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You repeatedly refuse to accept my answer

In reply to: RE would you agree that

I don't think anything that happened to terrorists in our custody was torture. Enhanced interrogation got the intel that eventually led to OBL.....and BO used all that intel from the CIA to take his bow.

Your turn.......condemn black sites that started with Clinton, or approve?

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When I said "you first" it meant

In reply to: You repeatedly refuse to accept my answer

First you admit it IS "torture"

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Again...I don't believe it is....

In reply to: When I said "you first" it meant

I'm beginning to believe though that you can't comprehend English very well.

Or you have never left the toddler stage of continuously asking 'why' even when you get an answer.........

Your turn.....can you admit that a program that started with a Dem president resulted in good intel that you claim GWB didn't act on and that Clinton himself didn't act on but rather passed it on should also be considered to be torture and condemned by these same Dems now? Or can you admit that the intel gathered by that Clinton program didn't result in good intel and GWB was right to not act on it?

You can't have it both ways.............

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RE: can you admit that a program

In reply to: Again...I don't believe it is....

can you admit that a program that started with a Dem president resulted in good intel that you claim GWB didn't act on and that Clinton himself didn't act on but rather passed it on should also be considered to be torture and condemned by these same Dems now?

A 5 part question?

Yes, no and maybe....put them where YOU want.
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(NT) Show me where there was torture under Clinton.

In reply to: Again...I don't believe it is....

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Diana......Clinton's program

In reply to: Again...I don't believe it is....

of rendition was never investigated by anyone........it was all done at various black sites in other countries where they were interrogated by that particular country's 'experts'. Gitmo hadn't been used yet.........

Considering how other countries treat prisoners, the presumption has to include enhanced interrogation methods were conducted and intel provided to Clinton.

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So being required to stand up by being changed to a wall

In reply to: You repeatedly refuse to accept my answer

with a broken foot is not torture. Taking someone supper and pureeing it and stuffing it up his rectum is not torture. Changing one to the cold, damp floor (I think it was naked) until you die of hypothermia is not torture.

Tell me these things are not torture.

Not every method was used regularly and some may have been used only once. But here's a running list of the methods outlined in the report:

Forcibly shaving a detainee (p. 72)

Waterboarding one detainee more than 183 times (pg. 85)

Pureeing a detainee's lunch tray of hummus, pasta, nuts and raisins and putting it in his rectum (pg. 100)

Forcing detainees to stand on broken feet (pg. 101)

Forcing a detainee to wear a diaper with no access to a bathroom (pg. 53)

Playing loud music 24 hours a day (pg. 53)

Handcuffing a detainee to the ceiling for 22 hours a day so he couldn't lower his arms (pg. 53)

Forcing a detainee to sit naked on a cold concrete floor (pg. 54)

Depriving detainees of sleep for up to 180 hours (pg. 165)

Threatening a detainee with a gun and an electric drill (pg. 69)

Threatening detainees' families, including telling one detainee that his mother would be sexually abused in front of him (pg. 70)

Forcibly bathing a detainee with a stiff brush (pg. 70)

Keeping detainees in isolation for years (pg. 80)

Dousing detainees with cold water (pg. 105)

Keeping detainees in uncomfortably cold temperatures (pg. 105)

Forcing detainees to subsist on liquid diets (pg. 165)

Putting insects in a confinement box with a detainee (pg. 409)

Carrying out mock executions (pg. 59)

Covering detainees' heads with hoods (p. 53)

"Walling," or slamming detainees against the wall (pg. 40)

Administering facial and abdominal slaps (p. 42)

Blowing cigarette smoke into a detainee's face (pg. 190)

Dragging a detainee blindfolded through the dirt in a "rough takedown" (pg. 190)


Then there is John McCain's take on it.

During his comments, McCain referenced his own experience with torture and argued that it "produces more misleading information than actionable intelligence" and that "we can and we will" win the war on terrorism without such techniques.

But he argued that the U.S. shouldn't resort to such tactics not just because they're ineffective and potentially dangerous but because they undermine the nation's values and beliefs.

"I have often said, and will always maintain, that this question isn't about our enemies; it's about us. It's about who we were, who we are and who we aspire to be. It's about how we represent ourselves to the world," he said.

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According to

In reply to: So being required to stand up by being changed to a wall

those who were actually there, most of what's in the report and what you listed are incidents that they never even heard of...........and, although I would agree that there would be a lot of discomfort with a few of the things you listed, they didn't die from any of it including the hypothermia instance you mentioned that isn't in the list, and I would easily go along with the entire list you presented, to be honest. Nearly ALL of western prisoners under AQ or the Taliban or ISIS have died and in horrific ways. I don't consider any in the list to be torture....mental and physical anguish, yes....so what?

All of these were looked at by BO's DOJ and agreed that they were all lawful in two separate investigations and chose not to charge anyone.

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don't confuse

In reply to: RE: "Ratting out" doesn't always mean telling the truth

"ratting out" with

setting up
framing
lying

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Tell Steven...........he used the term "rat" first.

In reply to: don't confuse

next month the Republican version of events will be published.

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"Ratting out" is the term

In reply to: Tell Steven...........he used the term "rat" first.

If your familiar with it, you'll know who the rat is.

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This report was entirely done

In reply to: Obama promised transparency.

by Democrat staffers with no Republicans involved.......sound familiar? They never interviewed any of the key people involved, even though the WH withdrew their own investigation two years ago so the opportunity was there to actually talk to them. They spent $40 Million to create a report that they decided what the results would be. Diane Feinstein, the current head of the Intelligence Committe that pushed for this for years, is on the way out. This is her legacy and that's why she wanted it out before she leaves that position. There was only the rush to complete the report and do so once they saw they had lost the Senate. The DOJ concluded, after an extensive investigation of CIA agents over this issue, that everything they did was within the law that was on the books at that time and dropped their case against them. This was done with absolutely no regard for the safety of our embassies (Canada and Britain had already closed theirs in various countries when they were warned this was coming out, but the US has kept theirs open....does that also sound familiar?), no regard for our military still in harm's way, no regard for contractors or civilians still in harm's way, and no regard for allies that helped us with black sites (called rendition.....which actually began under the Clinton administration and no Dems had ever complained about that piece of history). This was another typical Democrat political move and they are no better, in my opinion, than Snowden or Wikileaks and not a mention of the fact that enhanced interrogation was approved by Congress with bi-partisan support, but just as they have done with Gruber, they have backpedalled and now say they were never told what that meant. They've been proven to be liars before, but if you tell a lie often enough, people forget you lied before and now it's the truth to their base ('hands up, don't shoot'). NOBODY died from enhanced interrogation....how many have died at the hands of terrorists that THEY have captured?

IF we really had a commitment to a just society governed by laws, we would have a president who actually enforced the ones we have on the books.

Many are comparing this report to what came about because of a lie Johnson created with the Gulf of Tonkin 'attack' that never happened in order to escalate the war in Vietnam and you know how well THAT turned out.... http://www.workers.org/articles/2014/08/07/remember-tonkin-gulf-lie/

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Protest if YOU must

In reply to: This report was entirely done

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He's always had this stance...

In reply to: Protest if YOU must

I didn't expect anything different from him.

As for 'transparency'....it would have nice to have the same with Fast & Furious, IRS targeting, Benghazi, Obamacare, et al

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RE: He's always had this stance...

In reply to: He's always had this stance...

I didn't expect anything different from him.

I hope that's meant to be a compliment for HIS actions.

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Actually it's not

In reply to: RE: He's always had this stance...

I expected him to have that stance regarding true torture because he personally did experience that and has disabilities because of it (can't raise his arms above chest level, disfigurement of the left side of his face, etc). I didn't expect him to publicly, in the well of the Senate, not out the Dems for putting out this report as a political statement since no one will be charged with criminal activity and it puts our military and embassies and allies at risk. Considering how strongly he feels about of military, I'm disappointed. I have never personally felt that what terrorists went thru at the hands of our interrogators was torture........it was discomfort. Too bad. Dems have been micromanaging our military tactics since the VietNam war and we have, until GWBush, not had good results because of it every single time. I've said it time and again....get the politicians out of military strategy and allow our military to do what they are trained to do and get the job done right again.

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RE: it was discomfort.

In reply to: Actually it's not

discomfort..................make (someone) feel uneasy, anxious, or embarrassed.

Even President Bush showed "discomfort" when he saw CIA torture in action

Just reading/hearing about it caused "discomfort"? I highly doubt he was actually in the torture chamber/Black Site.

He was probably sitting in a big leather chair and he couldn't "get comfortable" so he was in "discomfort"...

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17 out of how many military?

In reply to: RE: Considering how strongly he feels about of military,

Your story is the same as the crap being slung about how cops kill blacks.........statistics actually mean something but liberals don't care as long as their narrative meets their agenda. Deny the facts all YOU want..........

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RE: 17 out of how many military?

In reply to: 17 out of how many military?

17 out of how many military?

Does it matter how many? ONE is too many. Especially when people refuse to see it for what it is. FESS UP!!!

Are you standing up for the 17 that committed these offenses?

When you make a blanket statement I have never personally felt that what terrorists went thru at the hands of our interrogators was torture........it was discomfort.

And I show you evidence of people that were convicted of "aggravated assault and assault and battery" and you're still suggesting it's 'discomfort"


I KNOW there are lots of military personnel that wear badges...with the word "TRUTH, HONOR or VALOR" on them.

I guess it's just words.

SAY IT.....THEY WERE WRONG TO DO WHAT THEY DID.
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Those seventeen

In reply to: RE: 17 out of how many military?

were NOT convicted/demoted over 'torture' charges..........

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That's because there is no such thing as "torture"

In reply to: Those seventeen

Just ask you.

What would you consider "torture"?

"the rack"

What IF they just hung you from the ceiling by your arms for a week and your feet didn't touch the floor.

In my mind that would be a "rack" without all the mechanics.

were NOT convicted/demoted over 'torture' charges..........

SAY IT.....THEY WERE WRONG TO DO WHAT THEY DID.

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