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General discussion

NYT, 'bastion of the Liberal Left' article on Presidential candidates ...

Dec 2, 2003 10:12PM PST
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/03/opinion/03WED1.html

Even they can't avoid calling it what it is:

Swearing Fealty to Ethanol

Published: December 3, 2003

"The sound you hear wafting across the nation from Iowa these days is Democratic presidential candidates in full pander mode. Ambitious politicians seem incapable of setting foot in the state without genuflecting before the altar of ethanol, a corn-based gasoline additive."

Read it for the humor and a good reason to vote Independant or Republican.

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Discussion is locked

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Isn't that what they always do?
Dec 3, 2003 12:02AM PST

Pander to whoever they have to to obtain power, and, once elected, turn their backs on them.

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Don't kid yourself, both sides do it!
Dec 3, 2003 12:08AM PST

Wasn't it George Bush Sr. who was quoted saying "I'll say anything to win this election?"

I try to have my pander-meter running whenever I listen to any candidate of either party.

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Just curious, Josh...
Dec 3, 2003 3:17AM PST

Just curious, Josh, where did he say that. I tried a Google on that quote to see in context, but came up dry.

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Re:Just curious, Josh...
Dec 3, 2003 3:38AM PST

I came up empty also but I thought I remembered him saying that, or something very much like it. That's why I put it in the form of a question, because I'm not sure.

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I would think, Josh...
Dec 3, 2003 4:15AM PST

Josh, I would think that when I see a direct quote set off with quotation marks, it is a quote, not something that somebody thought that they might remember.

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Re:I would think, Josh...
Dec 3, 2003 5:01AM PST

J, I clearly asked whether it was Bush who said it. I don't know where you're trying to go with this.

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nt) C'mon J: 'Wasn't it'...'?' indicates a question. The opening words.
Dec 3, 2003 5:58PM PST

.

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Not always, Ian....
Dec 3, 2003 6:28PM PST

Not always, Ian, and in this particular case in the current common use of English, it in a great many cases is a (sometimes sarcastic) way of saying that someone said something. The use of a question mark does not always denote that the statement is a question. The use of quotation marks is universally taken to mean the words between them is a direct quote of something that was said by someone.
Say, Ian, in your post, didn't you say "C'mon J"? That was not a question, I know you did, the quotation marks denote that it was an exact quote. The use of the question mark does not mean that it was not, it was just a very common was to communicate something. It is like using the words "but you said".

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Re:Don't kid yourself, both sides do it!
Dec 3, 2003 3:20AM PST

I don't recall Bush having said that, BUT Sam Katz was accused of such by Dan Fee, Mayor John F. Street?s campaign spokesman.

Then in a Newsweek article from November of 1999, Al Gore was quoted as saying, ?I will do anything to win this election.? Saying is doing and he definitely said a lot of interesting things such as inventing the Internet.

John Major (England 1992) came close with -- "I wouldn't say I'd do anything to win this election, my grandmother's far too important to me."

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Re:Re:Don't kid yourself, both sides do it!
Dec 3, 2003 3:37AM PST
...said a lot of interesting things such as inventing the Internet.

He never said that but it's been very "in" for the Right to deliberately misquote him.

What he actually said was that he "took the initiative in creating the Internet," meaning he spearheaded legislation to make the Arpanet available to the general public, which is a truthful statement.
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Did you actually see some quotes on my comment?
Dec 3, 2003 3:44AM PST

I am certain that I did not put any there as I was paraphrasing. Even looking back at it now I myself can not see where it appears that I quoted him but maybe your eyes are sharper than mine (or your display is acting up).

Edison "took the initiative" on the light bulb you know.

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Parsing words
Dec 3, 2003 4:03AM PST

You know what you were inferring about Gore's credibility by bringing it up, and you know (from numerous past postings on this topic) that you were mis-paraphrasing him. I'm not going down the semantic road.

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Familiar road, Josh...
Dec 3, 2003 4:57AM PST

Josh, this road in a familiar one, let me again point out a couple of sign posts.
In 1772, ARPA became DARPA. Be that as it may, in 1772, a "net" of interconnected computers was first publically demonstrated. In 1973, this "net" (ARPAnet) started growing, and in but a year or two the public was all over it.
Al Gore first entered elected service in 1976, and his initiating a bill dealing with the developing net came later on 24 Jun 1986 when Gore introduced S 2594, the Supercomputer Network Study Act of 1986.
Your statement, "meaning he spearheaded legislation to make the Arpanet available to the general public, which is a truthful statement." has a severe time line problem.

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Re:Familiar road, Josh...
Dec 3, 2003 5:37AM PST

1772, really? The Internet predates electricity by over a hundred years, Wow!

I figured since you wrote it twice, it wasn't a typo.

Wink

Seriously though, here's a link:

http://www.perkel.com/politics/gore/internet.htm

While an obviously pro-Gore page, the quotes around midpage are worthy of note. The page also addresses the "lies" Gore told about Love Canal and the book Love Story.

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One finger strikes again, Josh...
Dec 3, 2003 6:10AM PST

Whoopsie, the old one finger typing glitch raises its head. Just wait, Josh, it's not that cold here yet, just wait till it is and the shaking really starts (grin). Or at least, perhaps I should move my 19 in. monitor to this computer so I could preview posts better. Fat chance, considering what it weighs and what I do (grin#2).

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Speaking of cold...
Dec 3, 2003 10:16PM PST

...we're expecting our first big snowstorm of the season tomorrow and Saturday. Normally I'd just be annoyed by it but we have tickets to a Barney concert on Saturday in Trenton (our 14-month-old's Xmas gift from her grandma) and it's over an hour's drive on a good day. Stressing....

Sad

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Yep, just about all of them...
Dec 3, 2003 3:07AM PST

(I am sure there are exceptions) but the Democrat presidential hopefulls have really outdone themselves and all who have gone before with the possible exception of Clinton.

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Ann Coulter's most recent on this is a hoot!
Dec 3, 2003 3:29AM PST
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/anncoulter/printac20031120.shtml

... But the Democrats have discovered a surprise campaign issue: It turns out that several of them have had a death in the family. Not only that, but many Democrats have cracker-barrel humble origins stories and a Jew or lesbian in the family. **** Gephardt's campaign platform is that his father was a milkman, his son almost died and his daughter is a lesbian. Vote for me! ...

Evie Happy
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Yeah, I like her too
Dec 3, 2003 3:37AM PST

my favorite from that column was "Howard Dean wears his brother's battered 1960s belt every day. (By contrast, Ted Kennedy honors the memory of his deceased family members with several belts every day.)"

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Re: pander mode -- At least ethanol doesn't kill people, unlike mercury...
Dec 3, 2003 8:11AM PST

.

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nt) Umm.... que? Ever noticed the side effects on alkies?
Dec 3, 2003 6:05PM PST

.

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Re: side effects on alkies?
Dec 3, 2003 10:40PM PST

Hi, Ian.

We're talking about replacing MTBE in gasoline with ethanol...
-- Dave K.
Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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You remember you said that next time you go on a rant...
Dec 4, 2003 9:16AM PST

about drunk drivers or alcohol killing brain cells or...

I didn't know anyone was considering increasing mercury levels by adding mercury to water or anywhere else Dave. Is chlorine getting in short supply or something?