Thank you for being a valued part of the CNET community. As of December 1, 2020, the forums are in read-only format. In early 2021, CNET Forums will no longer be available. We are grateful for the participation and advice you have provided to one another over the years.

Thanks,

CNET Support

General discussion

Now why in the world would they think that?!?

Mar 16, 2004 9:42AM PST

.
Many Think U.S. Wants World Domination

When people in the nine countries - including Britain and the United States - were asked if the campaign against terrorism was a sincere effort to reduce international terrorism, majorities in France, Germany and the four Muslim-majority countries felt it was not. Almost half in Russia felt it was not, while majorities in Britain and the United States said they believe the campaign is a sincere effort to fight terrorism

This can prove to be very enlightening information

If the rest of the world really feels this way fighting terrorism is going to be an uphill battle. Maybe our country needs a department of PR?

Or a new administration

Discussion is locked

- Collapse -
Well let's see
Mar 16, 2004 12:52PM PST

France, we cost them millions in their contracts with Saddam, and it seems they've always looked down their nose at us and blamed us for everything they could. And upset their notion that that their expressed opinions should be binding on the world.

Germany, cost them a lot too. And hurt their feelings we didn't cave to them, France, and the new Europe United States wannabe common market outgrowth.

Russia, you know, I bet a lot of people have never gotten over the cold war indoctrination there about how we were trying to conquer and destroy them and the rest of the world.

People in the surveyed Muslim countries remain angry about U.S. policies, and even supportive of Osama bin Laden, the Saudi terrorist who took credit for the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks on the United States.

Hmmm, and this is surprising how? they supported him before him and his destroyed the Towers and no surprise they still do. They believe we want to conquer the world cause that is what they would be trying to do if had our military power, infulence, and economic means.

RogerNC

click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

- Collapse -
Re: Well let's see
Mar 16, 2004 9:20PM PST

Hi, Roger.

The key point is to contrast these results to those early in 2001, before Bush started rattling the saber at Iraq. It was our single-minded, almost unilateral attack on iraq that brought us to the present situation, as shown here.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

- Collapse -
One short period
Mar 16, 2004 11:54PM PST
The key point is to contrast these results to those early in 2001, before Bush started rattling the saber at Iraq.

Why? Why just early in 2001? Why not in 1999, early 2000, 1575?

Just because for a few months the world's shock at the Towers destruction led to sympathy doesn't mean anything would have maintained it.

The Iraq war is fair debate, at least as far as it's timing. But the irony is even in your link, the people saying we are aggessors for attacking Iraq say

But ironically, most publics surveyed think that in the long run the Iraqi people will be better off and the Middle East will be more stable if Iraq is disarmed and Hussein is removed from power. More than seven-in-ten of the French (73%) and Germans (71% ) see the Iraqi public benefiting.

And your link indicates obliquely Bush (and US?) was unpopular before the Towers destruction.

Overwhelming majorities disapprove of President Bush's foreign policy and the small boost he received in the wake of Sept. 11 has disappeared.

And some of it probably results as much from the emerging "US of Europe" wanting to be independent from US as anything else. This is even pointed out in your link.

While critics of America's foreign policies mostly blame the president, rather than America more generally, the poll finds strong support for the idea that Western Europe should take a more independent approach to security and diplomatic affairs.

RogerNC

click here to email semods4@yahoo.com
- Collapse -
"French (73%) and Germans (71% ) see the Iraqi public benefiting."
Mar 17, 2004 12:10AM PST

.
As you say else where in this thread, Roger, a person can find a link or quote to support anything they want. As to the above, lets ask the people most involved in that part of the country.

From my link:

"A majority of the people in Pakistan and Jordan say Iraq will be worse off now that Saddam Hussein has been removed from power."

- Collapse -
Let's quote a bit more just before that quote
Mar 17, 2004 12:19AM PST
About half in Pakistan said suicide bombings carried out by Palestinians against Israelis and against U.S. troops in Iraq can be justified. Two-thirds or more in Jordan and Morocco say it can be justified in both situations.


A majority of the people in Pakistan and Jordan say Iraq will be worse off now that Saddam Hussein has been removed from power.



And even further up-

People in the surveyed Muslim countries remain angry about U.S. policies, and even supportive of Osama bin Laden, the Saudi terrorist who took credit for the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks on the United States.


/sesig
- Collapse -
Re:One short period
Mar 17, 2004 12:12AM PST

Good points Roger, but a waste of time. The same damn lies have been spewed all over (and over and over and over) the forum for years in the same leftist vomit. You can't argue or reason with the Fedayeen Anti-Americans. But whoever believes in this sort of leftist crap can vote for John "I'm an Internationalist" Kerry and bend over for the UN.

DE

- Collapse -
Re:One short period -- Doggone typos!
Mar 17, 2004 2:54AM PST

Hi, Roger.

I meant 2002, after the towers and before the saber-rattling started -- that's the middle column in the linked table. And yes, we had already started losing prestige and popularity almost as soon as Bush was elected. The simple answer is that as much as the American Right denigrates Internationalism, that's the worldview shared by American liberals and the majority of the world. Clinton was an Internationalist, as shown by our involvement in the former Yugoslavia. So, btw, was GHWB, as shown by our actions in Somalia. Bush made it clear from the get-go that he is a neo-isolationist -- he sees the US as a world leader, but one that doesn;t have to really listen to the views of the rest of the world. Whether the issue be family planning, global warming, land mines, or the World Court, y'all continually tell the rest of the world to go stuff itself, and then wonder why we aren't loved? Sheesh!

-- Dave K.
Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

- Collapse -
Re:Re:One short period -- Doggone typos!
Mar 17, 2004 2:26PM PST
The simple answer is that as much as the American Right denigrates Internationalism, that's the worldview shared by American liberals and the majority of the world.

Majority of the world? when it concerns anything but faulting the US it seems rare. When was the last time Arab nations supported anything but their agenda? When was the last time China urged more civil rights? When did France support anything that the USA did?

Yeah, we have some problems in 'the ugly American strain.' But I suspect there were lots of ill feeling toward us besides that. Now once the USSR fell apart and the world didn't feel our might was needed to balence it, and help them protect themselves, I'm sure many feared we'd use that power against their interest.

And they began to work to weaken us any way they could and continue today.

Whether the issue be family planning, global warming, land mines, or the World Court, y'all continually tell the rest of the world to go stuff itself, and then wonder why we aren't loved?

And spit in our face while taking our aid, you wonder why we start to feel like telling them to stuff it?

We have our faults, but the world's problems aren't all due to what we screwed up. We blew up two large Japenese cities ending a way we didn't start. But the world expected us to be satisfied with cleaning the Al Queda camps out of Afganistan and get it out of our system with that one response then to humbly ask the world what do you want us to do now.

Sorry, we may need to give more on somethings, but there's a lot of grief handed us every day from around the world.

RogerNC

click here to email semods4@yahoo.com
- Collapse -
You couldn't find something less MISLEADING?
Mar 17, 2004 2:33AM PST

The "survey" was a year old Dave meaning that the "Today" figures are also a year old (Released: March 18, 2003).

Did you bother comparing the GENERAL DISCONTENT with the selected results? (Rhetorical as it is obvious you didn't or you wouldn't have linked to it.)

Look them over (here is the questionaire) and try to remember that this is a year ago.

LOOK at the questions asked and the negativity implied in their careful wording. Look especially at Question 5 and 6 (a two part that should have been three part unless preordained).

- Collapse -
PS - try looking here at current vs. a year ago
Mar 17, 2004 2:42AM PST
http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=206

Questions no available but similar bias can be assumed.

As you are fond of saying, THE KEY (POINT) IS that in almost every instance the present favorability rating is higher in 2004 than it was in 2003.

It is just another poll so don't try to live your life by it--just use the information with a grain of salt and realize it isn't gospel.
- Collapse -
We are acting as though we've already conquered the world and - "Sire, Sire. The peasants are revolting!" "I know. They stink on ice!" nt
Mar 17, 2004 9:16AM PST

.

- Collapse -
And why should we trust them?
Mar 16, 2004 12:58PM PST
Almost two-thirds of the people in Pakistan say they view bin Laden favorably - a significant finding because U.S. troops are trying to find bin Laden in the mountainous region on the border of Pakistan and Afghanistan. More than half of those in Jordan and almost half of those polled in Morocco had a favorable view of the Saudi terrorist.

No surprise to anyone there either. That group hated us before the first Iraq war and wanted to destroy us even back then.

At least two-thirds of people living in France, Germany, Russia and Turkey thought it would be a good thing if the European Union becomes as powerful as the United States. Turkey and Russia are not currently members of the European Union.

No news there, why do you think they're pushing it so hard? Although France and Germany both think they can pull a fast one and become the Great Britain of a new British style empire called the European Union.

About half in Pakistan said suicide bombings carried out by Palestinians against Israelis and against U.S. troops in Iraq can be justified. Two-thirds or more in Jordan and Morocco say it can be justified in both situations.

So they believe that terrorists are doing it the right way? There is plenty of room for debate about a lot of things, but I don't think there is much debate about those methods outside the radical Islamic and Palestine camps.

RogerNC

click here to email semods4@yahoo.com
- Collapse -
Re:Now why in the world would they think that?!?
Mar 16, 2004 1:10PM PST
A solid majority of those in France, Germany, Russia, Pakistan and Jordan believe United States President Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair lied about the weapons of mass destruction they claimed were in Iraq.

Again, most of those disliked us way before 2000 I bet. France couldn't wait for us to get out as soon as both World Wars were over I bet. And besides, I wonder what the media there has been saying?

If someone wants to claim President Bush was predisposed to believe the worst about Iraq, that's certainly something to discuss. But noooooo, everyone just yells, HE LIED, even though the intelligence predated his taking office, even though the official reports of herr Blitz said there were weapons from pre first Gulf War unaccounted for, and so on.

Was the information wrong, perhaps so. I hope so, I hope the delay didn't give time for any such weapon components to be disperse throughout the radical Islamic world.

Bush and his administration weren't the only ones that believed it, no matter what many say now. People want to argue he was too willing to believe the worse of Iraq, go for it. People that nodded yes and shouted AMEN after 9-11 that now want to yell LIAR, can go jump in an ice lake.

RogerNC

click here to email semods4@yahoo.com
- Collapse -
Regarding the UN
Mar 16, 2004 1:21PM PST
Ratings for the United Nations are relatively high in European countries, and low in the Muslim countries. Just over half in the United States, 55 percent, gave a favorable rating to the U.N.

Hmmm so we're somewhere in the middle again? Just like the Europeans think we're so prudish that we won't swap spouses or such. And the radical Islam thinks we're decadent obscene society that should be wiped out.

I don't see the middle as such a bad place to be. I am getting tired of the world painting USA with a tar brush while demanding we do this or that for them and the world.

Europe is looking to use UN to put us under their influence. The Muslims don't want political influence, they want absolute religious rule.

The UN serves a purpose. It's somewhere for countries to scream and portray themselves as the aggreived parties, then sometimes meet behind the scenes and work out a face saving method to accept what is needed.

I don't think it's ready for the job of prime time boss yet.

RogerNC

click here to email semods4@yahoo.com
- Collapse -
PS, any harsh feelings in my replies are intended for the article
Mar 16, 2004 1:46PM PST

and general nonsense that it was all a lie, etc.

I did not intend to single anyone out, the article itself finally made me boil over.

Nothing there should be a surprise to anyone, except a few numbers of support I didn't expect even.

Most of the groups named have hated and envied the US for decades, not just since Bush was elected. And I'm tired of politics and resentment he won making him the bad guy for it all.

He's not perfect by no means, neither is any other politician. In fact, the mere fact that anyone wants a public office tells you they're not mentally competent enough to be trusted with it. But what can you do? no one totally sane would ever want to be in national politics.

RogerNC

click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

- Collapse -
Understood, Roger. However, you can rant, rave and rationalize about the figures ...
Mar 16, 2004 5:15PM PST

and the peoples all you want, the fact is that it appears most of the world thinks we want to dominate it. And for that reason they hate us. I don't know about you but I take that seriously and it bothers me. I don't think it's true. I HOPE it's not true. I think it would be to our benefit if we weren't viewed as such.

You said Russia had always looked upon us as wanting to rule the world. I have news for you, Roger, WE had viewed THEM as wanting to rule the world. Now who was right? Probably neither.

I think it may be a good idea to find out just why so many people are so sure yet so wrong. If they are.

- Collapse -
The misapprehension is easily understood by non-USAmericans.
Mar 16, 2004 8:35PM PST

Every post in this forum, and a million or so like it demonstrates daily the reasons.

Its personal to every non-USAmerican, and the villification I received that led to my hiatus is based upon it:

======
drum roll
======

The reason people think wrongly that USA wants to rule the world, to implement obsolete historical imperialism

IS

because the USAmericans want the rest of the world, to:

a) be exactly like their own church in their own town or suburb;

b) have exactly their own beliefs in sexuality, and to want to watch live discussions of sexual misbehaviour on TV whilst still pretending their own misbehaviour doesn't exist;

c) import goods from USAmerica, support free trade where it is to the advantage of USAmerica;

cii) accept without argument when USAmerica institutes protectionist trade policies so a Senator can be re-elected;

ciii) not implement production efficiencies such that the other country can effectively export goods to USAmerica;

civ) employ expatriat USAmerican citizens in any role in any country a USAmerican citizen wishes to be employed; whilst

cv) not daring to be so rude to USAmerica as to provide valid outcountry outsourcing services, or higher trained people who wish to work within USAmerica.

Believe you me, as an Australian, the absolute lies, hypocrisy and outright cheating, let alone the toppling of governments, performed by USAmerica to extend its economic interests has been a shock and horror I've observed personally for over 50 years.

Every trick that would get an American company investigated by the Justice Department, corporate executives jailed, is undertaken as a matter of course by USA as a country.

I will never forget the destruction of democracy in Fiji by the CIA, because USA companies got beaten on price by European companies. Never.

USAmerica doesn't want to rule the world, it just wants to own it.

Ian

- Collapse -
Re:The misapprehension is easily understood by non-USAmericans.
Mar 16, 2004 9:02PM PST

Glad to see you back Ian.I hope the whole world doesn't feel that way about us. And you're solution as to how to change their opinion would be???

- Collapse -
The attempt of religion to control
Mar 17, 2004 12:06AM PST
a) be exactly like their own church in their own town or suburb;

b) have exactly their own beliefs in sexuality, and to want to watch live discussions of sexual misbehaviour on TV whilst still pretending their own misbehaviour doesn't exist;


I'll grant that religions as a rule, including our own, have always pushed to dominate. So that means we're hated because of some of our religious groups act on that desire.

I'll even concede that our government activities have sometimes encouraged or partially supported such religious views and offended others.

How does that relate to the idea of the world distrusts and hates us because of President Bush invasion of Iraq? other than as a background of existing resentment, which was part of my point. I may have buried that in my irritated response.

RogerNC

click here to email semods4@yahoo.com
- Collapse -
The business and government policies about trade
Mar 17, 2004 12:14AM PST
c) import goods from USAmerica, support free trade where it is to the advantage of USAmerica;

cii) accept without argument when USAmerica institutes protectionist trade policies so a Senator can be re-elected;

ciii) not implement production efficiencies such that the other country can effectively export goods to USAmerica;

civ) employ expatriat USAmerican citizens in any role in any country a USAmerican citizen wishes to be employed; whilst

cv) not daring to be so rude to USAmerica as to provide valid outcountry outsourcing services, or higher trained people who wish to work within USAmerica.


I'm not enough of an economic expert or political history to really address the issues probably. I'm sure we've tried to set up advantages to ourselves regarding trade. Don't think we're the only ones there.

The protectionist policies to get a Senator re-elected sounds like a very specific instance in mind. Sadly, I have no doubt there are many instances of bad legislation to get someone elected. Some of will be bad even for the people electing the candidate, but will satisfy those that have the influence.

There probably points for and against your ciii, civ, cv, but since I'll confess to too little knowledge on them to argue, I'll leave them to anyone else that chooses to agree or disagree.

USAmerica doesn't want to rule the world, it just wants to own it.

That could be a huge debate, although now it looks to me like we're losing control to the rest of the world through our own companies moving overseas.

RogerNC

click here to email semods4@yahoo.com
- Collapse -
Sounds like you were speaking of Australia there...
Mar 17, 2004 1:41AM PST

or England, or Japan, or Brazil, or just about any other country one can think of--those are what all appear to want.

Speaking of vilification, go back and look over your posts and see why you received responses flavored and rendered the same as your posts. When you ask for something don't be surprised when you get it.

- Collapse -
Re: Understood, Roger. However, you can rant, rave and rationalize about the figures ...
Mar 16, 2004 10:52PM PST

Hi, Rosalie.

>>I think it may be a good idea to find out just why so many people are so sure yet so wrong. If they are.<<

The Bush doctrine of preemptive war is a good example of how we add to the world's fear. Imagine if China were to proclaim such a doctrine -- how would we feel? We have this self-image as the good guys, and that somehow the rules don't apply to us. From global warming to land mines to the World Court, we steadfastly refuse to join the rest of the world in dealing with world-wide problems. If we were a person instead of a nation, we'd be diagnosed with a superiority complex. We all know how we react to being around people like that -- why should it be any different for us as a country?

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

- Collapse -
Re:Re: Understood, Roger. However, you can rant, rave and rationalize about the figures ...
Mar 17, 2004 12:08AM PST

Ahhhh, another "internationalist,' as if that wasn't abundantly clear already. No wonder you've been going nuts when people point out the truths about Kerry here.

DE

- Collapse -
The World Court?
Mar 17, 2004 12:17AM PST

Are you saying US citizens should be accountable to the world court as proposed? Including our military? To what extent?

- Collapse -
Re:The World Court?
Mar 17, 2004 12:24AM PST

Here's the answer you'll get from all the Anti-American leftists, whether they'll admit it or not. I'll just shorten it up to the direct answers, and to get rid of the extraneous leftist vomit and equivocation:

Q. Are you saying US citizens shoudl be accountable to the world court as proposed?

A. Yes.

Q. Including our military?

A. Yes.

Q. To what extent?

A. Totally (they'll try to lie about this part, but that's the truthful answer -- look at their posts and replies).

DE

- Collapse -
Re:The World Court?
Mar 17, 2004 1:00PM PST

Hi, DavE.

How can you, of all people, claim that we can now deny the precedent that we ourselves established with the Nuremburg Tribunals? The World Court isn't some leftist invention of the UN that's now being pressed on us, it's our own precedent being applied universally, and now we think we should get a pass? On what possible basis? Other than thinking that our country is better than everyone else's, so the rules that apply to everyone else (and which we ourselves invented) shouldn't apply to us. The right's hypocrisy about this issue is unbelievable!

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

- Collapse -
Re:Re:The World Court?
Mar 17, 2004 2:36PM PST

I'll confess I'm not up on what proposals have been made regulating how such would be run.

I believe the West Wing is one of your favorite tv shows? did you see the episode regarding that as a small aside? Leo was reminded by the general of a bridge he bombed as a pilot. His reply was so? it was a military target. The general told him nope, he was told it was but it actually was a dam and under the proposed international laws he as pilot would be guilty.

My main question would be what it scope would be? when could someone be charged by it under supernational law.
What guareentees of rights and procedure would it have? Who would oversee it and control it's procedings? Sorry, but outside of accusations of war crimes of the scope of Nazi Germany and such, I don't see why each country should give up it's citizens right to be tried by the rules of their government.

And as I recall, the Nuremburg Tribunals were set up by the Allies and victors after a huge world conflict. Not by all the countries of the world trying anyone chosen by some process besides war.

RogerNC

click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

- Collapse -
Re:The World Court?
Mar 17, 2004 12:56PM PST

Hi, Clay.

To what extent? Hw about to the same extent we held German and Japanese soldiers accountable after World War II?

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

- Collapse -
"... we'd be diagnosed with a superiority complex." That's true but ....
Mar 17, 2004 12:20AM PST

.
as a whole that's the way we have been raised. To think, and be comfortable in the knowledge, that we are better, richer, more intelligent and more powerful than any other country. Some of that may be true and even acceptable by other countries if we didn't spoil it by being so aggrestive and demanding.

- Collapse -
Where's Randy Newman when you need him?
Mar 17, 2004 12:26AM PST
Political Science Lyrics

No one likes us-I don't know why
We may not be perfect, but heaven knows we try
But all around, even our old friends put us down
Let's drop the big one and see what happens

We give them money-but are they grateful?
No, they're spiteful and they're hateful
They don't respect us-so let's surprise them
We'll drop the big one and pulverize them

Asia's crowded and Europe's too old
Africa is far too hot
And Canada's too cold
And South America stole our name
Let's drop the big one
There'll be no one left to blame us

We'll save Australia
Don't wanna hurt no kangaroo
We'll build an All American amusement park there
They got surfin', too

Boom goes London and boom Paree
More room for you and more room for me
And every city the whole world round
Will just be another American town
Oh, how peaceful it will be
We'll set everybody free
You'll wear a Japanese kimono
And there'll be Italian shoes for me

They all hate us anyhow
So let's drop the big one now
Let's drop the big one now

-Randy Newman