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Nobel laureate Gunter Grass died this AM.

Apr 13, 2015 3:47AM PDT

The WatchTower of 10/15/2007 mentioned him. The full text is too long to print on SE, but a local Witness could print it for you from his CD-rom or copy it from the KH library.
"Gunter Grass, German author and winner of the Nobel Prize for Literature in 1999, published his autobiography in 2006. In it he describes the time when he was drafted into the German civil defense. In the same book, he tells of a man who made such an impression on him that it has stayed with him for over 60 years. That was a solitary figure who stood up for his faith under persecution.
In an interview published in [a Frankfort daily] newspaper, Grass recalled this extraordinary person, who refused to take up arms. Grass said that the man "did not subscribe to any of the prevailing ideologies, being neither a Nazi, a Communist, nor a Socialist. He was one of Jehovah's Witnesses." Grass does not remember the name of the Witness, whom he dubbed We-don't-do-such-things. [He was identified later as Joachim Alfermann.] He was repeatedly beaten and humiliated, and then he was placed in solitary confinement. But Alfermann remained steadfast and refused to bear arms.
'I admired his incredible determination,' Grass noted. 'I asked myself: How can he put up with it all? How does he do it?' "

Discussion is locked

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So the man refused to take up arms and
Apr 13, 2015 4:19AM PDT

join the offense...that is...the forces of evil. Good for him and those like him.

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So the man refused to take up arms and
Apr 13, 2015 6:29AM PDT

kill your grandfather. That's good... or is it bad?
From a life story in Watchtower 9/1/2010 "World War II had begun in September 1939 in Europe, and war hysteria swept through the United States. Young Witnesses suffered harassment and beatings by misguided youths and adults alike. It was reported that from 1940 to 1944, Jehovah's Witnesses in the United States suffered more than 2,500 violent mob assaults. The persecution increased when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941." WWI similarly.
From another Watchtower article: "The Catholic Herald of London stated: "The first Christians... took Jesus at His word and refused to be conscripted into the Roman army even if the penalty was death. Would the whole of history have been different if the Church had stuck to its original stand?... If the churches of today could come out with a joint condemnation of war... which would mean that every member would be bound in conscience to be, like the Christians, a conscientious objector, peace might indeed be assured. But we know that this will never happen." [The Herald of course is wrong. Ps 46:9]
From another of our publications: "During the recent world wars, which millions of persons now living survived, the religions on both sides encouraged their people to kill. "Kill Germans--do kill them," said the bishop of London. And, on the other side, the archbishop of Cologne told Germans: "We command you in the name of God, to fight to the last drop of your blood for the honor and glory of the country."

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Not to make light of anything but I'd think that the first
Apr 13, 2015 6:43AM PDT

"Christians" refusing to join the Roman army isn't the right place to start such dialogue. While I wasn't around then to verify this, it is my understanding that the Roman army was built for aggression and not for defense. They were bent on adding to a growing empire and not preserving their existence. I wouldn't be able to defend my grandfather if his motive was to attack, conquer and enslave other nations but I suppose there are some who'd say I should stand back and just let this happen. I'd think that if that was real nature expected of man, we'd have long ago been extinct.

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Please note that the [Catholic] Herald
Apr 15, 2015 9:11AM PDT

is the source for the application of Rome to today.
When you join, you agree to follow all orders or die. We choose to die first, if required. IOW down to this day, Christians take Jesus at His word and refuse to be conscripted into mens' armies even if the penalty is death.
What Jehovah put into us is love. That inherent quality was lost at the Fall. Can't love Jehovah? How can you say you love your fellow man? Kill your fellow man? How can you say you love man's creator? 1 John 3:9, 4:8. John goes on, "The one who does not love remains in death. Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has everlasting life remaining in him."
Yet we're not extinct- some 8,000,000 of us active, and more all the time.

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Men's armies or the Roman army?
Apr 15, 2015 9:47AM PDT

Too bad they're not around to clarify. But...and I'll ask rhetorically...do you think that God/Jehovah would be proud if all of the rest of mankind conceded to ISIS and allowed themselves to be slaughtered as infidels? Is that what you think is epitome of obedience? Would that fulfill the prophesy?...because that would not be an unlikely occurrence should no one resist.

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I don't understand your subject line.
Apr 21, 2015 4:43AM PDT

In any case, "the rest of mankind" needs a stronger God; perhaps you do, too.
2 Kings 19:32-35; confirmed by historians.
Gen 6-9.
2 Pet 2:9.
Under persecution by the government and the mainstream religion of the day: "Saul, for his part, approved of his murder. On that day great persecution arose against the congregation that was in Jerusalem; all except the apostles were scattered throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria." Where they preached... Acts 5:29
Hitler.
Stalin.
Hastings Banda.
Woodrow Wilson.
And others, some of whom vowed complete destruction of Jehovah's organization on earth. 'We're still here, they're all gone.'

Blunt language: "The children of God and the children of the Devil are evident by this fact: Whoever does not practice righteousness does not originate with God, nor does the one who does not love his brother." 1 John 3:10 We try to be children of God.

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they are trying to build
Apr 22, 2015 1:10PM PDT

a new Martyr cult.

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you very well know
Apr 13, 2015 9:11AM PDT

but continue to ignore, that there were examples of Christians serving in the roman army at that time. Try these search words "centurian", "Cornelius", "jailer", "soldier" particularly the one who spoke with Christ. Maybe those who were beaten were because of their obvious lies?

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Related: Next Sunday we'll be studying
Apr 21, 2015 5:00AM PDT

(worldwide) the Bible by means of the Watchtower article Preparing the Nations for "the Teaching of Jehovah".
http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/w20150215/preparing-nations-teaching-of-jehovah/
Tells how the Pax Romana aided the spread of the Gospel.
Paragraph 8: <quote>Expressing his viewpoint, third-century theologian Origen wrote: "It would have hindered Jesus' teaching from being spread through the whole world if there had been many kingdoms... because men everywhere would have been compelled to do military service and to fight in defence of their own land... Accordingly, how could this teaching, which preaches peace and does not even allow men to take vengeance on their enemies, have had any success unless the international situation had everywhere been changed and a milder spirit prevailed at the advent of Jesus?" Kingdom proclaimers were persecuted in the Roman world, but they were peaceable and apparently benefited from the somewhat peaceful climate of those times.—Read Romans 12:18-21. <end quote>
Y'all welcome to come and see how we learn. Download the article in PDF and bring it, with your Bible. The admission fee is spelled out at Mt 10:8.