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General discussion

Nikon D610 vs. Canon 6D

Dec 11, 2013 5:05AM PST

I am looking to buy a HDSLR as an entry into filmmaking, I wanted to not buy a lower spec camera first but actually go all out and purchase a model with a full-frame sensor.

I found the Nikon D600 first and looked at the quality of video that can be produced and learnt that this camera has so much potential. I then learnt that the D610 was released as there were a few minor faults with the D600 (dust/oil on sensor), they also made a couple minor things better but they are 99.9% the same camera, D610 being the faultless model.

I then was told by my friend who is biased toward Canon anyway, to check out the 6D. Both of these cameras have full frame sensors and are brilliant for film making. The Nikon would be better for action shooting (photos) but there really aren't major differences between the two. 6D has wifi and GPS where the Nikon has a pop-up flash, 2 SD slots and also a headphone out port unlike the Canon. Both cameras work well in low-light situations, the Canon able to reach a higher ISO.

What I would like to know is in the long run, which camera is better and more suited for filmmaking and why? Is there an equal amount of equipment available for either?

Both similar price, but diving into something like this I would like to try and find a clear winner. All help appreciated, thank you.

Discussion is locked

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I don't see a "clear winner." Why?
Dec 11, 2013 5:11AM PST

The same old issues are here with the camera does not take the shot as well as lighting and more are required to make a great shoot.

I've lost count of those entry movie makers that don't get a good audio rig or think they can get by with just one camera. My son took the film course work and now he gets it. He has audio rig(s) and the usual camera plus a second camera for the other angle.

All the work in post production makes you wonder how folk think it's just the camera we have to choose.
Bob

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Ugh.
Dec 11, 2013 5:17AM PST

That wasn't the answer to what I asked, or even any help.

I already have made short films and am aware more than one camera is brilliant, sure. But I am looking to buy one single camera, either a D610 or a 6D.

Is it much to understand. Which is better for filmmaking? If you yourself do not know or have any helpful technical input then why reply as you haven't helped here.

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Only a new film maker thinks the camera makes the shot.
Dec 11, 2013 6:20AM PST

I don't think I can help here but you can try finding example video footage from each camera.

It's a shame you responded like this but I've been there, my son has been there and he got over it.

-> In parting why not take the seller and makers to task for not answering your questions?
Bob

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About the Canon, Nikon debate.
Dec 11, 2013 6:36AM PST

That debate is very old. Sort of like Ford and Chevy. I learned long ago to nod and watch folk duke it out.

As to the higher ISO, the last time I heard that discussion the video maker was trying to avoid lighting the scene. That's a tired area and as they get more experience they stop and re-light the shoot before they re-take the shot.
Bob

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subject
Dec 11, 2013 10:33AM PST

I understand that the camera doesn't make the shot, no it doesn't. However I want a camera that is capable of big things. If I purchased something with less potential now, I would only have to upgrade in the short future. These cameras though are very very good, and the better the camera is, the more you can do. These cameras aren't going to be outdated any time soon, and will hold their value. I have been reviewing both cameras a lot recently and they are remarkable. From a film making POV I just wanted to know which had the advantage in that field.

I still think the Nikon appears a bit better, they are both so alike.. But I was also informed that Canon have been making cameras with video functions much longer than Nikon so I just don't know...

The thing you kept missing to understand is that I will not regret buying this camera, If I ever did, I would sell it and yes they hold their value very well so I wouldn't lose much. Though, that will not be the case as I am very much 101% certain on buying one. The main thing I want in my life right now is a camera, I want to travel about and take pictures and make films and freelance without having to rely on college equipment hiring (and the equipment is poor) .. To use it and master it before University next year. I do not own another video camera atm so it will allow me to learn more and I will have things to edit and be able to work by myself. It will be for personal use, freelance and with the possibility of using it for projects whilst studying. I am getting a camera regardless and i'd rather get a better one now than regret it and get a small one. I still will collect lenses and accessories from now until next year treat myself every now and then and I will have a nice little setup.

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Then the 2 per cent issue.
Dec 12, 2013 12:19AM PST

One of the odd areas about experiences is that unless the difference is over 2 per cent it's likely to not be perceived. If you are slicing the difference to something small then you need to take the winning number and move to the next item. But given the 2 per cent threshold (they teach that in human factors classes and elewhere) you may be slicing this too finely.

And again, if the maker/seller is not talking, why are you considering their products?
Bob

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you make
Dec 12, 2013 2:36AM PST

0 sense.

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So you think that it's nonsense?
Dec 12, 2013 3:21AM PST

If the maker and seller is not talking to you, it's nonsense to shop elsewhere?

Or is the the human factors 2 percent topic that is new to you?
Bob

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wot m8
Dec 12, 2013 4:25AM PST

Atleast explain yourself, because you make 0 sense. What is this 2 percent you are talking about, don't just say human factor because funnily enough saying that means nothing.

And you you saying to go into a store and speak to staff? because that is better english and makes sense. i will not be able to speak to mr. canon he is either dead or busy, fanx m8

Is there no one else on this forum...

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OK, I over simplified the 2%
Dec 12, 2013 5:26AM PST
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Someone else
Dec 12, 2013 10:51AM PST

I think Mr PhilVerley that your rude responses to R Profitt has discouraged us from replying! - what do you think?
Incidentally if you want to make films why don't you buy a camcorder. My Panasonic takes excellent stills as well as good HD video, but my trusty Olympus E-10 is there for the photos.

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Sorry
Dec 12, 2013 3:14PM PST

Rude? I didn't realise, please accept my apologies. I'm trying to research into cameras and I have been told not to buy one, and then told information that means nothing to me because I have made it clear I am a beginner and feel slightly mocked.

I just need to get an idea of the most ideal camera for film making for a rough body price at £1000. Pretty sure a D610 OR 6D are my best options, though which do others feel is better and for what reasons? Any other cameras in a similar league worth looking at?

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Lets see what we have...
Dec 12, 2013 10:47PM PST

You tell us you are a beginner basing your requirements on specs of dSLR cameras designed to capture still images that happen to have video and audio capture capability as a "convenience feature". While weighing the merits of whether wifi and GPS or pop-up flash - which have little to do with video capture (which has nothing to do with "film") - you asked for our opinion to nudge the decision in one direction or another. Fair enough.

I don't think you should get either one. They are not designed to capture video. They will overheat and shut down after about 20 minuted of continuous video or "live view". They have a file length limitation. Audio control (assuming you want to use the audio recording capabilities of the camera rather than an external recorder) is very limiting because it is burned in a menu. Lens noise can be recorded by the internal mics. There's more, but when using a device not designed for the stated use requirement, there are workarounds you will need to address.

This does not mean that dSLRs can't capture good video - they can. But their shortcomings need workarounds and are less straightforward than using a device's proper design elements. As you said you already know, it is the not the camera, but the user. When the right equipment is used, that can help the user do the task. Assuming you have already discounted actual camcorders designed to capture video to do the job for you, that leaves you with a relatively new family of gear that use dSLR type sensors, can provide a good depth of field, have interchangeable lens systems and are designed to capture video. The Canon EOS Cinema Cam family (C100, C500, C500), Sony NEX-VG series, NEX-EA series, Panasonic AG-AC series, Blackmagic Design Cinema Cam and a few others would be much more appropriate for your stated purpose. And the Canon and Sony series can also capture still images quite well.

Yes, these cams are a bit more than you want to spend... but we also don't know if your budget also includes a decent tripod or other steadying devices (camera crane, vest-type Steadycam system, dolly/track system and others), lighting kit (on camera or otherwise), mics (no single best mic, a good shotgun and a good wireless lavaliere are a starting point), external audio recording gear (I like the Zoom H4n and some of the Fostex gear), power supplies, cables and lots of other stuff. Obviously, one need not get all this stuff at once, but if this has not already been considered, please at least provide a cursory look.

You asked for opinions. Bob provided one. It appears you already know what you want and are looking for some validation and justification for a decision based on technical items that 99.999% of viewers will not care about. Worrying about specific technical settings for equipment that is not primarily designed to do what you want is a bit like expecting a sedan to do the job of a pickup truck...

I did not think you were rude as I cannot hear the inflections of your typing. If I seem that way, it is not my intent, but I do want to be straightforward about the information provided and am willing to share (from experience and observation).

The dSLRs you are looking at should not be treated as a camcorder replacement. In my opinion, you should consider either reducing your requirements and flip a coin to determine the selection from your short list or increase your budget and invest in the correct tool for the started requirement(s)...

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Thank you!
Dec 13, 2013 4:20AM PST

I can see you are blunt and straight to it but I admire that and at least you are making sense. I am very grateful that you took the time to read and make a response. It wasn't just this thread though, I had one other thread where I was just told by Proffit to not bother buying a camera which was obviously great buyers advice.

I will check out the range of cameras you suggested for certain! The thing is, I will have around £1k to spend on a camera body, and then will have a bit left over, treat myself to a lens, camera bag etc... then over the next few months I will acquire accessories needed (battery packs, lighting, shotgun+boom mic, tripod, steadycam etc..). I know there are endless lenses and accessories available for the DSLRs, and in this modern time you can achieve so much for so little by using a DSLR. Especially in this range, with their full frame sensors etc. I would just love a camera that isn't too bulky, it's not a requirement, just a preference - so I can easily transport it around and not gain much attention whilst using it, no fuss. I can't imagine when I would be required to constantly film for 20 minutes straight anyway; It will be used for music videos, short films, personal videos, a little bit of action sport etc and photography just as a personal hobby.

Looking at the footage from the D610 (D600) which is apparently on par with the 6D, it's superb or at least I think so. If I invested into a Sony or another brand, that might be more video specific... but do they have as big a sensor? Is the quality of film as good? Is there as much a range of lenses and accessories? What actually makes it better for filming, regardless if it is made specifically for film is it actually better though?

I will research into these other suggestions, and really do thank you for your input!

Phil