News helicopters crash

They occurred during the reporting of a news story.

Police pursuits happen many times in many places. They are not all followed by "eye in the sky"

The "charge the perp" was not made by any official so far/yet That I know of.

so I don't know what (if any) charges are being suggested as a result of the news copter crash. I don't have any solid opinion on whether or not such would be valid. You might notice that a long list of charges occurs with just about any such crime. How many stick is up to the courts. You might also notice that trial lawyers in their cases build up a long list of folks to go after. In a medical malpractice suit, you will see multiple defendants named. The lawyer goes for all he/she can in the hopes of getting the most money possible. It's then bargained down to create the perception that someone's getting a discount. The same with criminal charges. The list is picked at until some agreement is made between the attorneys. This insures that the only real losers are the victims and not the lawyers.

So do you think those charges should or should not be entered? Personally, I don't know how they could stick but wouldn't be surprised if the was an attempt give it a try. Police and prosecutors need all the help they can get these days. Getting a conviction....even when holding all the right cards....isn't a sure bet.

BTW. The whole thing was tragic and the story is no longer the crime itself but the crash. I suspect that, if a police officer had crashed and died in the pursuit, there would be less news coverage. After all, he was just doing his job. It could sound as if these news folks were also just doing their jobs. But, they were in competition for the best news footage. That could have contributed to the accident as they were jockeying for best position. I would also have to wonder who could be charged with a death if the copters took someone out when they hit the ground.

I don't think the guy should be held responsible.

Yes, he was committing a felony. If he had caused deaths on the ground directly or indirectly, then I'd say: Throw the book at him!

But, those news organizations and copters made their own decision to follow the story. There is inherent danger in doing so, and they know the danger and accept the risk. The responsibility rests there.

Cindi

As well, in the scenario I mentioned the news operation could probably be held liable for damage on the ground. My other thinking was that prosecutors might try to swamp the accused with charges they suspect won't stick just to get leverage in any plea bargaining. It's a stupid game.

I saw a story that showed the live footage of the incident and the radio chatter between the pilots and noticed something.
They were flying VFR - Visual Flight Rules in which the pilots are supposed to star clear of each other visually. The radio chatter appeared to show one pilot saying "I'm on top", meaning that he was above the other and they were separated by different altitudes. Then the other pilot said "I'm on top", meaning that he thought he was above the other. At this point, it would appear that both pilots thought that they were above the other and separated, while in actuality they were both at the same altitude and location.
Then one pilot radioed that the car had crashed. A few seconds later, one said "Oh Jesus...." and the video from the helicopter twisted and the feed was lost. I think that if two pilots both radioed that they were on top, that should have raised an immediate mental alarm bell in the minds of both pilots and indicated to them that they should immediately forget the car crash and look for and locate each other.
Bottom line, it may have been pilot error if they lost track of each other's location.

... that we should remember that...

First - the news choppers were following the chase as part of a money making enterprise. As such, it is hard to accept these people as simply innocent bystanders.

Second - The reason why such airborne chases have become so common is the popularity of these events with the viewing public. If we didn't clamor to see these chases then there wouldn't be a swarm of helicopters in the air, jockeying for position.

Yes, this is a tragedy. Yes, the guy that the cops were chasing appears to be a scum bag (see below)... but if you step on someone's foot at a public event and break their toe, or shove someone causing them to fall over a railing resulting in bodily harm, is it the entertainers fault or your clumsiness? If we insist on turning a police chase into an entertainment event, then this is a possible outcome.

I am curious... does anyone know if there was more than the 2 helicopters in the air monitoring the chase? I certainly saw air footage of the crash site after the accident.


Pursuit suspect could face murder charges in crash
Becky Bartkowski and Brent Whiting
The Arizona Republic
Jul. 27, 2007 11:28 PM

The suspect who led police on a vehicle chase Friday in Phoenix could face murder charges after two television news helicopters filming the pursuit collided in midair, killing both pilots and their photographers.

Police used tear gas, a dog and what they described as a less-than-lethal device to subdue Christopher J. Jones, 23, after a nearly two-hour standoff. Jones was treated for dog bites after his arrest.

He was in custody on Friday night on suspicion of two counts of vehicle theft, four counts of aggravated assault and one count of resisting arrest.

He could face harsher repercussions because the chase resulted in four deaths, Phoenix Police Chief Jack Harris said.

"I think he will be held responsible," he said.

An initial appearance hearing is expected Saturday morning.

Phoenix police said Jones was on parole and has a criminal record.

Police say Jones stole a utility truck shortly after noon near Seventh and Mohave streets in central Phoenix.

He fled in the stolen truck, ramming it into a police car near Seventh and Jefferson streets, said Sgt. Joel Tranter, Phoenix police spokesman.

The truck headed north on Second Street, near Van Buren Street, at about 12:19 p.m. A witness said that the suspect ignored a red light and sped through the intersection.

The truck eventually came to a stop at a construction site near Second and Clarendon avenues.

Once there, police say, Jones ran from the truck and jumped into a second truck.

Police seemingly had him hemmed in, but he drove off after colliding with police and civilian vehicles.

He then headed west on Indian School Road.

It was then that the two helicopters smashed into each other in midair, crashed and caught fire.

Police say Jones drove to a home in the 8700 block of West Encanto Boulevard, near 89th Avenue and Thomas Road, and locked himself inside at about 1:15 p.m. He was alone.

One witness, Susan Winkler, who lives in the neighborhood, said she was driving east on Thomas Road when the stolen pickup truck, which was towing a generator on a trailer, came barreling toward her.

The generator was flaming, smoking and fishtailing in the roadway, Winkler said.

She was afraid the trailer was going to strike her vehicle.

Police policy mandates that when pursuing a suspect fleeing in a vehicle, officers back off and either allow air units to chase the vehicle or other officers follow in unmarked cars.

these news choppers can get to the police copter...just like the rules about following an emergency vehicle on the highway. That 5-1 ratio could put the police in jeopardy of losing the chase.

There is nothing happening on the ground that should ever be an excuse for pilots not flying safely and being aware of the air traffic around them. If the reverse were true would pilots be responsible for every person driving along highways who look up in the sky to watch one streaking across to some new story site and miss a developing situation right in front of them which causes them to crash, maybe be killed? If one survived and said the accident on the ground was caused by the driver gawking at all the visually distracting helicopters buzzing around in the air, should the pilots be charged with murder? People are responsible for their own actions, not necessarily how others react to their presence. This isn't a case where someone was trying to flee a dangerous scene and ended up being hurt because of that. It's about at least two choppers (how many were up there?!!!) running TO a dangerous scene and then creating just as great a danger to everyone below them.

People should be held responsible only for their own actions and not for the foolish reactions of those around them, especially not those who were in no danger until they deliberately decided to enter the scene full well knowing the situation.

Maybe it's time the cities took some responsibility for policing the airspace over them and limit the number of airborne vehicles to what's necessary. There's no "need" for every news organization that serves some city area to have their own chopper or "eye in the sky" up there! If there is any "need" for the public and for news reporting it can easily be covered by just one or two choppers over a city, supported by all the news organizations and all of them getting the same video/sound feed.

The pilots are first to blame for what happened, and the city is next to blame for allowing such activity to take place above it. Maybe now Phoenix and other cities will take note of this and make some changes regarding what is and isn't allowed in their airspace. The various news organizations are also responsible for creating the situation in the first place. Let them all take video feed from one, at the most 2 choppers and not insist on each news channel having their own chopper up there creating greater danger above the city.

It's sad those in the helicopters crashed and died, but they killed themselves and no one else should carry any blame in it for their actions.

The phoenix was a mythological bird that after a long life would fall to the ground, or maybe was in it's nest, and then burst into flames, from which it would rise renewed. Here we have a city named after the bird, Phoenix, and two of it's birds fell to the ground in flames.