Thank you for being a valued part of the CNET community. As of December 1, 2020, the forums are in read-only format. In early 2021, CNET Forums will no longer be available. We are grateful for the participation and advice you have provided to one another over the years.

Thanks,

CNET Support

General discussion

Newbie to Linux and a my Issues.

Sep 12, 2005 3:01AM PDT

Hi All,

I have recently downloaded a few Linux Live CD's to have a mess around with and to look how Linux looks and feels, these being Topogolinux, Fedora, Linspire and Ubuntu. I was also brave and installed Mandriva 10.1 on my other PC to have a play around with.
The major difficulty I see from all of them is the complex issues associated with the internet and WLAN. I dont have the benefit of running a cable to my Network card so I have to rely on my WLAN for my internet connection. Having read several posts from all the forums on the above named Linux Distro's they all pose a problem. I could go out and buy an old 801b card that has Linux drivers available but it would be so nice to use the hardware I have. I can see that their are packages available to utilise windows drivers but when they describe how to install them and so forth I myself am lost in a myriad of Linux Jargon. Together with this Linux Jargon I see endless answers of opening a Command Prompt (to install software or to make certain programs work) and inserting text after text. Albeit I am great with the copy and paste function without the internet I cant even read the forum to copy and paste from.
Could anybody recommend to me a distro that is great for a Newbie and one that could quite possibly offer me my WLAN connection. From reading through the forums I see that NDSIWrapper is a popular software of choice and I see that my Trendnet WLAN card is supported or the Texas Instruments chip is but I will be buggered if I can get it to work and if at all I can find it in some of the distro's.
Many thanks in advance for any tips, helps or suggestions whether it be stick with Windows or come on climb aboard.

Chris

Discussion is locked

- Collapse -
What many expect is...
Sep 12, 2005 3:15AM PDT

Drivers for everything to exist. This is not true for Linux since you are part of the solution. i.e. if you want to write a driver and contribute it then everyone benefits.

For others the best thing to do is to research what cards are known to work with the distro they like and then install such a card.

Bob

- Collapse -
No disrespect but.......
Sep 12, 2005 5:47AM PDT

No disrespect to your knowledge both as a moderator and that of a computer professional but you insistantly answer my posts in riddles or not at all. I am a mere Newbie Linux user looking for help, what you have answered is probably correct but a.) it does not answer my question and b.) It is a typical reaction expected from one with all the knowledge. Forgive me but you never answer any topic I have seen with a direct answer. It is always one of a snobbish attitude. For my part I wonder how you ever became a moderator at all.

- Collapse -
Thank you.
Sep 12, 2005 6:38AM PDT

I can share that replies tend to be much harsher on USENET. If it upsets prospective Linux users that hardware isn't supported, then the communication wasn't done about what Linux is.

Linux is a great idea and more. But we can learn to live with it by doing a little research.

-> Your complaint about hardware support is widespread but doesn't help get the drivers written. Are you doing your part by:

a. Asking the maker for Linux drivers?
b. Supplying a card to a known driver writer for your favorite distro?


Some just complain. Some will contribute to the solution.

Bob

- Collapse -
On Bobs Defense
Sep 15, 2005 8:37AM PDT

I too have received help from Bob in the past and you are right about him not always giving a straight answer, but what good does it do you if he just tells you whats up. You then learn nothing. There are times when I would just like an answer but in the long run I learn a whole lot more by figuring it out myself. I just need a little direction sometimes.

My two Cents
Bryan

- Collapse -
Kanotix
Sep 12, 2005 12:24PM PDT

Chris, you might give the Kanotix LiveCD a try. It's supposed to have pretty good WLAN support and you'll know whether or not it fits your needs before you install it. Two things, the current version is 2005-3, but 2005-4 is due any day, and half their forum is in German so it requires a bit more digging for info you can use if you don't speak the language. Don't let Linux get you too frustrated. I'm a Linux noob too and sometimes it seems like learning the command line is like learning frigging Greek. http://kanotix.com/info/index.php

- Collapse -
Thanks
Sep 12, 2005 5:18PM PDT

Hi KevMo2,

thanks for that link, its just what I am looking for. I find consistantly with Linux that the offer of help is there but they do not take into account that a Noob has at times no idea of what the other person is talking about. I will give that Distro a try and let you know. Cheers Chris.

- Collapse -
Actually, we do know what you are talking about.
Sep 13, 2005 7:53AM PDT

Most of us went through the same thing. There are a lot of Linux users that have a snobbish attitude toward new users. But the majority are eager to help, they just can't explain it much better. There is a sharp learning curve to Linux,even the newer, user-friendly versions.
Basically, we can point you to information and hope you learn. It is frustrating at first. The more you learn, the more you understand. My first distro-Red Hat 9-I went to the library and found manuals, including Red Hat Bible. These taught me a lot. Wouldn't take it back till I had to, but by then, I knew which ones to buy. Good luck and come back often. chuck

- Collapse -
You're welcome
Sep 14, 2005 1:52PM PDT

Hope it works for you. Kevin

- Collapse -
Re: Newbie to Linux and my Issues.
Sep 19, 2005 8:01AM PDT

The problem is that the driver for the WLAN that ndiswrapper uses is the one provided by your hardware manufacturer for use with windows. I have come across one card where the supplied driver (on the CDROM) would not load and I had to find alternative copies and went to sites like HP, Dell, EMachine, etc to download the driver until one worked. These drivers will never be in the "live" linux cd (or any linux cd or dvd) as they are copyrighted code by the manufacturer. All the ndiswrapper does is load it into memory and make calls into the loaded image as if windows were calling it and differnt hardware drivers will have different milage on working features for that hardware.

If you have a floppy drive the driver for the wlan will ussally fit there and you can copy from your Windows to the floopy and then load it into the "live" linux system to be used. Be sure to have read the "howto" for the ndiswrapper (and maybe have notes or printed copy of it).

- Collapse -
Dealing with the still primitive state of Linux
Sep 23, 2005 8:28AM PDT

Hey Chris, just in case you have not found your answer here is my suggetstion: Try Xandros OS 3 Business edition. It is not free ( with Linux, you now know what "free" gets you) but it might solve your problem.

It is the most efficient distribution of Linux for the desktop. Check ( Xandros.com ) and the madpenguin.org review of this distro to get some ideas of what it offers. See:
( http://madpenguin.org/cms/?m=show&id=4419 )

The major problems for linux are the primitive state of device management and thus the lack of an efficient multimedia platform, and the problems of network resource management.

And don't forget that freedom in Linux means freedom from Microsoft not freedom to install whatever you want when you want it. You have not much choice here, but to install what has been gathered in a package for you. And if you venture to try yourself, prepare yourself (even if you are a programmer) for frustration and the dreaded "dependency hell" of Linux installations.

Here are a few feature from Xandros OS. I gave up on everything else:


Linux kernel 2.6.11
GNU/Debian-based distribution
KDE 3.3.0 desktop Environment
Windows Active Directory domain ready
OpenOffice.org 1.1.2/Sun StarOffice 7
Codeweavers Crossover Office 4.2
Novell Evolution 2.0.4 with MS Exchange
Xandros Antivirus 1.34
Skype 1.0 free Internet telephony
Adobe Acrobat Reader 7
Citrix ICA Client 8.0
xt5250 IBM 5250 terminal emulator
SAP Java Client for Linux 6.3.0r2
Xandros Networks software management
Wireless 802.11g support, including Intel Centrino with WPA
Wizards for VPN, firewalls, printers, etc. etc.

Good luck, Man.

- Collapse -
I agree with Jakem14!
Oct 17, 2005 2:19PM PDT

Try Xandros Business Ed Ver 3 or Xandros OCE (free version) from the download link on the left at the home page of www.xandros.com. Good Luck!

- Collapse -
Re: Dealing with the still primitive state of Linux
Oct 18, 2005 5:47AM PDT

Hi all ! I find your replay a bit frustraiting for a linux newbie and just a bit touched by bias.
It is not true anymore that linux is in a primitive stage ; but it is certanly true that it`s one step back in getting to work bleading edge hardware devices. This is due to the lack of interest of hardware manufactures that do not provide linux drivers for their products. Nevertheless, this is also changing due to the big interest and support that linux is gathering from many national and regional public institutions and private corporations.
Every day you can find more hardware supported by linux from the box, it's just a matter of asking for it, but it's obviously less confortable than just buy anything you like. (also for W-lan)
If you choosse one of the latest linux distros from one of the mayor players, the totally free suported versions (Fedora Red-hat, openSuSe, Ubuntu, etc. ) and you relay on the update sources they provide I found it difficult to belive that you end up in any trouble.
Some of them provide live_CD versions, so you can test in advance your hardware compatibility, and by the way, the core of the system is the same for all of them (the linux Kernel) and once one distro implements a hardware driver is a matter of a few days to find an update in your own distro.
I am talking from my own experience.

So, please, don't scare linux newbies

- Collapse -
Jakem14, do you work for xandros?
Oct 20, 2005 9:50PM PDT

I mean, seriously, the free (in both sences of the word) distros are not that hard...

- Collapse -
You asked a while ago, but still...
Oct 20, 2005 9:39PM PDT

I know that you first asked over a month ago and you probably will never read this, but in the chance that you might or somebody in your situation asks, this is a tip on receiving more useful help.

1. Even though you are anonymous, follow the basic rules of civil human interaction. Do not complain. Complaining will not get you any help. Be polite and do not lament the current state of linux; GNU/linux works very well if you devote as much time to learning is as you devoted to learning windows (which was probably more than you realize). Complaining that it is not user friendly will usually get you flamed because it indicates (perhaps inaccurately) that, rather than trying to learn a new OS and eventually become a contributing member of the GNU/linux community, you are trying to get windows without viruses for free. If the former is what you want, drive on airborne. If the latter is what you want, buy a Mac.

2. Provide information about your hardware, and what is going wrong with it. If you do not know how to find this, ask how to figure it out.

3. Before asking other people to donate their precious time helping you, be sure that you have prepared yourself. While most GNU/Linux users will not tell you to RTFM (which is frustrating to newbies who often don't even know how to read the man pages), a hour or so on google and some active forums related to your distro may solve your problem and if not guide your question in the right direction. Believe me, if you have not tried to figure it out on your own it will show in your question and you will appear lazy, whereas most of the people you are asking to help you have taken the time to learn. You appear to have done some research in this case, but this leads me to my next point:

4. If you want to use GNU/Linux, you will have to get comfortable with the command line and text configuration files. In many cases there is no Graphical User Interface (GUI) that does what you want. Sorry, but this is just a fact of life, and it is like this for good reason. Many command line tools are just much simpler and flexible (and better) than graphical front ends. Rather than trying to cut and paste, you should try to understand what people on the forums are telling you to do; then you will not have to memorize things. This requires you to learn new tricks from the ones you used under windows, but even for the home user this is in the end often a better way of operating. I suggest you print out or make notes from the forums you have found and then try to boot into your GNU/Linux and fix it (a tip: if you are not sure what a command does or why you have -xvqf behind the command, type "man [command name]" and you will get a manual page telling you everything there is to know about the command). It will be a good learning exercise for you anyway because as soon as you get your WLAN up and running the next thing you are going to want to do is configure your firewall and all the "best" firewalls (like shorewall) require you to edit the configuration file in a text editor and test it from the command line.

That is all i have to say... good luck!