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Question

Newbie needs info on lossless conversions

May 10, 2011 4:42PM PDT

Running Windows 7 Ultimate and using Panasonic HDC-TM700 camcorder.

I have recently started using the above camera. It creates files in MTS format which look to me to be near broadcast quality. Is there a way to create lossless conversions to other formats? If so, what are my format options and what programs would I use?

So far, I have tried a few (trial) programs downloaded from the 'net and I have Nero 9 on my computer, all of which have produced conversions of very disappointing quality.

Discussion is locked

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Clarification Request
Re: converting
May 10, 2011 5:50PM PDT

Why do you want to convert if they are of so good quality now?

Kees

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Objective
May 11, 2011 3:56AM PDT

To clarify my concerns: The limit of my video experience is absolutely to having held a camcorder and pressed a button and aimed.


I have learned this about editing digital stills: If one edits a
compressed image (JPG, for instance) and saves the work and does this a
couple of times, artifacts (image degradations) begin to become
apparent. So, if one intends to edit and doesn't want to lose quality,
conversion to a lossless format needs to be the first step.

The same has to be true of videos as they are simply a lot of stills 'glued' together.

I have two distinctly separate jobs in mind at present:
1) concerning the new digital videos I make with the camcorder, cutting scenes and pasting them together
2) Another involves some old Super 8mm (film) sound movies that I have
re-recorded to digital. They have a 'hot spot', brighter in the center,
that tapers to darker at the edges. I want to correct that hot spot.


I have never edited a digital video in my life. I know absolutely
nothing about it. I don't know anything at all about the software
required, let alone how to use it. I have never even been present on a
premises where video editing has been done. I don't know what formats
in digital videos are considered lossless.


With my limited knowledge, it just seems logical for me to first learn
what formats are lossless and how to get there with my videos.

From the answers I've gotten so far, I'm beginning to think that a
lossless format might not exist. Either it doesn't exist or I just
don't understand anything at all about what I'm reading.

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Answer
I agree with Kees_B, and have
May 11, 2011 2:08AM PDT

a few comments...

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Confused
May 11, 2011 4:06AM PDT

Somehow I am reminded of an occasion when I was helping a friend learn how to use his new computer. In his frustration, he said to me, "I don't want to know how to do it; I just want to do it.".

I'm even more confused.

The limit of my video experience is having held a camcorder and pressed a button and aimed.


I have learned this about editing digital stills: If one edits a
compressed image (JPG, for instance) and saves the work and does this a
couple of times, artifacts (image degradations) begin to become
apparent. So, if one intends to edit and doesn't want to lose quality,
conversion to a lossless format needs to be the first step.

The same has to be true of videos as they are simply a lot of stills 'glued' together.


I have two distinctly separate jobs in mind at present:
1) concerning the new digital videos I make with the camcorder, simply cutting scenes and pasting them together, other than that, no image manipulation
2) Another involves some old Super 8mm (film) sound movies that I have
re-recorded to digital. They have a 'hot spot', brighter in the center,
that tapers to darker at the edges. I want to correct that hot spot.


I have never edited a digital video in my life. I know absolutely
nothing about it. I don't know anything at all about the software
required, let alone how to use it. I have never even been present on a
premises where video editing has been done. I don't know what formats
in digital videos are considered lossless.


With my limited knowledge, it just seems logical for me to first learn
what formats are lossless and how to get there with my videos.

From the answers I've gotten so far, I'm beginning to think that a
lossless format might not exist.

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I'll try...
May 11, 2011 5:05AM PDT

Good that you have learned what compression can do to stills. If you must have lossless stills, you capture in RAW - not JPEG. There is no equivalent "RAW" format for video. The data file size would be WAY to large to manage. Quick math: My little Canon PowerShot can take 8mp stills. In round numbers, it can capture images around 1 meg each - and as JPG, there is some compression. NTSC standard video = 29.97 frames per second; referred to as 30 fps. so... 1 second = 30 frames = 30 meg. You can finish the math to get to a minute or an hour. Now... since you are familiar with stills, do the same activity and use the image size associated with RAW stills. And - in case you were not aware, even some RAW is compressed... The compression method varies the loss.

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Expounding:
May 11, 2011 5:17AM PDT

You said: "So, if one intends to edit and doesn't want to lose quality,
conversion to a lossless format needs to be the first step".

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Answer
Just thoughts.
May 12, 2011 1:30PM PDT

About loss-less. There is such but it's quite expensive and only rented. Here's BIG RED. -> "RED uses a sensor measured at 4520 x 2540 pixels, more than 5 times the
number of pixels of the very best HD camera and, most importantly,
records the signal as RAW, similar to a DSLR, with no color sub-sampling"
More at http://www.red.com/faqs

It's about 25K bucks in case you were wondering.

Yes, there are such things out there.

But reading what you want to do with that reduction of the hot spot I strongly suggest you go OLD SCHOOL with a old analog light filter and the usual old school transcription methods.
Bob

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Old School -- Analog Filter
May 12, 2011 5:47PM PDT

I have thought of that very thing; but, I cannot find an optical-quality, neutral-density filter that is graduated from center to edge anywhere on the planet. I've been asking about such a thing for years of everyone whom I think has any photographic experience. And having been at one time a freelance photojournalist, published in People Magazine, CBS 60 Minutes, Time Magazine, London Sun, Melbourne Times Herald, India Times and a host of countries totaling over 40, I know a lot of photographers.

If anyone here knows of such a filter, I sure would like to know where I can get one.

As for filtering the light source, granted, it would not have to be optical quality; but, I cannot figure out how to insert a home-made gelatin filter between that super-hot projection lamp and the film inside my Super8 projector without frying the filter and ruining the projector. Even if heat were not a problem, I cannot see how that could work.

I intend eventually to send these old Super8 films to a pro lab for conversion to digital. But, they are irreplaceable so I want as good a copy as I can make before shipment to ward off catastrophic loss in the event any of the films are lost.

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That's one way.
May 13, 2011 12:24AM PDT

The other way is to go ahead and digitize the content and then start the learning process about what they call "post production", "digital effects" and more.

Once you have a solid copy in digital form you have time on your side to create or find an app (or write one!) to correct the issue you are seeing.

As to filtering the light source, that's a much better idea than a filter after the projection. As to what to use, the old school was a glass slide and "smoke". Then you use swabs or what works to get the smoke where you want it and how much you want it. Glass and smoke on the glass should withstand very high temps which is why they did it like that back then. Back then is from Edison to today!

Even so, I like the idea of capturing it and then beginning the process of finding and learning digital post processing or production.

Bob

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Answer
Lossless 'work around' for AVCHD files
May 20, 2011 1:30PM PDT

I recently purchased a Panasonic HDC-TM900 camcorder. If your goal is to show your video's without coming directly from your camcorder, you can 'burn' your AVCHD (.MTS) files to a standard DVD. Because it is high definition you will not have the loss you are experiencing currently.