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General discussion

NEW Vista start up problem

Jul 1, 2008 2:41PM PDT

Here's the deal. Over the course of several weeks I've been having hangs when Vista starts up. On the BIOs screen, during the loading of the OS and on the desk top. It will hang in excess of 5 minutes at all three of these locations. The problem moves around. Also I've had problems installing a hard drive. All of these are USB related. The hard drive would not install with two USBs in the PC. The hangs are associated with a document text in the PNY 4GB attache Ready Boost USB I have permanently installed in my system. The document has been deleted. I have removed the second USB. The system is booting again correctly but I believe this is short term and will return. Anyone have anything on this? Looks like a driver problem in the OS to me. Might be a hub problem or something related.

Discussion is locked

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Also having
Jul 1, 2008 2:52PM PDT

numerous .sfcache consistancy checks. The results of these test are what's being stored in that document that has to be deleted to make the system run correctly.

The USB is less then 4 months old. Again, I'm showing problems with several USBs, not just one.

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Showing
Jul 2, 2008 2:31AM PDT

user-mode driver crashes in event viewer.

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It works! I have proof!
Jul 4, 2008 6:02PM PDT
http://img365.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenhunter02jul050338ng3.gif

It seems I've converted a Ready Boost USB (J: drive) too an SSD to run virtual memory. I'll call them MicroMiniSSDs, for, Micro Mini Solid State Drives or mmSSDs for short. Grin Catchy name, kind of cute. Happy Cutes Ok some times. Grin

About that problem I was having. Two things 1) there is a KB, KB 940199 that does not load that is supposed to fix it but no go, doesn't install. It comes in two versions 32bit and 64bit I choose 32 since that's the OS I have. 2) USBs are usually used as archive files so this has to be disabled in the properties of the USB, just unclick the box. USBs configured to run virtual memory are not archive files but fully functioning drives with full read/write capabilities. After making this change the system is responding much better but still a little buggy but I'm still working on it.
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Oh? What conversion was made?
Jul 5, 2008 1:00AM PDT

All the Reliability and Performance Monitor screenshot shows is J: containing a file or directory that beginfs with "Read," most likely standing for ReadyBoost. That's the default behavior, so I don't see where any "conversions" have taken place.

Also, on the archive front:
1.) You didn't disable it...you simply changed the file properties of the files already on the flash drive.
2.) Archive files are fully functional and possess full read/write capabilities. If you browse the contents of your hard drive you'll find that most files have the archive flag set. It simply indicates whether the file has been changed since it was last backed up, with the backup application wiping the flag. (It facilitates incremental backups and nothing more.)

John

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I am correct
Jul 5, 2008 3:13AM PDT
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/features/details/readyboost.mspx

A full conversion has been made. You just haven't realized it yet. This USB has been configured as virtual memory only. The entire USB is in use. With ready boost "only" a portion of the Drive is used as "Ready Boost", not all. This "all" is being managed by the system and is virtual memory. Unfortunately you can not see how much faster it is.

http://img184.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenhunter01jul051259oh8.gif

I am however beginning to show some anomalies that are being watched carefully. This is especially true when using 3D graphics. Ready boost does not effect 3D graphics.

Glad you saw the post John.
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That's not true...
Jul 5, 2008 5:06AM PDT

1.) With ReadyBoost you can select how much space you wish to allocate...anywhere between 235MB and 4GB. The adjustable amount is a standard feature.

2.) A SSD is generally defined as a storage device using persistent, flash-based memory that can effectively replace a standard hard drive without loss of functionality. (Some also state it match a list of specific dimensions, add it could include volatile storage, etc.) While it is possible to build a SSD using flash drives or memory cards (in fact, last week Cnet showed how for just a couple hundred dollars), having a USB drive sticking into a standard USB port doesn't qualify, even if you changed the settings. One of the simple tests: Install Windows on it, with no hard drive connected.

John

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Ready Boost maximums
Jul 5, 2008 6:13PM PDT

I believe that says 2840 MB.

http://img68.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenhunter01jul060337jx5.gif

I'd define an SSD as a chip to chip connection used for hard drive/storage purposes. The standard drives are mechanical with a platter that rotates and a swing arm that retrieves data. SDDs do not require these mechanical components that slow the I/O processes to and from the hard drive. The general concept is the same as the new SSD drives but on a much smaller scale. There fore "micro mini". Someone was simply ahead of the curve on this one and has out stepped me. I'd like to make them available to everyone without a second mortgage on the house. Simply running virtual memory on a USB SSD would speed things up greatly, extend the life of hard drives and reduce heat within the system.

SSD drives:

http://www.sandisk.com/OEM/ProductCatalog(1388)-Vaulter_Disk.aspx

First line of description says "Flash based memory".

Do you have a link to that Cnet article/video? It would be appreciated.

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See the video
Jul 5, 2008 6:30PM PDT

Those OS files there talking about are also called virtual memory. I'm spot on with this one John. We can all have SSDs very soon in a limited capacity. I'm not proposing that general files and folders be used with these micro mini SSDs just virtual memory. I'm sure you and I want the same thing a PC that works well and is fast, fast, fast. Happy

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Here's the Cnet article
Jul 5, 2008 6:37PM PDT
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ReadyBoost...
Jul 6, 2008 2:18AM PDT

1.) Reformat and try again. See Tom Archer's blog on the capacity matter.

2.) A true SSD cannot be connected by USB at this time. Again, prove me wrong by, for instance, installing Windows on, and running it from, the flash drive.

3.) Don't forget what I previously stated about a flash drive failing in a short time if you use it for direct virtual memory storage. (Hint: It's why Microsoft's engineers shouted 'NO!' at the idea.) Bad idea!

4.) You still haven't stated how you supposedly converted your flash drive into an SSD. So far all you've said is you have a standard USB flash drive and called it a "MicroMiniSSD."

John

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Looks like a looping argument to me.
Jul 6, 2008 3:24PM PDT

No one will win this one.

I've figured out the video problems. One I had cleaned a cache recently so this was the problem. The other was an on going Adobe Flash player problem that was not apparent at first.

By the way, it working great as an SSD. It's working just as it should OS programs and the net working well, very, very fast. Secondary programs, files and folders loading slowly because there being retrieved from the hard drive. Exactly what it's supposed to do.

You are correct about that USB failure problem so at this point I'll have to hold off on disabling my hard drives virtual memory but will reduce them as low as possible. This will create a backup should the USB fail.

A note: This is personal project of mine and should not be attempted by new users or some advanced users. This is not a "standard operating procedure" (I believe Microsoft calls them "best practices") and should be avoided if your not willing to reboot your OS or suffer some data lose. This method has the possibility of considerable risks.

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It's an unaddressed argument...
Jul 7, 2008 2:21AM PDT

You didn't address three of the four points in my previous post. Specifically, you offered no information on how you supposedly converted your flash drive into an SSD, did not address the missing functionality that differentiates a run-of-the-mill USB flash drive from an SSD, or comment on the 4GB maximum that's usable on a properly-formatted USB drive. It's only a looping argument when the answer results in the original question being asked again. In this case it's a series of questions followed by a series of comments that don't address those questions. But at this pace I agree, "No one will win this one."

John

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By the way,
Jul 6, 2008 3:46PM PDT

just a week or so ago I saw a Cnet video on "how to install windows on a USB drive". I can't find it. Damn! Cnet's data base search is nearly as bad as Microsoft's. Nope, on second thought, no data base search is worse then Microsoft's, by far. Geez, you'd think they'd have that figured out by now. Isn't Bill Gates looking for a project at M$? Grin

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Success, did it!
Jul 27, 2008 3:27AM PDT

It was the Ready Boost USB. And the fix......(drum roll)....... delay the start up in services of Ready Boost. This work for both for Ready Boost and mmSSDs (Microscopic Miniature Solid State Drives <<< concept by dango517 Happy ). BTW, John I have a surprise for you, too, proof!. Happy Patience John, patience. Grin John must thinks the world should have been invented in 5 days not seven. Geez.....

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Let's see...
Jul 27, 2008 6:11AM PDT

1.) It is written that He created the world in six days and rested on the seventh. Thus, that phrase should have been "John must think the world should have been created in five days, not six," not "John must thinks [sic] the world should have been invented [sic] in 5 days [sic] not seven."

2.) ReadyBoost is a technology (software implementation) while mmSSD is your own term for an SSD, a piece of hardware. Thus, saying "this work [sic] for both for [sic] Ready Boost [sic] and mmSSDs" is much like saying "this works for both Windows and hard drives" or "this works for both Linux and speakers." It doesn't make sense.

Glad you fixed the problem you had with your computer, but proof that you actually did more than change a few software settings, like millions of others users, is most effective when seen.

John

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You'll see
Jul 27, 2008 12:55PM PDT

1) Then John would have wanted it done in 2 days

2) Both Ready Boost and SSDs use solid state USB chips to gain performance increases. Ready boost adds software to the Operating System to effect the operation of this hardware. My mmSSDs changes preexisting software settings to effect the use this hardware. The difference being that Ready boost is a software service added to the OS that improves RAM performance. My mmSSDs allow the USB hardware to run the PC's virtual memory within it. Virtual memory is normally ran off the internal hard drive within the PC. Hard drives are slower then USBs in there Read/write performance, also referred to as I/O performance, this referrers the speed at which information is written too or from the hard drive.

Whether or not I am successful is not important. What is, is that the idea is going around and someday some one or some corporation will achieve this and bring low cost SSD support to the OS and hard drive. Perhaps the concept is more important then results by me here on Cnet.

Unfortunately one can't patient an idea/concept.

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Let's change that too
Jul 27, 2008 1:13PM PDT

"What is, is that the idea is going around and someday someone or some corporation will achieve this and bring low cost virtual memory support, via USBs, to the OS and hard drive."

The results being:

Faster read/write abilities for virtual memory.
Less ware on the hard drive.
Cooler overall system performance because the hard drive is used less.
A low cost PC improvement for the masses.

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Still not right...
Jul 28, 2008 5:32AM PDT

1.) SSDs are NOT, and do NOT use, "USB chips." SSDs have varying interfaces, from PCI to SATA, and use memory of various types to provide persistent storage.

2.) ReadyBoost does NOT add anything to the operating system. That is because it is, in fact, part of the operating system, which is why you cannot add ReadyBoost to Windows XP, for instance.

3.) ReadyBoost does NOT affect RAM performance. It affects the speed at which data can be accessed from the paging file by caching some of the contents on the flash drive.

4.) Flash drives do NOT have better I/O performance...they're slower. Flash drives only show improvement with regard to seek time. That's why ReadyBoost defers large sequential read/write operations directly to the paging file on the hard drive...it offers better performance. I already explained this previously in an e-mail to you when you began this excursion.


Bottom line: Internal SSDs offer better performance and lower power consumption than traditional HDDs, and will eventually replace HDDs in the consumer market. That's just a matter of time for wide-spread adoption and decreasing prices. All you've done is move your paging file to a standard, store-bought flash drive using a setting provided by Windows. And, as I've said before, doing so defies the logic which compelled Microsoft to design ReadyBoost as they did. Whether or not you are successful is important...it affects your computer's performance and the longevity of your flash drive, and it goes to the heart of what you claim to have invented.

John


P.S. You affect the concentration of the batter to change the effect of the game. You also cannot patient an idea/concept, but you sure can patent a process or device design, even if conceptual.

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This ends here
Jul 28, 2008 9:44AM PDT

In a "tug of war" two are required. I quit. I'm not the one wrong here, John. Do more "home work".

This thread untracked.

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Sorry, just stating the facts...
Jul 28, 2008 1:59PM PDT

-> I asked you specific questions, several times. You refused to answer.

-> I pointed out fallacies and mistakes in what you wrote. You didn't address those comments.

-> I cited a few sources, between this thread and the e-mails. You haven't.

-> You stated you had proof, but then refused to show it.

Much like the RAM topic last month, I've done the homework, correcting the mistakes you've made in fact, logic, and grammar. Sorry, but while I agree that "in a 'tug of war' two are required," it's on you.

John

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note reguarding [sic]
Jul 27, 2008 1:36PM PDT
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Do you think there is some significance in that
Jul 27, 2008 2:00PM PDT

six days and rested part? Why the rested part? Or maybe it could be phrased like this ........ John, how many days do you work a week? John replies .... I work 5 days a week and rested. I'd say "huh!" and look at you oddly. Must be more to it. Grin

If I were Him, I would have given myself a month off, maybe two. Happy

Do you think He's disappointed in the way it turned out?