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General discussion

New to Home Theatre

Jun 2, 2008 4:55PM PDT

Hi, I'm relatively new to home theatre and i just had a couple of questions i was hoping someone can answer. Im looking to for a setup with a plasma tv (at least 50"), surround sound (5.1/7.1) and a PS3 and an xbox 360. I want this all integrated together and possibly the addition of HD satellite/cable.
1) TV: I was looking at getting a plasma tv ad i had narrowed it down to the Pioneer PDP-5010FD & the Panasonic TH-50PZ800U. There both 1080p tvs with great aspects to each of them. I was wondering whether or not the there is an immense difference btwn the 5010FD and the 5080HD. And is there possibly a better tv out there as ive only really looked at reviews on Cnet.
2) A/V receiver: This has been the hardest thing to research on the internet. Ive been looking at receivers (Denon, Yamaha) in between the range of 500-1000$ and I need to know what would be best for me. I want all the new features I want a receiver the will be future-safe and will work perfectly with the rest of the components. Will I be able to plug in my ps3, 360, HD satellite and my DVD into the receiver without any problems? Im especially concerned about lag when it comes to the video games. Will I be better off with my 360 connected via hdmi or component. To sum it all up, I want something mid-range that will do everything I want it to, and wont be inferior technology within a couple of months. This is where I'm most confused so can anyone make some recommendations.
3)I havnt really looked into speakers but i think this will probably be the easiest part. Just incase, can some1 post a short guide into what I need to look for? THANKS IN ADVANCE!!!

Discussion is locked

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Home Theater
Jun 3, 2008 1:21AM PDT

There are many things I could write here but I would recommend hiring someone locally to help you who knows what they are doing. For instance I would recommend a 7.1 speaker system because that is what most all the newer movies are mixed in, BUT it depends on the layout of your room. Is your seating area up against the back wall? Is it a small room? Same with speakers, is it a large area where you are sitting 20 feet from the speakers or a smaller area where a good bookshelf speaker system would work better? Same with receivers, do you need more power for playing the system louder in a large room with floor standing speakers? As far as the tv goes I would recommend the pioneer pdp 5010, it is 1080p, you won't have any issues with playing video games. When it comes to home theater systems speak with someone locally from a custom install store who knows about the performance of systems and rooms who can recommend a system that would work best for you. I'm not trying to say anything bad about bigger box stores but all they are interested in is selling you a system. They won't take the time to come to your house, go over house plans with you, recommend what is best for you. I don't know how many times I walk into a bigger store here and overhear the salesman saying "you don't need a high end bluray player like a denon, just buy the ps3, it's all digital so it doesn't matter" or "This Bose speaker system is awesome, it's much better than B&W". I'd much rather deal with someone who has experience, training, knowledge, and caring like a smaller store employee or store owner rather than a high school kid who can't wait to get off work and who doesn't know what a crossover is. Also usually a smaller custom install store will have better brands to choose from that are "higher end" but are similarly priced to a larger chain store. I hope this helps out. There are many variables to this type of industry and system. Hopefully this will at least steer you in the right direction. Good luck

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The receiver is meant to perform in a neutral manner, so the
Jun 3, 2008 1:44AM PDT

speakers are the source of nearly all what differences there can be with the sound part. So they may be the hardest part because they will require personal attention to select intelligently. And the speakers may seem expensive up front, but not in the long run as they don't just wear out or need replaced as soon as the electronics will.

You really need to develop an idea of your maximum budget. It adds up because you want to do a lot with this project. Fortunately the HDTVs have become much more affordable, but it's up to you. The money does add up quickly. For example, I would be happy to not break the bank & get a 720 Panasonic 42" plasma from Costco for $949. Fine performance in my opinion & bucks to use elsewhere. A PS3 will take care of your HD disk needs for the time being.

That said, your term mid-range is still a bit vague though you use it to indicate being practical. My, & quite a few others here consider HTiBs to be a short run solution that many use, but they all have some considerable compromise of quality in the attempt to do a lot for a tight budget. We can aid in getting started searching for separates that will be better for the money providing the budget is reasonable.

Folks often are attracted to considering fancy receivers up front & actually many wind up overbuying receivers relative to skimping on speakers for the sound.

Post back to let us know where you are heading. Another example of choice is that I would go for 5.1 sound with better speakers rather than 7.1 of the same budget. I believe most DVD movies are still 5.1 rather than 7.1 In any event several here will strongly urge a somewhat expensive sub woofer for essential HT surround effect. I can't argue with their logic. A few makers specializing in sub woofers make the best & there are a lot of lackluster sub woofers out there. They will post with recent subwoofer special deal pricing.

There are a lot of decisions to make but the project can proceed one step at a time. First priority is let us know your realistic maximum budget so advice can be appropriate.

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and toothless
Jun 3, 2008 6:29AM PDT

First of all, regarding #3, I vehemently agree with Bill's statement. The speaker selection is by far the hardest part. I would even say 10x harder than #1 and #2 combined.

jason asks good questions:
1 Is your seating area up against the back wall?
2 Is it a small room?
3 Same with speakers, is it a large area where you are sitting 20 feet from the speakers or a smaller area where a good bookshelf speaker system would work better?
4 Same with receivers, do you need more power for playing the system louder in a large room with floor standing speakers?


I'll add some more, and while it may not appear so, all of these have pertinence to speaker selection, and electronics as well:

5 How many ft do you sit from display?
6 How wide is the viewing area, for how many people?
7 What is the VOLUME of the room, and is that "open" or "closed"?
8 Are there size limitations to any of the speakers and or subs?
9 Are you ok with having an upright bookshelf for a center speaker?
10 Would you even be willing to store components off to the side to allow ideal speaker configuration? would you be willing to use three towers in the front, with display just over the center tower?
11 Budget for speakers + subs?

If you answer all 11 questions, I will more likely to continue to help you. Though more questions may be thrown your way. To give you an idea of why we need such info, the amount of power you need to buy make force you to skimp on features. We haven't even touched VP. The type of viewing angle could force serious considerations on speaker configuration. The distances involved will have a large part in narrowing down not only power, but also speaker choices. The size and volume of the room will force serious considerations on sub selections. List goes on.

If such questions seem unnecessary to you, that's fine. Though you certainly won't spend your money in the most efficient manner in that case.

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Response
Jun 3, 2008 2:52PM PDT

OK so it turns out i dont know as much as i though i did.
I havnt bought any of the component at all yet, which is why i posted this thread to get some opinions.
To answer all our questions:
1- the way I plan to set everything up i say the seating directly in front of the display will be about 10-11 feet back. Im still deciding whether i should set the tv up facing the room lengthwise (seating not against the wall) or widthwise (seating against the wall). Either way it will still be about a 10-11' viewing distance. Is one of these configurations better>
2-Its my family room and it isnt too big, yet it isn't small either (18' by 13') the room does have 2 open entrances no opposite corners, but i plan on putting heavy curtains to prevent sound from escaping.
3- I think in a room this size, a bookshelf system would be more appropriate but i can see having two floor-standing left and rights speakers for the front, not for the centre though as it would look awkward with a wall-mounted plasma.
4-Seeing as im new to this, Im not sure what kind of power i would need to have a good home theatre experience in a room this size. I do want something a little on the powerful side so im not really sure.
5-10 feet
6-Im assuming this is the seating off to the sides of the room (not directly facing the tv). The distance between these seats will be about 12 feet)
7- answered above
8- No size limitations, but i dont wanna go overboard, looking for something thats a perfect size relative to the room.
9-In a perfect world, i would prefer front speakers that i could "hang" around the display without them protruding out too much.
10- I was planning to store the components on a shelf off in one of the back corners in the room anyways so i dont see this being a problem. I dont think i would want the three tower configuration in the front though.
11- Ideally i would want a budget for the speakers + receiver to be about 2000. I am willing to go up to 3000 for the speakers + receiver if it means i am sacrificing quality though.

Thanks for all the advice ppl, theres no really good tutorial on all this on the web so im glad i came here before going to bestbuy and having some phony telling me whats good. I dont mind answering more questions if u have any. Thanks!

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Quit hating on BestBUy
Jun 4, 2008 1:48AM PDT

My store offers excellant service, and We DO offer in home consultations. If your local store has a Magnolia inside, check out this audio system.
Denon 2808
Definitive Technology Towers 7006's
Pro800 Rear Surrounds
Pro1000 center
Pro1000 sub
That will get you a decent system for about 3grand, its all deftech.
Depending on your taste for receivers you could go Denon 2808/Pioneer Elite 92.
If you want to stick to your 2grand budget also listen to a Klipsch surround system, make sure the Klipsch is the Reference series (models all start with the letters RF-).
If you cant have floor standing speakers, you can go all Definitive Pro800/Pro 1000 and hang them all, Mirage Nanosets can be hung, and so can the Klipsch Icon series speakers.
Every combination has a unique sound, it ultimately comes down to what you like that sounds great for movies and music. Any of those 2 receivers can do 7.1 but based on your response I dont think you have a room that can do it.
Tv choice should be easiest part, 50-58 plasma. Check out any of the Pioneer/Panasonic 50's.
FYi for the Money the Ps3 is the best Blu-ray player available.
Start off at non-commissioned stores to do your research, and then take your knowledge to commissioned based stores so you dont get "whacked"

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my response
Jun 4, 2008 7:01AM PDT
1- the way I plan to set everything up i say the seating directly in front of the display will be about 10-11 feet back. Im still deciding whether i should set the tv up facing the room lengthwise (seating not against the wall) or widthwise (seating against the wall). Either way it will still be about a 10-11' viewing distance. Is one of these configurations better
Yes, for audio. Length-wise. Also for the possibility for rears, but that's just a side bonus.
Personal educated opinions: You are going to want at least 60", and that's at 10 ft, let alone 11. However, sitting at about 38% particularly or perhaps 1/3 of the room is best to avoid as many modes as you can (audio). 38% is not exact, but the accepted blind recommendation, as it is always room dependent. So, try placing yourself a touch further than 11ft from display. Assuming 18' L, for that is 38% from rear wall.
link for viewing angles:
http://myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html

2-Its my family room and it isnt too big, yet it isn't small either (18' by 13') the room does have 2 open entrances no opposite corners, but i plan on putting heavy curtains to prevent sound from escaping.
Its not so much about sound escaping. Or if it is to you then... well, don't expect curtains to stop lower frequencies. Anyways, its more about sound absorption. Some use diffusers, but don't worry about that.

3- I think in a room this size, a bookshelf system would be more appropriate but i can see having two floor-standing left and rights speakers for the front, not for the centre though as it would look awkward with a wall-mounted plasma.
Why would it look awkward? You prefer to have a bunch of electronics lit up in front of you when you go to a movie? Nevertheless, having identical speakers is truly ideal. As for horizontal centers, please search my posts. I've been advocating upright centers for nearly as long I've been posting here. There are only two noobies that I know of that have applied my recommendation, one at a different forum, and one personal friend as well. Its vastly superior, and cheaper. Ok, so you have in mind a horizontal speaker? Hmm... can you do identical bookshelves all around?
Otherwise, all of the best HTs use identical front speakers. Period. Try searching top 10 theaters on AVS, or any search like that, and see how many non-identical centers you find. Its what is recommended. All of the best multi-ch music systems use identical front speakers. Its what is recommended. It would be a dream fulfilled for me to be able to do so. Unfortunately, for me, AT weave screens don't come as big as I need (without the gain), and have exorbitant costs. If I was in your shoes, its a no-brainer. Not a moment's hesitation. Of course Id get three matching speakers.

4-Seeing as im new to this, Im not sure what kind of power i would need to have a good home theatre experience in a room this size. I do want something a little on the powerful side so im not really sure.
Biggest factor is how loud you want it. Next factor is distance... at say 12-15 ft from mains... not very close at all, but not necessarily needing something tremendously ridiculous. Not advocating over-kill here, but it's very dependent on the speakers you choose as well, with the above in mind. If I assumed your ceiling was 8' high, and it was closed, it would be a normal-ish room. Since its open, I might recommend something better than entry level subs from respected brands. Personal viewpoint, your call.

5 How many ft do you sit from display?
Gleaned from #1.

6-Im assuming this is the seating off to the sides of the room (not directly facing the tv). The distance between these seats will be about 12 feet)
That's quite a wide viewing angle. If you want the least compromised dialogue and audio for all viewers, an upright speaker is mandatory. Outside viewers are close to 60 degrees, which is really the very outside limits of an upright speaker. A typical horizontal mtm speaker? Try 20 degrees, typically.

7- answered above
Not really, you need 3 #s to get VOLUME. Notice the word was already capitalized in the question. Its ok, enough info for now.

8- No size limitations, but i dont wanna go overboard, looking for something thats a perfect size relative to the room.
That didn't answer the questions whatsoever, well, to my present preceptions. Its ok, you answered a lot more than I expected.

9-In a perfect world, i would prefer front speakers that i could "hang" around the display without them protruding out too much.
???

10- I was planning to store the components on a shelf off in one of the back corners in the room anyways so i dont see this being a problem. I dont think i would want the three tower configuration in the front though.
Fair enough. Hey, you're the one that has to look at it. 3 towers is my dream come true.

11- Ideally i would want a budget for the speakers + receiver to be about 2000. I am willing to go up to 3000 for the speakers + receiver if it means i am sacrificing quality though.
Great budget. I recommend at least $500 on sub. If you didn't hate the idea, subs in pairs is best for ideal response. NO, its not only about louder. At any given volume, two subs will have flatter response. OK, NM. Its all about where you want to spend it. If you bought hi-end speakers, they often present lower impedances and beefier voice voils, which IMO means you would want better than bottom-of-the-line power section of any receiver.

Anyways, the more you narrow down what you want exactly, in terms of specific audio performance, physical dimensions, or how much you want to split that budget up towards electronics of audio, speakers, sub, 5.1 or 7.1, or willing to add pieces later upgrading over time etc.... will narrow down the choices. Well, it will at least narrow down my own personal recs.

More questions:
-5.1 or 6.1 or 7.1?
-bookshelves desired for all positions? (please note that nice looking stands are not exactly cheap)
-do you have a place for electronics with ample ventilation, particularly for receiver, and most particularly above the receiver/amp?
Anyways, you can search my recent posts for my recs du jour
(they change).

Thanks for all the advice ppl, theres no really good tutorial on all this on the web so im glad i came here before going to bestbuy and having some phony telling me whats good. I dont mind answering more questions if u have any. Thanks!

The #1 thing that people get saved from by researching in advance of the BB visit is Monster HDMI cables. #2 is other cable products by Monster. My opinions on #3 and 4 are with less conviction, I spare you. There are stories of customers spending as much on Monster cabling as their speakers, sub, receiver combined (even if just htib, but still....). I most heartily recommend Monoprice. If you have long runs of HDMI, say 50 ft and greater, I may recommend spending more on Blue Jeans. Just don't buy Monster from BB/CC unless you enjoy being raped. Well, the last time I bought Monster, it was open box on a pair of RCA cables, like $8 or something (same price as Mono HDMI).

Depending on the speakers you choose... power considerations:
Yamaha 663 for $400 for easier load audio wise. +$200 then Onkyo 805. +another 200 then Yammy + Emotiva amp. +another few hundred, perhaps Yam + Outlaw. +yet another few hundred, I'd start fiddling with Rotel, NAD, Sunfire. You very well might not need greater options if dynamic range desired is modest, listening distance is modest, easy to drive speakers, etc. Anyways, SPEAKERS FIRST. Repeat after me... speeeaaakeerrss fiiiirrrrssttt....

Best sub you can find from SVS, HSU, Epik, Elemental Designs for the money. Some are uglier than others. Of course, you might find good deals on B&M brands such as Velodyne or Martin Logan. However, Velodyne's best was not really designed for output so much as accuracy (I mean the DD series, way past budget anyways). I'd love to recommend my JL to you, but that's your entire budget right there.

I also often recommend the used market. I've personally bought refurbished, demos, used, open-box, b-stock, superceded in the last year. Typically, 40% savings is about the goal when doing such (relative to what people actually pay, not just relative to msrp). If you're lucky, 50%, or at the very least 25% or so.

Hope this helps expand the horizon of considerations a bit.

-jostenmeat