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New Build Help

by Probe47 / July 3, 2010 5:45 AM PDT

Building a simple box for a relative. (MSI 870A-G54 AM3 board. AMD X4 635, 2GB Corsair Ram, Gigabyte 4550 Video Card) Put it all together and no post or video. everything spinning, lights are on. Put the video card in the other PCIE slot, no change; try another video card same result. Try a different PSU, no change. So I swear for awhile and ask Newegg for a RMA for a bad board. Then I think, why don't you I try the other new AM3 board(GigaByte 770TA-UD3) I just received. I get the same response. No post and no video. I'm thinking it must be something I am doing but I have replaced just about everything with no change. On the second motherboard, I never put it in the case. Just placed it on the case, installed the CPU, Heat sink, Video card and RAM. Any suggestions on what I could check/fix or did I just get lucky and buy 2 defective boards. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

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may sound like stupid questions
by Brechan / July 3, 2010 6:21 PM PDT
In reply to: New Build Help

Any beeps?
What type of memory are you using (DDR2 or DDR3)?
What size are the PSU's are you using?

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Re New Build
by Probe47 / July 3, 2010 10:41 PM PDT

I am using DDR3 memory and there are no beeps at all(that is what I mean when I say "No Post")

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MSI Mainboard Troubleshooting Link
by Brechan / July 4, 2010 4:44 AM PDT
In reply to: Re New Build
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Re: New Build Help
by Probe47 / July 4, 2010 7:27 AM PDT

More questions:
What version is your BIOS (should be on the box label)? No BIOS on the box
Have you connected the 8 pin PSU connector? I have the PSU connected to the 8 PIN connector
Have you double checked (triple checked) that everything is connected? 3 or more times
Is the current hard drive SATA II or SATA III (this board only supports SATA III)? The SATA drive would be SATA2 but I am using an IDE drive to initialize it.

My problem is no post or video. I am not far enough along to work on the other problems that may occur such as installing Windows 7. Without a Post(beeps) or video I cannot tell what the problem is. I have even tried a straight PCI card with no better results. The only thing I have not changed is the CPU and I think I would still get something if that was bad. This always the problem with a new build. All the parts are new so it hard to determine which part is the problem.

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No POST ? Also no mention of....
by Papa Echo / July 4, 2010 1:44 AM PDT
In reply to: New Build Help

... the Operating System... you have forgotton to install, say, Windows ?

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Addendum
by Papa Echo / July 4, 2010 1:50 AM PDT

Check also the CMOS battery - drained ? or have you also forgotton to fit in one ? [installing Windows comes next]

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Here the main problems I detected right from your post.
by LucJPatenaude / July 4, 2010 12:06 PM PDT
In reply to: New Build Help

First of all, you do not have enough RAM. Make sure you can insert two RAM cards of the exact, same FSB speed. It is to make a Dual Channel synchronizing effect. 2 cards at 2Gb each(total of 4Gb).

Second, make sure your graphics/video card is in the PCI-Express x16 expansion slot. And, it has a minimum of 512Mb of graphics/video reserve RAM processing ability. Power connectors to it also.

Third, a good PSU of 350watt is recommended and, required is some cases. Mainboard has to me grounded via the interior of the case.
And, that the case has a very good air intake + an additional ventilation side panel air intake fan. CPU plaque has its on top of it's cooling fan. The graphics/video card came with its own embedded fan for its own cooling of its own processor. Make sure they are, also, plugged in in their respective connections onto the mainboard.
Reason: These new computers generate an enormous amount of heat. Therefore, the overheat safeguards might autoshut it down right away as soon it detects too much heat generation coming from it all.

Fourth, plug the main power connector cable to the main outlet of the mainboard's power distributor(should be a 16pin one). Connect the optical drive to the SATA connector and the Hard-Drive to the other SATA connector of the Mainboard. Note: make sure the PSU switch is at off position before plugging in the main power cord to it. Using a surge protector multi outlet pad, plug the whole thing in(exeption of the monitor one. Connect all other sound system, keyboard, mouse, gamepad and, printer hardware units, in.

Fifth, power on the monitor to see if it is in stand by. So, it can tell you if there is no signal coming from the PC machine's video port. Power On the main switch of the PSU. Wait a few seconds and, use the front of the case's main power switch to power it all up.

Sixth, you should see a very brief response from your DVD drive's LED light and, next, the Hard-Drive's LED light. You might have to force the DVD drive to do a let go of its disk tray via the emergency eject button right next to the standard self powered button of disk eject/insert. Or, just try the drive's eject button. Once open, insert your O.S. disk and wait for its autorun program onto it for loading up in memory of your machine's setup files to, now, run, and start the O.S. installation procedures.

Hope this post guides you through all this hard procedure of setting up your own, latest, rig.
Wink

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Sorry, I see problems with your conclusions
by Brechan / July 4, 2010 9:16 PM PDT

Here is the link for the MSI mainboard in question http://www.msi.com/index.php?func=prodmbspec&maincat_no=1&cat2_no=&cat3_no=&prod_no=2057

1st: 2GB's of RAM is adequate to not only POST, but also for installing the O/S (when and if he gets to that point).

2nd: He has put the video card into the PCI-E slot, and he has tried to put a PCI card into the PCI slot to see if the PCI-E slot is defective.

3rd: We (fellow posters) are still unsure of the PSU's he has tried, as we have not been told what wattage or what brand he is trying to use.

4th: There are 2 main power connectors for this board (see link); one is a 24 pin 12 volt, the other is a 8 pin 12 volt. The poster is trying to see if the components are working without putting it into a case (such a hassle when testing), many other builders have and continue to do it this way.

5th: There is no use connecting the monitor (at this point), if the mainboard will not POST-no beeps.

6th: At this point; it is best to keep the components to a minimum (no DVD ROM, monitor, mouse, etc.), this makes it easier to pinpoint which component is faulty.

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Re: New Build Help
by Probe47 / July 4, 2010 10:36 PM PDT

The PSU's that I have used are either 500 or 600 watt (I is a Rosewill, the other is OCZ).
The first time I tried this build I did put everything nice and secure in the case but the second time it was not worth it to see if I could diagnose the problem. I have been build for lots of years and these problems are the worst because you are working in the dark. All new parts and you cannot figure outs which is causing the problem. I did try the mobo, CPU & PSU alone and get 1 long beep (Award Bios). I am leaning toward the CPU now since I have replaced just about everything else. I just have not had a new bad AMD CPU before usually it is the board.

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has to be the CPU
by Brechan / July 4, 2010 10:54 PM PDT
In reply to: Re: New Build Help

I think you have (through much work and trouble shooting) finally found the problem component; which we probably should have seen from the start, as you have listed all possible alternate work-arounds.

1) Started with the original components-no go.
2) Swapped out the PSU with another-no go.
3) Swapped out the mainboard with another-still no go.

So there is only 2 components left, either of which may (or probably) be faulty...the CPU or the hard drive.

I congratulate you on your diligence in trying to solve this issue; many would have given up at this point and either bought a new retail computer, or taken the works into a shop and let them figure it out.

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An answer without Speculation
by w_tom / July 4, 2010 11:48 PM PDT
In reply to: Re: New Build Help

You have swapped part using a technique called shotgunning. Therefore are confused. Everything began on a list of 'unknown'. What devices are now moved from 'unknown' to either 'definitively good' or 'definitively bad'? If none, then you have accomplished nothing. That is the problem with shotgunning. Confusion with no accomplishment.

You have no reason to think anything is good. Normal is for a defective part (ie power supply) to boot and operate a computer. Normal is for a good supply in one system to fail in another otherwise good system. These realities that are denied to justify shotgunning.

To have facts. To do what is said in CSI, "Follow the evidence". Start with a 3.5 digit multimeter. Either borrow one or get one from most any store that sells hammers. A multimeter is about as complex as a hammer. Sold in K-mart. Or $18 in Wal-Mart. Necessary to 'Follow the evidence'.

Set a meter to 20 VDC to measure a purple wire from power supply to motherboard. Access each wire where it enters the nylon connector.

That purple wire should measure about 5 volts. Record the number to 3 digits. Next measure the green and gray wires both before and when the power switch is pressed. Again, record to 3 digits. Also notice the response as the power switch is pressed.

And finally measure voltage on any one red, orange, yellow, and purple wire after the power switch is pressed.

Did you know your system has a power supply controller? That controller controls whether a CPU can execute. A critical function unknown to anyone who shotguns.

Learn much more only by measuring with numbers. The better informed cannot reply if you do not provide useful facts. Move parts from the list of 'unknown' to a list of 'good' or 'bad'. Results mean facts and numbers. Shotgunning, as you have learned, creates confusion.

Get a multimeter so that the next post is an answer - without wild speculation.

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This is state-of-the-art Mainboard-Just read its specs.
by LucJPatenaude / July 5, 2010 4:12 PM PDT
In reply to: New Build Help

1st: I was totally right about the minimum of a Dual Channel RAM Cards-DDR3-Only(with the ability to make a second Dual Channel expansion for more RAM). A total of 4 DIMMS on-board. You will, now, need to buy another RAM card of the same speed as the first one.

2nd: This is a 'Crossfire' type of Dual Channel PCI-Express x16 graphics/video cards to be interconnected for a one monitor use. Now, you will need, a second graphics/video card and an interconnector cable to join them to create the crossfire DC effect.

3rd: Needs SATA3 cables from both of your storage drives for its SATA3 connectors.

4th: An AM3 socket that requires no bigger CPU than Phenom 2(Quad core with an amazing FSB speed)

5th: Mainboard has max. speed of 5200 MT/s or 2600 FSB(back and forth data transfer rate). I recommend 2 RAM cards at 1333Mhz for optimal data transfer/storage.

6th: As long as the PSU has a 24 pin power connector, the other cables will be provided automatically.

7th: This a board made for Win.6 and 7 only. XP is not recommended.

8th: The board's Bios needs to be flashed, a.s.a.p. and, a lot of 2010 drivers are available for that very same AMD 870 Chipset. Although Realtek might have way better drivers for its 3 types of on-board chipsets(Sound Adapter ports).Live Update 4 program is available for going online rapidly to get the latest Bios version and installs/flashes it for you. How Nice!

9th: Two utility tools are now, available: AMD Core Unlocker and Overclocking Center. Download and install at your leisure.

10th: LAN chipset included on-board with its own RJ-45 port for immediate I.S.P. LAN cable connection to the service's modem/router combo. unit.

Thanks for link, speculation is, totally over. This is to be printed out and followed through as meticulously as you can do so.

Enjoy this newest S.o.t.A. machine's final assembly! Wink

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Thank you for the specs
by Brechan / July 5, 2010 5:40 PM PDT

But all of this is irrelevant if the board won't POST.

1) Just because the board has dual-channel DIMM slots does not mean that all slots have to used; once he has gotten the board to POST, flashed with the latest BIOS, installed all necessary programs (including an O/S) and utilities, then he can (if he so desires) install more RAM.

2) Just because a board is Crossfire or SLI does not mean that anyone has to have dual video cards in order to make a monitor work; I myself, have a 'Crossfire' board and I don't need to have dual cards running in crossfire in order for my (single) monitor to work.

3) Granted he doesn't require more than a dual-core CPU for this board (or any of the AMD boards); but the fact is, that he has chosen to go with the better (faster) quad core.

4) Just because a board has a 24 pin (12 volt) power connector; if he had been using a lower powered PSU, some don't 'automatically' come with a 4 pin or an 8 pin power connector http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817339004 check the Specs, no 4 or 8 pin power connector.

O/S at this point is irrelevant (see first line).

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First find a problem before fixing it.
by w_tom / July 5, 2010 11:21 PM PDT

As Bechan noted - and still some do not get it:
> But all of this is irrelevant if the board won't POST.

POST works without any memory, with or without any IDE connections, without any operating system, without any BIOS upgrades, etc. POST only needs two things. A speaker and power connected to a motherboard with a CPU. Only then will the power supply controller let the BIOS execute. Computer does not even need a keyboard to execute. The OP said, "No post and no video." That means all those other 'suspects' are obviously irrelevant.

Provided is how to have an answer using well proven diagnostic procedures. Or what is called "Follow the evidence". That means no wild speculation about a network card, Ram, or even a power supply. That means first seeing a problem long before even disconnecting one wire. And no shotgunning - ie fixing Windows.

It is a power supply system. Includes a critical function - the power supply controller. Why do so many post and not discuss that critical component? It means numbers to see a problem before fixing it. And to see when a problem is actually solved.

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different components, same CPU
by Brechan / July 5, 2010 6:54 PM PDT
In reply to: New Build Help

and did you use the same IDE hard drive each time?

I would try this next; disconnect all but the core components (PSU, motherboard, CPU/ heatsink, RAM, and monitor), then see if it POST's. If it does, then you know for sure it's not any of these core components-and it is the HDD at fault, then I would connect a new SATA3 HDD (as per the MSI board specs http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136533 ) to the motherboard, and see if it still POST's.

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Just realized what the word POST meant.
by LucJPatenaude / July 9, 2010 4:28 AM PDT

You meant that when you first power up the machine it shows, on the screen, a self-test and Bios ID # as it was installed/flashed upon making that specific MB in the manufacturer's factory line.

Sorry man, that no longer happens with these super advanced mobos. It automatically skips to the Logo page that tells you to press the Del. key if you want to enter the Bios setup page. After a few seconds, starts loading and executing the current installed O.S.(Win 7 in this case).

That IDE connector is not meant as a primary HDD, bootable one. It is only used for the internal back-up(often smaller HDD)drive. You will have to use one of the SATA3's connector ports. Primary drive on first port, Secondary drive on second port and, tertiary drive on the IDE port. New designs of mobos, totally new and different functionalities out of them.

Sorry man, you will have to clean install your Win. 7 copy of your O.S. onto your newest HDD that requires a SATA3 cable connection as suggested Brechan's link to a highly recommended one.

Hint: The SATA3 cable might have come within the mobo's packaging box.
A nice booklet came with lots of other parts for a proper installation in the case of such mainboard.

Note: I, personally have not seen such a self-test POST screen in about, say, a good, 5 years or so. Win. XP-SP2's time period.

Hope that clears a lot of confusion and despair. Good Luck! Wink

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POST must always Exist
by w_tom / July 9, 2010 6:01 AM PDT

[quote]I, personally have not seen such a self-test POST screen in about, say, a good, 5 years or so. Win. XP-SP2's time period.[/quote]

It always exists and must exist. For example, code to just setup the PCI bus is about as large and complicated as DOS. That must execute before looking for any boot device ? regardless of what you see.

Long before the BIOS even knows what hard drive to look for, it must complete a POST. That includes accessing the video card typically in video mode 3 or 7. And that means testing numerous hardware items before even looking for memory, boot devices, or other peripherals.

The OP said, ?No post and no video.? That means it does not even look for a boot device ? let alone boot from one. No speaker beeps? Then the CPU is probably not executing even one instruction. Suggests the power supply controller does not permit the CPU to do anything. Going after other suspects is nonsense. If the power supply controller does not permit the CPU to execute one BIOS (POST) instruction, then the BIOS will not even beep a speaker. POST must execute no matter what you observe.

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Re: New Build Help
by Probe47 / July 9, 2010 10:24 PM PDT
In reply to: New Build Help

Figured out the problem. The board was bad and needed to be RMA'd

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What was her status exactly?
by LucJPatenaude / July 12, 2010 3:48 PM PDT
In reply to: Re: New Build Help

Bad circuitry design, bad BIOS or, worse?

Do not tell me, burnt/fried upon arrival/reception of your mobo's packaging. Ah man! That truly sucks!

That happened to me, about 7 years ago. Bought it from TigerDirect.ca's for not too much money + shipping and handling. Phew! Thank God! Only about 50$ for it, taxes included. Was a Soyo Branded board too. Never shopped and bought anything from them ever since.

What are your plans? Now? Making sure it is a reliable store and, that, it is a pre-assembled one, also? Well, I do hope so. I, personally, quit thinking about showing off, my abilities about making my own machine from scratch. These computers grow in power so fast, that a mere 2 years after(2010) I bought the Dual Core machine that I use right now, a Triple Core with 5 times the FSB on-board is available for the same, exact price I bought the 2008 one. A mere 500$ to 600$ for it.

Not building it yourself, a very good idea, trust me on that one, I do, really know. A lot less money and time spent on assembling her and, way less unnecessary risks taken. Only the wealthy and rich people can afford to take high risks of losing a lot of money at showing off their flair for the innovative high-end electronics' type of stand-alone PC.

Happy Shopping! Wink

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