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General discussion

need suggestions for a camcorder with great sound capture

Apr 4, 2011 8:23AM PDT

Hey guys,

I need to buy a new camcorder with good image quality and excellent audio capture quality.

I will be using it to record live concerts in my locality. Since they are live concerts there will be heavy music all around with huge speakers surrounding me.

So my first requirement is that the camcorder should be able to pick up clean sound from these speakers around and be able to eradicate noise.

I don mind buying a production mic for this purpose...i just surfed the net and found various types of production mic...please recommend me the type that will be apt for my needs.

I previously had a similar concert in my locality and i tried recording with my phone at 720p..the video turned out decent but the audio sucked(full of haze and noise)...so i hv learnt from my mistake and hence i need a camcorder with very good sound quality to record live music concerts

My budget is anything upto $400-450 at most. I would prefer the one which will have full HD support if possible in the budget.

The camcorder should also have decent battery life...atleast 3 hrs of continous recording.

Higher Zoom and other features are not needed but will be a plus if possible.

This will be my first camcorder and i will be using it for atleast 5 yrs from now.

For info : I'm using a quad core with 4 gigs of ram..so rendering and handling videos wont be a problem..Feel free to suggest any high end model.

Waiting for the replies guys....Thanks

Discussion is locked

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What I *think*
Apr 4, 2011 2:31PM PDT

you *really* need is manual audio gain control. In your price range, the only "cameras" which come to mind with that and even comes close - with high definition video capture - is the Zoom Q3HD. The Q3 and Alesis VideoTrack are standard def only (I think).

An external mic, alone, will not resolve the oversaturated audio caused by the automatic audio gain control being overwhelmed by the too-loud audio.

Beyond your budget, there are a few consumer cams... Sony HDR-HC9, HDR-CX500; Canon HV40, HF S2xx series... Then the prosumer SOny HDR-FX7, HVR-HD1000... several others.

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12
Apr 4, 2011 10:52PM PDT

Well i didn't like the q3...so i m extending my budget to $600(for mic and camcorder together)

"An external mic, alone, will not resolve the oversaturated audio caused by the automatic audio gain control being overwhelmed by the too-loud audio."

Wont a good external mic help ? What else do i need to get the audio right ??

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A good external mic
Apr 5, 2011 2:20AM PDT

can help - if the audio levels being recorded are usable. The (audio) problem with *most* cameras and camcorders (and cell phones) in the less than $800 range is the lack of manual audio gain control.

There are multiple options around this lack of built-in manual audio control, but the $ might get in the way.

1) If the camcorder (or camera) has a mic jack, but no manual audio control, then some method to control the audio gain is needed. If you get a good mic, they generally use XLR connectors - not the 1/8" (3.5mm) stereo connectors consumer cams use. An XLR adapter (juicedLink, BeachTek - among others) goes between the mic and the 1/8" connector. The XLR adapter has gain control knobs that reduce the audio information getting into the device doing the recording.

2) Use whatever camcorder you want - but record the audio externally - synch the audio and the video when editing. Use of an audio "field recorder" with manual audio control would be appropriate. Zoom H1, H2, H4... Edirol, Tascam, Marantz, lots of other manufacturers...

Generally, referring to recording a "local concert" means several things... Most especially, the music is REALLY LOUD. That muddy audio recorded is the over saturation of the too-loud audio onto the audio track and the auto-mic gain being overwhelmed. The static is "peaking". Basically, the auto gain control freaked out and the audio went past "over saturation".

I have successfully recorded screamer bands (and rock and pop, etc.) with both internal camcorder mics and external stereo mics. When the audio is really loud, the difference in the quality of the recorded audio when comparing the built-in mic vs external mics (or field recorder) is negligible. The "quality" difference happens when correctly using the manual audio gain control (bypassing the automatic audio gain control).

Since you want "best", a stereo mic, or a couple of decent condenser mics in a X-Y configuration will provide stereo separation you will not get from a mono mic.

My frame of reference and kit built over time:
Camcorders: Sony HDR-HC1 and HDR-FX1
XLR Adapters: BeachTek DXA-6 and juicedLink CX-231
External stereo mic: Audio-Technica AT-825
Audio field recorder: Zoom H2

Consumer grade camcorders are "affordable" for lots of reasons. They (along with cell phone video) are designed to behave in a narrow window of use. Loud audio falls outside that "narrow window of use".

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12
Apr 6, 2011 5:55AM PDT

Hey thanx for the reply.

After surfing around the net and looking at my budget, i have decided to get these two things.

1. Rode Videomic --> $120
2. Sony HDR-CX130E/B --> $463 --> http://www.adorama.com/SOHDRCX130BE.html

Looking at sony camcorders specs..it says it has a 3.5mm mic input and has an inbuilt zoom mic. What exactly is a zoom mic...? Will i still need an xlr device such as bechtek to improve the audio experience or will the rode videomic alone be suffient.

I havent used a camcorder before so i didn't understand the audio gain thing. Does the sony one has a manual gain control option...? i couldnt find it in the specs.
will appreciate if you can go through the specs.

Just for info : I would prefer buying a PAL standard Cam.

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There are always upsides and downsides...
Apr 6, 2011 9:04AM PDT

First, links to the manuals:
http://www.docs.sony.com/release/HDRCX130-CX160-CX180_Handbook.pdf
http://www.docs.sony.com/release/HDRCX130_EN_ES.pdf

The Sony HDR-CX130 is basically an entry level consumer cam. While it does not have very granular manual audio control, it does have a "Normal" setting and a setting for LOUD AUDIO (Set the MIC REF level to low when recording loud audio - see page 74 in the handbook). Manual audio control is not normally listed in the specs which is why you could not find it.

A "zoom mic" is a marketing term for providing audio pick up directionality from far away. For your loud audio environment, it is irrelevant. When you plug in an external mic, that "feature" will be disabled.

PAL is normally outside North America.

The RODE video mic is fine. It is a mono mic. I prefer music in stereo - but that's your choice. The RODE video mic uses a 3.5mm connector and will plug right in to the CX130's stereo mic jack. Heads up: under certain conditions, mono mics plugging in to a stereo jack send audio only to one channel being recorded. This may not happen to you. Test it.

The HDR-CX130 does not appear to have an accessory shoe. If you are planning to mount the mic to the camcorder, there is no way to securely do so. Using a camera bracket like
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/133276-REG/Bescor_VB50_VB_50_Universal_Shoe_Mount.html
This one has two accessory shoes - you can see the one on top, but not the one on the side. You *might* not need both accessory shoes, but the handle really helps keep steady when holding the camera with two hands, and if you dcide to add a video light, you are all set. And it can all be mounted on a tripod if needed.

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123
Apr 7, 2011 9:46PM PDT

Thank You Sir for the very detailed response.
i have checked the handbook but there are certain reviews on amazon which claim that the camcorder leacks a mic input port despite sony clearly *stating* on their spec page there is a mic input port.

Anyways, after surfing up some stuff on the internet i also found this one LEGRIA HF M300 which has manual audio controls. This is for $700 but i don mind it coz i rather struggle now to spend a few more bucks then regret my decision later Happy

This one also has an accessory shoe and as per the canon website..one can also connect an external mic for 5.1 sound input. http://www.amazon.com/Canon-SM-V1-Surround-Microphone-Camcorders/dp/B0034AJ89M/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

How much of an improvement will i see with this one over the cx130 ? Is it really worth the extra cash..?

I see various stereo mic on the internet like audio-technica and others which are sold well under $100 whereas something like rode videomic which is just mono is sold for $150 ? Which one should i prefer here...a $70 stereo mic or a $120 mono mic and or a 5.1 mic like the one above.

My main aim is that the mic shouldnt overload and the sound recorded should be clean in the concert scenerio.
One more advantage that the m300 has is it has a headphone out port which will also allow me to listen the action live and how it is getting recorded.

Looking forward to your suggestions. Thanx

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The Canon
Apr 7, 2011 11:01PM PDT

HF M and HF S series are pretty good. They would have been recommended earlier, but due to your budget, were not available to recommend. Now that the budget has changed...

With a larger lens filter diameter and larger imaging chip, there will be a noticeable difference in low-light performance over the previously mentioned camcorders. (Under good lighting conditions, any camcorder can get good video.) Don't expect the low-light behavior to be like a camcorder with a 72mm filter diameter and 1/3" 3-chip array, but it will be pretty good.

As I said, I prefer stereo for music - but other than you'll be recording concerts, I don't know the environment. Close to the audio and stage or far away? Remember, the mic is only one part. Use the manual audio gain control. When the camera is put in that mode, an audio level meter will appear on the LCD panel. It should normally be in the 3/4 area with peaks above that. When it pegs the top, the audio track is getting saturated and muddy audio will be recorded. Using headphones is a good idea. The ones with noise cancellation will be best since the live audio could be loud. I found some Maxell headphones a while back for around $40 that do fairly well.

As for any 5.1 surround mic... most editors can deal with that audio very well. If your goal is to record and do no editing, then that's cool. If you do any editing, check with the video editor you plan to use. Many cannot deal with 5.1 audio.

While we're here, what are you planning to edit with and on? AVCHD compressed video requires a VERY robust computer and use of an editor that can deal with MTS files.

A tripod or other steadying device, case, and high capacity battery from Canon will round out your "kit".

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Ideal Combination ?
Apr 8, 2011 2:57AM PDT

Thanx for the reply.

Low light shouldnt be much of an issue ...worst case i can just buy a video light and overcome the problem Happy

Let me now describe the recording environments.

1. Big open ground(nearly the size of football feild)...with huge speakers all over spreading the sound accross the whole ground. I will most probably be close to the performers and try finding a place as close as i can to the nearby speaker. (But expect there to be loads of audience noise as they will be singing along as well)

2. A Big Closed Air Conditioned room (size of about a 4 bedroom hall flat)..again the performers will be singing and playing the instruments along and big speakers will be spreading the music all around the room. Again finding a place close to a speaker wont be a problem.

3.Ocassional reviewing of the new gadgets that i will be buying and posting up vids on youtube...so no recording conditions here...any decent cam will do the job.

Here is my computer config.

Intel q9650 quad core @ 3ghz and 12 mb l2 cache.
Intel dg45id mobo with IEEE-1394a and Esata ports.
4gb transcend ddr2 800 mhz ram ( 2x 2gb each - dual channel)
Seagate 1 tb sata 7200rpm 3gbps
Nvidea 9600gt 1 gb graphic card (can this help in taking some load of the cpu while encoding ?)

I have Sony vegas pro and pinnacle studio 12 to take care about the editing needs. Happy

So, i dont think encoding/rendering files will be of any issue.

I just went through the canon manual
http://gdlp01.c-wss.com/gds/1/0300003141/01/hfm31-m36-m300-m306-pim-en.pdf
and they have very clearly stated on how to go about manually managing the audio levels.

basically its just that you make sure the audio meter doesnt go red and stays in the yellow area(-12db mark ) as per manual. There is also mic attenuater which can help reduce the volume..so thats pretty much how you do it right ???

So now only concern is finding a good external mic..i guess 5.1 should be my best right now?...please suggest me the best one available..(preferebly under $150)

i will also need suggestions for a higher battery...not sure how long the stock battery will hold up....the concerts can go as long as 3 hrs..so i want the battery to hold up for 3 hrs at a stretch without probs.

Right now i m not sure what format i want the output file to be...i know mts files can get as long as 13gb per hour but thats a later thing..if the quality is really good i wont mind them being 13gigs an hour...i m gonna watch them on my comp and on my tv...lets see what all options i get later on.

So now i have $1000 for the full kit

lets say...$650 for the camcorder
$150 for the mic
$100 for the sd card
$100 for battery and tripod probably.(have to get the headphones later i gues)

If you were in my place what would be your ideal combinition in the fixed budget...i m open to suggestions for a different cam as well.

Thanx for the all help so far Happy Looking forward to your suggestions..Cheers!

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You are referring to
Apr 8, 2011 11:12AM PDT

3 very different extremes. There is no "ideal". Sorry.

The easiest will be just using the camcorder's built-in mics, the manual audio gain control and lifting the camcorder above the crowd. This is a physics issue. If there is noise between the mic(s) and the audio source, it will be recorded. Period. In loud audio environments, surrounded by crowds of people, there is no mic/camcorder combination that will eliminate the crowd noise. Get the "noise" away from between the mic(s) and the audio source, then the "noise" can't get recorded. A shotgun mic will have very limited results - they are designed to be directional - and be less than eight feet away from the audio source. If you (and the camcorder and the mic) are less than eight feet away from the audio source, chances are high that the framing for video won't be very good.

Your computer looks to be fine for AVCHD assuming the versions of Sony Vegas (and Pinnacle Studio) are new enough to deal with the MTS files - you can look that up at the manufacturer's sites.

I am confused. You said want no crowd noise, then you want 5.1 audio. This is contradictory. A real 5.1 mic set up provides recording "surround" - that is, the audio surrounding the 5.1 mic. If the audio is in front of the camcorder (and mic) that would be left, center, right audio. The rear left and right are next two. The .1 is the low-end bass. The crowd will be behind you - but you don't want to record crowd noise?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.1

You are close on the camcorder's audio meter. As you get used to the camcorder's nuances, you can refine the controls.

The camcorder manual has a page indicating what battery comes in the box with the camcorder - and what the various optional batteries can provide. There should be a table
http://gdlp01.c-wss.com/gds/5/0300003135/01/hfm30-m31-m300-nim-en.pdf
is the link for the NTSC version - the power requirements for the battery selection will be the same.
Page 17 shows what is in the box.
Page 196 has the various battery record times. They use "average" recording for on/off many times. Get a larger battery - your recording will be continuous and not "average". Hopefully you are not zooming - at all or v e r y s l o w l y. The BP-819 looks like it will work - according to the table - I suggest the BP-827... from Canon. But you have not budgeted enough.

13 gig per hour video is very compressed for high definition. Standard definition DV format video onto miniDV tape does nearly 14 gig per hour. If you want "best video quality", LESS compression is "best", but the files use LOTS of space. In your case, refer to page 60... You will want a 32 gig card. Record in MXP or FXP only.

The files rendered for playback by a computer, for use with a DVD player or Blue Ray player, uploaded to a video file sharing site or on a personal media player (iPod) will all be different. There is no single file that should be used for everything. After editing, export to the different files depending on the device doing the video playback.

Computer: high quality AVI or MOV h.264 or MP4 or DIVX or several others.
Standard def video for DVD - the DVD authoring application takes a high quality AVI or MOV file and renders a VOB file for burning to a DVD that can be played back in a regular DVD player - this will not be high def video.
Video sharing site: medium quality AVI or MOV in h.264 compression... or MP4. I generally do 1280x720 frame size - aspect ratio.
Personal media player - depends on the unit. My iPod Touch likes specifically rendered MOV files.
BluRay players can deal with AVC/h.264 compressed video for high definition.

I'd like to understand the expectation you think you will be getting out of all this. If you are expecting professional, broadcast grade, stuff you need to know that the pros use multiple cameras that *start* at about $40,000 each (and don't use consumer-grade AVCHD compression); the cameras' mics (if they even have any mics) are not used for the audio. The mics they use - if they are not doing a proper board mix where EVERYTHING on stage is mic'd and audio is captured on a separate system independent of the video feed - start at about $2,000 each... I don't want to discourage you - but please keep things in perspective.

As for the "Ocassional reviewing of the new gadgets that i will be buying and posting up vids on youtube...so no recording conditions here...any decent cam will do the job"... assuming the lighting is good enough for the camcorder's capabilities and the audio environment is OK... For this, I would use either a shotgun mic or a wireless clip-on lavaliere. Being stereo for a person speaking is not usually a requirement.

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The final Kit
Apr 9, 2011 11:20PM PDT

Thank you again for your detailed response and valuable input.

Just to clarify the confusion...i want to record the background noise as well. But since i will be closer to audience than to the speakers I dont want the noise to get louder than the actual singers. I will be using a wind muff to eradicate the wind noise. The ideal composition of the sound levels should be like this - 70% actual singers...29% crowd..1% of other noise like camera movement, wind etc.
As suggested by you, I will try to get a long stand so that the camcorder is as high as possible to minimize the crowd noise...and find a place as close as possible to a nearby speaker.

So with this requirement will a shortgun stereo mic be better or something like the canon 5.1 will do a decent job ??

The 1st two requirements that i listed above are very similar...just the difference of location...but the sound levels and type of music and crowd noise will be nearly the same.

the 3rd requirement is not really a requirement...I currently use my cellphone to shoot 720p videos and the video and audio recording is decent enuf to put on youtube. Just that with the camcorder, it will get better so i will use the camcorder instead.

Although for most part of my recording the camcorder will be held in one position and focused only on the singers but i will also be doing the occassional zooming in/out, tinkering the manual audio controls etc..so the "typical" usage as per the manual will be a better estimate of my requirements...so a bp-827 battery will fit my requirements. Its only $115 at amazon..so that should be fine.


A 32gb class 10 card will be more than enuf. I dont think i will see much of difference between mxp or fxp. But again i can still afford mxp as 32gigs can record for 2 hrs 55 mins...but sticking to fxp will make more snese. Will a class 10 card probably be an overkill...??

For now the playback destinations will be limited to my computer and tv and my cellphone.

Computer...Full Hd without compression
Tv..Through my 5.1 dvd player(probably blue ray in d future)
...so have to convert it to PAL DVD format(720x576 with 25fps)
My phone...mp4(same resolution as iphone)

Yes i know about the professional recording standards, i m not looking at anything even close to it. My major outcome of the whole kit should be good quality video with decent, acceptable sound.

Previously i had a concert in my locality and i used my cellphone to record the concert...i hv htc evo 4g which records at 720p with mpeg4 codec. The video turned out very good but the audio was simply not acceptable. Muddy,Noisy and full of haze and mic overload..So this time around i want to rectify that mistake and buy a camcorder kit that will overcome this problem and produce good quality audio which will be pleasing to hear.


Heres what i think i will be getting.

Canon hf m300 $650
Canon bp-827 $115
SDHC 32gig class 10 $50
Simple tripod $20
Canon 5.1 mic $150
Headphones preberably under $30

Looking forward to your suggestions. If there is any other better camcorder with a few more bucks..i would like to consider that as well.

Your time and valuable inputs to this thread are very highly appreciated. Thank You.

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I think your kit
Apr 10, 2011 2:34AM PDT

is fine - but I would not worry about the 5.1 mic. Seriously. If you (and the camcorder and mic) are in the crowd, you will get crowd noise even with a shotgun mic.

I *think* you will be much better off positioning yourself between the left/right performance speakers (rather than one side) and either using the camcorder's built-in mics or a stereo mic from Audio Technica, NRG Research or RODE. At worst, ditch the 5.1 mic and get a better tripod. The key is using the manual audio gain control.

A better tripod has more value than the 5.1 mic. Get the 5.1 mic in a few months if you think it has that value - I don't think it does.

Read the camcorder manual. The SDHC speed rating class requirement is in there. Class 10 is overkill but will work.

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Aftermarket Battery ?
Apr 10, 2011 4:42AM PDT

Thanx...
the $20 tripod is fine for my needs.http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000V7AF8E/ref=s9_bbs_gw_d0_ir01?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=17SXTSKE5CYY2MEHQXE6&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846

i was thinking of getting an after market bp 827 compaitable battery..they are nearly 1/3rd the price of og battery and perform equally well..http://www.amazon.com/BP-827-Rechargeable-Intelligent-Battery-Camcorders/dp/B003IQOU22/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1302460550&sr=1-2

i can save a lot by getting an aftermarket battery and spend the savings on the tripod and headphones.

I have a few questions.
1. I see the canon hf s200 which is nearly twice the price just has one difference from the m300 that is better lens and better performance in low light. Can i buy an external lens set like the ones sold on ebay and expect some better low light performance ??
2.If i manage to get the direct feed in from the mixing device in d concert...will my camcorder be able to take that..i dont see any line in port on the cam. Or does the feed in wire plug in the same port as mic ? (it will be really difficult to get the feed in but if i manage then it will make a lot of difference to my recordings.)

and well i think i should stick to the 5.1 mic...if i spending $150 i m atleast getting something more advanced(5.1) as compared to the rode which is just mono Happy

and ya one more thing...right now i m using only 2.1 speakers on my comp..will it cause any sorts of problem while playing the recordings on my pc (except that it wont sound like 5.1) ?

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I have read too many
Apr 10, 2011 7:45AM PDT

problems with non-manufacturer batteries. The ONLY place I would even consider would be the B&H private label "Pearstone" brand. Good luck with this. I do not recommend it at all.

Low light performance is related to how much light the lens lest in and how much light the imaging chip can deal with. In each case, larger lens and larger imaging chip is better. This was discussed in an earlier post. Adding a lens won't increase the diameter of the lens or increase the imaging chip size.

DO NOT GET A BOARD FEED UNLESS THE ENGINEER IS SENDING A DISCREET AUDIO MIX JUST FOR YOU. IF YOU GET SENT WHAT IS IN THE MONITORS, IT WILL SOUND LIKE GARBAGE. IF YOU GET SENT WHAT IS IN THE MAINS, IT WILL SOUND LIKE GARBAGE. BEST PRACTICE: DO NOT DO IT UNLESS YOU KNOW AND TRUST THE AUDIO ENGINEER. IF YOU INSIST ON A BOARD FEED, MAKE SURE THE ENGINEER IS OK WITH IT WEEKS BEFORE THE SHOW AND GET TO THE VENUE HOURS BEFORE THE SHOW STARTS WITH YOUR OWN CABLES. DO NOT DEPEND ON THE ENGINEER TO HAVE ANYTHING FOR THE CONNECTION. THAT IS NOT WHAT THEY GET PAID TO DO.

Seriously, do not even consider this. Think about it... Drums, guitar, bass and keys have their own amps. Vocals, do not. The mains send out audio that is mixed with the amplified and non-amplified music. You will hear LOTS of vocals, and little of the drums, guitar, bass and keys and in smaller venues, you will miss lots more. I don't know how I can be any more clear about this. Do not do this.

You asked my advice - I suggested you do not need the 5.1 mic. It is your money.

If recorded in 5.1, playback in stereo-only will sound fine on your computer. You are posting to YouTube. There is no surround, there, either. Like I said, since you (and the mic on the camcorder) are in the crowd, crowd noise will be recorded. 5.1 is unnecessary and the money can be used for something more productive - like a better tripod or useful headphones. A $20 tripod will be broken in about 2 shows. Maybe 4.

The ".1" is the subwoofer for bass. That audio at the low-end is yanked from the audio signal using a crossover that sends only the low frequencies to that subwoofer. You do not need to record the ".1" separately. The mids and highs are sent to the other speakers.

Have fun. Wear ear plugs or use headphones that have noise canceling. Inexpensive earphones without noise canceling will not let you hear what is being recorded because the audio from the concert will be too loud.

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Alert
Apr 10, 2011 9:33AM PDT

B&h has a bp827 compataible battery for $90 and its only 2100mAh as opposed to og canon which is 2670mAh..so i will be better off getting the og one. Most of the reviews on amazon for after market batteries are the ones who just tested the battery for a day or two..this again doesnt give me all the confidence to buy them as i dont think they will hold up well in the long run..but again as they are only 1/3rd the price..i might give them a shot.

THANK YOU FOR THE BIG ALERT AGAINST TAKING THE DIRECT FEED Happy Since, i have very limited knowledge about this..i thaught that direct feed will be my best option..first..no noise..second all mixing stuff already done by the audio engineers. I thaught that the feed wire will be just a 3.5mm connector type..like you have line-in for the pc...never knew there are various complex aspects to it. Thanx for the clarifications. I'm staying away from them.

So now priorities are
1.the camcorder
2.good quality tripod
3.mic..not sure..best will be to check them out at the mall.
4.headphones.

Also, some of the reviewers of m300 and s200 model at amazon talk about chosing the panasonic hdc tm700 over the canon models..each one has their own reasons.

Apparently, i found a site which has the cheaper(SD card ver as opposed to TwinMemory on amazon) PAL version of this camera for $760...if you have the time..please go through this link http://www.digitalrev.com/en/panasonic-hdc-sd700-8490.html#pdm_desc_dot

Would you suggest me to get this over the m300 for a few extra bucks. Both of them hv different sensors and i m really a novice and having no experience i dont know what to choose. My other requirements of mic and manual controls are fulfilled by both. If you think i will see improvements in video/audio quality with the pana then i don mind buying it for a few extra bucks.

Cant thank you enough Sir...Greatly appreciate your concern and interest in this thread. Have a great day. Cheers!

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specifications
Apr 10, 2011 9:39AM PDT
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At this point,
Apr 10, 2011 11:04PM PDT

the differences between the Canons on your short list and the TM700 are just a coin flip.

You are now nearly 2x your original budget. For a "few extra bucks" re-read my first reply in this thread to you..

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VFM
Apr 10, 2011 11:42PM PDT

Yes i know that Sir, from $450 to $750 know. Its only because i didnt know at that time that the cheap ones are not really worth and will not serve the purpose. Since this is a one time investment i want it to be VFM. Spending more now and getting a quality product will be better. Need it to use it for atleast 5 yrs from now.

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m300 vs sd700
Apr 10, 2011 11:57PM PDT

If it was Canon hf m300 vs the pana sd700....which one would choose..(considering the $100 difference)

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Comparing the
Apr 11, 2011 3:00AM PDT

Canon HF M300 and the Panasonic HDC TM700 (from what I can tell, the North American version of the SD700) is not really a fair fight.

The Panny is the "flagship"; the M300 is not. I have not used the Panny, but the 3-chip imaging sensor array is always helpful. A more relevant comparison would be to the Canon HF S series, but I don't know the pricing where you are. I have used - and still have - a Canon HF S100. I like it for what it is, even with the AVCHD video compression. The comparison is basically down to lens filter diameter and imaging chip size. Larger is better in either case.

Honestly, at this level, I would be getting a Sony HDR-HC9 or Canon HV40 and not anything using consumer AVCHD compression.

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Penny is just $100 more expensive.
Apr 11, 2011 3:40AM PDT

i dont mind the consumer AVCHD compression. I have checked the raw mts files posted by various users on file sharing websites and i m happy with the quality. HC9 and hv40 both are tape types...to be honest i dont like tape types.

Difference between the penny and m300 here is only $100. Penny being $100 more expensive. Your final take- penny or the canon ?

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(NT) coin flip
Apr 11, 2011 10:33AM PDT