Need camcorder with audio input jack

Thanks for the lead on the canon ZR800...plus it is much cheaper than other cameras. Strangely I called canon at 1-800 OK Canon and they did NOT tell me about this camcorder!

be advised that none of the Canon ZR family have manual audio control...

The least expensive (new) camcorders - of which I am aware - with a mic jack and full manual audio control are the Canon HV20, HV30, Sony HDR-HC7 and HC9.

Thanks again for yet another suggestion. I will be out shopping today and see if I can turn up any of those models! This forum was much more helpful than the 1 800 numbers for the manufacturers

Does anyone make a hard drive model WITH a mic jack (for better audio) so I can record plays etc. for under $500 or so? It does NOT have to be HD.

I bought a JVC Everio GZ-MG330A and I like it but why no mic jack or DV/firewire output? They cost like $10 to add!!!

But the Canon FS10, FS100 camcorders have a mic-in jack... they are both Flash memory camcorders - not hard drive based, do standard definition only an transfer using USB - and MSRP is within your budget.

Before you go any further, you might go to the Canon web site and download the manuals - having the external mic jack is only part of the "improved audio". You also need manual audio control. The Canon ZR800, 900 and 930 miniDV tape based camcorders have mic in jacks too - but none have manual audio control.

As far as I know, the least expensive camcorders with both mic in jack and manual audio control are the Canon HV20, HV30, Sony HDR-HC7 and HC9... They all do standard definition (4:3 and 16:9) and high definition (only 16:9 by default).

OK, "improved audio" is good but why do I need "manual audio control" and what does it do? I just want to be able to pick up mic audio off of a wireless mic or sound board into the camera to get clear speech from a play.

I prefer a HDD so I can record at least a 2 hour performance and I don't think an affordable card can do that.
Thanks.

That is, you can't exactly put the camcorder on stage, then just a mic connection (and external mic) will work. An alternative is to use a "field recorder" that does just audio, then replace the video's audio with that from the field recorder.

From my experience, I have seen (and heard) plays at all levels from kindergarten through college and Broadway... I have taped many of them (though not those on Broadway). The audio can be extreme - real loud or real soft (and everything in between). The manual audio control will provide the mic gain control that will allow you to pick up the quieter moments and adjust down when it gets really loud - which can result in some muddy, useless audio.

Getting audio from a sound board (when the camera does not have audio control) can be interesting. You want to be connected to a discreet AUX out - not the same connections as the mains. This will keep the camera's audio circuit from getting overdriven.

*Most* performances I've seen, filmed, etc. normally have an intermission at about 50 minutes. That is when you change tapes. Tapes can be 60 minute or 80 minute SP tapes. Don't use LP.

In the mean time, The Canon cams I listed are the only ones I know of at the price level you are looking at. And it isn't that I'm a Canon bigot or anything - I use Sony gear...

HAVE FUN!!!

"retro reeds accordion cowboy sweetheart" sounds VERY interesting...

Hi!
Thanks for all the info on camcorders....I did post our first video on youtube.co. Type in: Retro Reeds Accordion and it will come up. There was a slight hum from the mic. I think that it is because I bought a radio shack mono mic rather than stereo? Not sure, but will experiment with this and maybe see what other inexpensive mics are out there.
Thanks again!

Im bassicaly looking for the same thing except I will be video taping my band live so it will be a lot of loud music. I have some friends who will borrow me a camera but they do not have audio in features. How would I go about matching up recorded audio with the video because I can record the audio on a digital studio board and use the camcorder for our show.

If you press record on both and don't hit stop until the show is done, the first thing after hitting record is clap. That is what the old Slate/clapper days of film did. Today it is more for effect - or to sync timecode (if the slate is so equipped).

Since we don't know what you are editing with, it is a bit difficult, but most video editors have some method of multiple audio tracks... when you are close to synchronized, there is echo. When the echo is gone, you are in sync.

As for pulling the audio from a digital board - cool - if it is the mixer the band is using EVERYTHING must be connected with a DI box or mic'd - and do not use the house mix. Use your own mix using a couple of AUX send channels (stereo)... otherwise, you will have lots of vocals, and not much of anything else.

actually I don't have any editing tools or software. Im trying to get an idea of a decent one thats not outragously priced because Im just doing this for myself not for money. I plan on using a regular digial camcorder, that doesn't have an audio input, and then bringing my digital recorder and hooking up the aux outs to my audio recorder from the soundboard and mixing it a bit later. Then I want to sync the audio and video. I do have a computer so if you know of a decent editing software to get that would be great. Or maybe the software with the digital camcorder will work. Would it be easier to record with the camcorder on mute so it doesnt pick up any audio? Im guessing that would make things a little easier.

In my Macintosh environment I have done audio replacement and editing with iMovieHD - which comes bundled with the Mac (so, "free"):
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=14690627

In this particular example, camcorder mics (actually, the stationary safe shot camcorder used internal mics; the other camera used an external mic - though that was not necessary) were used during the session and everything on stage was connected (direct box or mic'd) to a DigiDesign ProTools set up. After the session, the audio engineer mixed the ProTools captured audio and sent it to me a few weeks later. While I was waiting for the audio mix, I was editing the video. The final mixed audio was posted at YouSendIt.com and I downlosed it. This AIFF was brought into iMovieHD, sync'd with the existing audio, the audio that came in from the camcorders was muted and the final video and audio was exported as various computer readable compressed video file formats for posting or online archive, to DVD for playback on a "regular" DVD player and back out to a miniDV camcorder as the miniDV tape is the long-term archive. The camcorders used were a Panasonic DVX100B and Sony HDR-HC1 - both were in standard definition, 4:3 aspect ratio.

In this example,
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=7382678
it was a live, single camera, shoot that used an Audio Technica AT-825 connected via BeachTek DXA6-A to a Sony HDR-HC1 - so lots of camcorder and XLR adapter manual audio control was available - and the house audio was captured - no external capture/replace. Because the camcorder (and mic) were on the right side of the room, you may notice the audio is slightly heavier on the right audio channel. I *could* have fixed this in post-production or done a better job during the capture... an alternative would be to place the stereo mic in the middle of the room (but that could get in the patrons' way - unless I had a way to suspend the mic from the ceiling, which I could not do).

I very rarely ask the audio person for a direct board feed. It is a hassle, you need the right cables and it assumes the audio person knows what they are doing because they need to mix the house and the discrete AUX sends very differently.

The ProTools rig allows for each instrument to have its own track - but is a pricey solution that many folks don't have access to. It can provide "studio quality". The part that makes this pricey is also the part that you need - that is, being able to get the information from each individual audio source onto is own track... then that data feed (usually via firewire) populates the "master" audio file. Mackie has good boards that can do this, too - and they have software - for the audio capture part. Again, the individual track for each instrument is the deal.

If you are merely capturing stereo, there is nothing to "mix down" later - other than perhaps some correction and normalizing and fade-in and fade-out... and adding applause. If this is the case, then pretty much anything with manual audio control and stereo mics will work just fine. That is where the mic placement comes in... and connection to a field recorder like those from M-Audio or Zoom or Marantz or Tascam or Fostex or Sony... Some of these include a built-in stereo mic that is quite good, so no additional parts/cables/$.

I prefer picking up the audio with the camcorder (whether it is used in the final video or not) - during the audio sync with the external audio source, when you are off a a frame or two or three (or more), there is "echo" so when that echo goes away, you know the audio is sync'd.

In the film world (or REALLY high end cameras that do not capture audio), they sync by using timecode... Newer slates connect to the audio field recorder with a cable and the timecode is recorded to the video or film. In post production, they mach up the timecodes from the audio capture and video capture device. In the film world where the film camera does not use timecode, they use a slate to mark the scene, and when the clapper hits the slate is when the audio capture device records that audio... I really don't think you want to (or need to) go down this path. Some Fostex field recorders can use time-code enabled slates - most low-end field recorders cannot connect to a time-code enabled slate.

When I got FinalCutPro, it came bundled with a bunch of software - including FinalCut (mostly for video editing, but provides some audio editing capabilities), SoundPro (very heavy audio editing) and some other tools for making titles, DVD authoring and effects. All the apps in this post run on Apple Macintosh OSX. I expect there are similar tools available for other operating systems. I also use Audacity (with is open source and cross platform) for some audio editing...

Anyway.... since I don't know the environment you are in, and I don't know what audio recorder you are using, my ability to make recommendations is limited... but to make things easy, I would start with the easiest: Don't use the PA mixing board into your audio recorder. Get the house audio using well placed, decent, condensor mics (for stereo) or a decent stereo mic and connect them directly to your audio recorder. If you want "studio quality" audio and control of the individual instruments/audio sources, you are getting WAY more complex, will need more gear, more skill more tools (hardware and software)... and that means more $$$.

I would use some decent mics but I dont have any extra condensors to use. Iv recorded our live shows with decent results from the board to my roland 1680. Im not looking to make a high quality cd or dvd just a better mix than what I can get using just a camera. And then I will video tape with a lower end sony camcorder. All I want to do is sync up the video and audio. Just kind of new to doing this. I have a dell xps 400 computer. thanks for the info

Just need to try the sync for the first time. It is not tough to do. I think even Microsoft MovieMaker can bring in the external audio and mute the "internal" audio... MovieMaker started getting bundled with XP (SP2). Between MovieMaker (importing your video) and your "decent results from the board to (your) roland 1680" (and importing that audio to your computer), you should be good to go.

Audacity is very useful (and free)...

Awesome. I'll be giving it try soon. Thanks for the help

I read some blogs from 2008 about Camcorders and audio input feeds. I saw that if a Camcorder has a MIC Jack that it might be a suitable alternative. The cost of machines that have the A/V I/O feeds is more than my budget can bear. ($2000 and up) But my thing is that we are running the wireless mics thru a sound mixer but we also want to have the sound from those mics to come into the camcorder and be apart of what being recorded.. Is that doable? What camcorders would work?

for a camcorder with audio in...

The low end has camcorders with a 1/8" stereo mic jack for audio in but no manual audio control. If the person at the sound board sends a discrete AUX send just for the camcorder mix, you'll be able to control the audio level in from the board. If you are recording bands, this is NOT a recommended method unless EVERYTHING is mic's or connected using a DI box. The camcorders in this category include the Canon ZR900, ZR930 and ZR 960 for miniDV tape recording to standard definition; The FS series for flash memory standard definition and the HF series for flash memory high definition.

The medium range has camcorders with 1/8" stereo mic jack for audio in with manual audio control. This includes the Canon HV20/HV30/HV40 and Sony HDR-HC9 miniDV tape camcorders. All can do DV or HDV.

Then comes the Sony HVR-HC1000U. Shoulder mount looks impressive, but the lens is small as is the imaging chip. The 1/8" stereo mic jack for audio in with manual audio control makes this a consumer camcorder in a large format - and part of the pro line.

Next up is the standard definition Canon GL2... Larger lenses and imaging chips allow this camcorder to do well in low light.

All of these camcorders are each less than $2,000 - even if you add an XLR adapter.

In either case, pro-grade mics or taking a board feed typically means having XLR connectors. Use an XLR adapter from juicedLink or BeachTek. They also have mic gain control knobs for more granular audio control.

Don't forget a sturdy case and good tripod.

I guess the part I have to truly resolve is since I am going thru a sound board and separate wireless mics is to split the feed from the board to both the cd recorder and the mic jack on the camcorder.

requires

1) A mixer that has an Aux-out (in addition to the Mains out that the audience hears).

2) A person familiar with using that board to use the Aux sends so each of the destinations (in this case a camcorder - and now a CD recorder) gets its audio.

The purpose of a sound board/mixer is to take multiple inputs and allow their relative audio level controls so appropriate audio balance comes out of the the mains for the audience, allow connectivity of special effects and compressors etc, and provide for other outputs like stage monitors for the talent, transmission to other places, etc.

The mics will always connect to the sound board. Many low-end and/or small boards do not have multiple outs... Most large boards do.

Those with decent Aux-out capabilities use XLR connectors. Manu of them also have a 1/4" stereo headphone jack that *could* be used for the same purpose. If you use the Aux-sends, then you will need to convert the XLR cable end to 1/8" to get into your camcorder. There are a couple of ways to do this - my recommendation is to use an XLR adapter form juicedLink or BeachTek. If you use the headphone jack, you will need a stereo 1/4" from the board to stereo 1/8" to the camcorder. This assumes the audio engineer is not using the headphone jack for headphones.

Since I have no idea what the venue is, what the audio source is, what requirements are for possibly hearing the audience comments/questions, the board being used, the mics (other than they are wireless mics) being used, what the other recording requirements are, the skillset of the audio engineer, among other things, it is pretty difficult to provide any more assistance.

Since the CD recorder is picking up the audio, why bother with splitters? Import the audio from the CD recorder and use that to replace the audio captured by the camcorder. That way, if the board mix - however you connect - fails, you will still have the audio from the camcorder. Consider not using the board mix for that camcorder, but running a mic from the camcorder to the front of the main speakers and recording they audio into the camcorder that way.

The cords running from the wireless mic base can't be used with an XLR connector. They are just regular stereo jack (probably 1/4")at the end and we are running that into one of the channels on the sound board. What I am guessing has to be done is to split the feed from the wireless mics to the sound board and to the camcorder, also using an adapter that will fit into the mic in outlet on the camcorder.

The venue is a small room (20 x 30) and we are using the equipment for recording cd's and dvd of church services. I can send the information regarding the make/model of the sound mixer, but there's not much more to it than that.

that coming off the board is how you will go. You can use splitters wherever you want. It will work to a point. If you are using wireless mics with 1/8" jacks, they are either REALLY good Sennheiser or Sony (pro grade) ENG wireless gear which use mini TRS connectors or cheap, low-end, consumer wireless lavs in FM or some other shared frequency.

If the wireless mics are getting to the board - and the board is feeding some PA speakers, I stand by the recommendation of not using the board. Just mic those PA speakers and don't worry about the rest of the stuff at the board.